There are an endless number of things to examine when comparing schools. For some, flexibility in curriculum is very important - whether that means a BA vs BFA, or just the opportunity to take additional classes in one particular area (dance, voice, acting etc). Others are happy to follow along a set (and often successful) curriculum and have everything all in place. There is no “right” path- but hopefully you can find (and be accepted to) schools that work they way you want them too. And viewpoints may change- after all, these kids are young. My D did not think flexibility was important during her audition season (I was the one who thought might be a good thing.) Now she loves it- and mom was right- who knew?
Clearly it is not possible to graduate early at many BFA programs due to the locked in nature of the curriculum. I was simply pointing out that it is possible where my kid went to school, even though she didn’t do it.
@toowonderful, my d took college algebra at her HS through a four year university. It satisfied the math requirements for every school she applied to. I agree that AP is in general a better bet but most of our arts kids aren’t huge fans of math and would rather be dancing or singing than slogging through AP calc problem sets ;). My d had 27 hrs of AP/DE credit to start college (including having satisfied all English) so she is in much better shape than most of her classmates. Way more time to do shows!
@MomCares Northwestern will accept dual enrollment credit if the credit was not used to meet high school graduation requirements. The university provides a form for the high school administrators to fill out and certify. We know kids attending Northwestern that have gotten credit. NYU has the same rule.
@Dusing2 - Thanks for that added info! Both of our kids’ dual enrollment classes were for HS credit, as were their AP classes, but they only got college credit for the AP courses.
In my experience NYU evaluates post secondary/dual enrollment on a case by case basis - there “may” be more to it than whether or not a student took classes for graduation requirement.
My D arrived at NYU last year with 3 types of college credits. During orientation she met with her academic adviser, and they discussed what worked/didn’t work
- Credits from NYU summer program she did in HS - no problem with those transferring ( 8-} ) However, if she had chosen another school I wonder if they would have transferred.
- AP credits - all accepted as she scored 4+ on all tests (NYU, like many academically competitive schools, does not take 3s) some replaced certain classes (as said before AP Stats/ APES filled math/science) some were elective credits (5 on AP lit did not get her out of WTE - nothing does....) Here was tricky part #1 - she took AP Euro online (not offered at her HS- I teach it at my school, and taught her, but did not want to be teacher of record for a variety of reasons) not as an "AP class" but via a local university. She got an "A" (and it was not a grad requirement) BUT her adviser told her they were offering her credit b/c she had the AP score, if she had only had the online class they wouldn't have accepted it.
- Credits from her PA HS - junior and senior year you earn 6 credits from a local CC. Denied on basis of rigor of source (the CC I assume) No big deal there- had not expected them to transfer.
So this is a long example of the fact that there can be more than one layer to the whole process. BTW- my D looks back with extreme gratitude on her HS academic schedule. She will have finished all academic requirements by the end of this year. She could have easily graduated in 3 years- BUT has chosen to do all 4 (which I fully support) so that she can pursue additional classes opportunities, she has SO much more freedom in her college program b/c of the work she did in her HS program. Soapbox over 
Hmm this thread is making me think twice about D taking dual enrollment classes this year. she has a dual enrollment (w/ local cc) class next semester in Public Speaking. You have the option of making it a dual enrollment class or not. Not sure if she should pay the $ if it a lot of schools don’t accept them because of class rigor… Any thoughts on a public speaking? Wonder if she’ll need that in college? I would think so but I’m confused!
i would say it depends on your list of schools - in my experience, the more academically selective a school is, the more “strings” with any sort of credit. For example (and correct me if I am wrong) most/many Ivies don’t accept AP credits- do they accept post secondary/dual enrollment?
Dual enrollment classes through community college can be tricky. When my S was considering dual enrollment, we concluded it would be more beneficial to take courses at a 4-year institution in the event he ended up out of state or at a private school. I wasn’t worried about in-state public schools (many have articulation agreements in place) but was not at all sure what would transfer from cc to an out of state/private institution.
That’s what I figured @artskids . The private schools will be picky I bet & most of the schools on our list are private. Well it’s ok cause she doesn’t have to choose dual enrollment for this class . It’s just an option
NYU, Elon, Michigan and others confirmed (in writing) that my kids’ dual enrollment classes from a community college would transfer. Some of the schools accept only credit that was not applied towards HS graduation requirements, some accept all. My kids had credit from community college, 4 year universities, AP, and CLEP. They applied to MT programs and non-MT. They applied to state schools that are not very picky and to private schools that are considered academically selective. We spoke with admissions at every school they seriously considered to clarify exactly which credits would transfer, and when we were seriously considering a school we got that clarification in writing.
Years ago I called admissions at numerous selective schools (Harvard, Stanford, MIT, SMU, Duke, Boston College, UChicago, Northwestern, etc) and also many state schools (UVa, Texas, Ohio State, UCLA, Colorado, Michigan, Alabama,etc) just to get an idea of what college admissions thought of dual enrollment vs AP. I had some very good discussions with admissions officers. It was very time consuming, but well worth the time. I would recommend anyone considering these options, to considering just calling several offices (anonymously) and asking. They can be very helpful. A few of the admissions people I spoke with not only answered the questions on DE vs AP, but they also guided me on whether to use community colleges or universities, which courses to take, when to take them to have a more impressive resume’, letters of recommendation, etc. Some were willing to spend lots of time, some not so much.
@Dusing2 - Were Ivies willing to take dual enrollment/post secondary credits? It has not been my experience with my students, but I have not had direct experience. Again, it may be b/c the college my school has always partnered with is not very rigorous- my school uses it b/c it’s cheap. Ohio has an entirely new program this year (college credit plus) which is causing a fair number of bumps. In the end, it will make the process smoother- if you stay in state (and/or public) but transitions are always a challenge
I absolutely agree that speaking directly to an admissions person at specific schools is the best way to find out what their current policies are.
Not sure if it’s helpful, but here are some excerpts from the Application for Northwestern University Credit for College-Level Course Work Completed Prior to Graduation from High School…
http://www.registrar.northwestern.edu/forms/grad_forms/140929_high_schooL_college_credit_form.pdf
Can any of you “experts” out there speak to @theaterwork’s “Public Speaking” class? Even if accepted as credit, would it count for anything except an “elective”? Not sure that it would count as “English” or “Humanities”. Any other thoughts? Certainly, having experience in public speaking is valuable for any student - or human being, for that matter.
@toowonderful Cornell and Penn both accept dual enrollment. Harvard does not typically accept it, but ther are exceptions (we were told). Interestingly, several of the courses that my kid took as dual enrollment would not have received any AP credit at Penn, particularly the history and political science courses. So at that Ivy, students are definitely better off taking dual enrollment courses in things like US history rather than AP US history.
@mom4bwayboy and @theaterwork very few MT programs that we looked at required public speaking and I don’t know of any that would use it as a substitute for English. Some schools will take a DE or AP English credit, but we found that English comp was the one course that most schools preferred to teach themselves. They all like to do it their own way.
I think it is very important to point out that in post #45 when @toowonderful explained that her daughter’s dual enrollment credits were denied on the basis of rigor, it was a bit misleading. They were arts courses. It does not surprise me at all that a performing arts program would not accept those credits. Many MT programs will accept AP credit for things like English, math, history, science, but not Music Theory. The same is true for dual enrollment and arts courses. We know a kid that transferred from Boston Conservatory to Carnegie Mellon, and CMU wouldn’t even accept BoCo’s credits! Likewise, schools like MIT will accept many dual enrollment credits, but if you are an engineering major they Are very picky things like physics and calculus, and would be likely to accept most any liberal arts course.
I never expected ANY of the BFA programs my D applied onto accept HS arts credits. I only mentioned it as part of an illustration of having more than one kind of credit “on the table” as a student is enrolling in college- and that different schools have different policies about types of credits. I would never have expected any of the BFA programs my D applied to to have accepted them- as mentioned above, it is extraordinarily rare for arts credits to transfer. I am sorry to have “confused” or “misled” @dusing2. It seems that my powers of explanation have failed in that regard
For what it’s worth, the dual-enrollment credit that our kids couldn’t get at NU was, in both cases, for foreign languages (4th year Japanese and French).
@mom4bwayboy, FWIW, Speech is one of the gen ed requirements at Montclair. There was some talk of trying to get it dismissed for theater majors, but it is still there. My daughter actually had a fun teacher and enjoyed the class.
NYU did not accept 6 college credits for Anatomy and Physiology because the class was taught in the high school. They did not care that D received these credits after passing a Pearson test and that the credits were issue by an accredited college. Many nursing programs accept these credits, but NYU wouldn’t even though D is an art major.