<p><a href=“Salary Data - Career Center”>Salary Data - Career Center</a></p>
<p>New results have been posted. Unfortunately, the CS average and median reported salary fell well below the national average as well as fell below the salary of the class of 2011 and 2012.</p>
<p>Anybody have an idea as to why the significant drop occurred?</p>
<p>Well, just looking at the data and the fact that the “average” pay for CS majors dropped from the class of 2011 and 12, my first questions are:</p>
<p>1) how many CS students reported? If only a tiny number reported, then if there is a low salary, then that will drop the avg. (last year the average starting salary was $63k for Cs majors…which is very good for this region since COL is low here). </p>
<p>2) Are some of these new CS grads “self-employed” (working free-lance or whatever) and just getting themselves started?</p>
<p>The fact that the “range” goes to $70k, that suggests to me that the higher paid jobs are out there, it’s just that maybe too few reported or have made other choices. </p>
<p>There has to be a logical reason…companies aren’t suddenly paying less. </p>
<p>I did wonder if the number of graduates was too low for the statistics to have any real meaning. Having the average and the median be identical is a bit of a flag.</p>
<p>The national average for new CS graduates is reported as $59-$60K.</p>
<p>honestly, i would like to see more data than what is shown here. another school’s reports that i look at gives a report similar to this and also a report that contains a line for each graduate (anonymously, of course) that was placed and where they were placed and in what position. so, if dow hired two grads, there would be two entries for dow. this could be helpful to future grads in knowing who some potential employers might be.</p>
<p>i would also like to know the number of students that are included in each category (20 civil, 5 computer science, 10 chemical, etc.).</p>
<p>So much depends on having kids “report back” and so many don’t. I had to remind S2 to contact the Premed Advising office each time he rec’d a med school acceptance to let them know. Unless the student “reports back” the school just doesn’t get the feedback. </p>
<p>@MikeWozowski - I agree. UA’s reporting/data is anemic. Other schools do provide quite a bit more data. I am sure UA has this information but they choose not to share it for some reason.</p>
<p>The survey response rate is 73% which isn’t bad.</p>
<p>i am not talking about data from students who don’t report back. i am talking about collecting and reporting better data from the ones who do.</p>
<p>even this “new” report isn’t very timely, coming out almost an entire year later.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>No, it’s not almost a “year later”. The data consists of those who have jobs SIX MONTHS after graduation. Such data can’t be collected at the time of graduation. That would be silly to expect such info AT graduation.</p>
<p>So, this report would be based on data that was collected in the Nov/Dec timeframe. So it is timely.</p>
<p>ok. you are right. i am wrong. happy now?</p>
<p>Does the data get collected from a standard survey that is sent to each graduating student in every discipline? Perhaps the issue is the survey itself. It may be too generalized. I would like to actually see the survey because that would shed some light on the statistics.
I think that a specific survey is needed for each major’s department with additional focused questions pertaining to the sub fields in that study’s major. I don’t see how you could accurately form an opinion on the data without reviewing the collection process first.
With an almost 75% response rate, if the data is lacking, then the initial survey is probably lacking, and poorly conceived. I don’t see any reason for Bama to hide any of the data collected except for names.
I am assuming that there is a lack of additional data because of the process.</p>
<p>MikeW: Six months after graduation seems like a reasonable time frame for data collection to me. After all,then the data needs to be collated etc. In addition, I think we have to remember that most students do not graduate with jobs in hand. Perhaps that is expected in engineering but that is certainly not so in other disciplines.</p>
<p>“I don’t see any reason for Bama to hide any of the data collected except for names.
I am assuming that there is a lack of additional data because of the process.”</p>
<p>Hope it didn’t seem that I was implying they are trying to hide data. I think they are over summarizing it. They know how many of each discipline graduated, responded to the survey, etc. That is useful information and it would be nice if they published it.</p>
<p>Who is hiring would also be useful but they may or may not be collecting that information. I think they should be. Some schools do publish this info as well as Mike stated.</p>
<p>I do see that they break the data down in the engineering report, but I still wonder if it is a generalized survey that goes out to all graduates or was this survey specifically sent only to engineering graduates. I was thinking that just because the data issued in this report is about engineering, it could still be collected from the entire graduation class and the other divisions report separately.</p>
<p>I for one, didn’t think anyone was implying that data was hidden, just that it wasn’t published.</p>
<p>There are two different reports generated: CBA = Commerce and Business Administration and ENG = Engineering. Back in 2008, the reports show break-down of placement % at graduation, 3 months after graduation, and 6 months after graduation. Not sure if they don’t collect these data now…or just don’t report them anymore.</p>
<p>OK folks talking to WAPacker and MikeW as well as others that may have a negative spin “UA’s data/reporting is anemic”.</p>
<p>Honestly???</p>
<p>The eng classification has 7 categories and 153 of the 219 students reporting (73%). Of these 153, 21 are seeking employment and 35 are furthering their education.</p>
<p>Some categories are obviously smaller than others. Probably a few mettall/mat eng but very tight cluster salaries.</p>
<p>There are some reasonable explanations on number fluctuations and other variance.</p>
<p>Some categories may not have that many reporting, and it is better to present the data the best way - I do not see a problem with this data reporting. If they reported numbers in small categories, respondents or their companies may feel their salary information is not anonymous enough.</p>
<p>Yes companies do want their salary offers kept anonymous/confidential WAPacker.</p>
<p>Each category does have the range. </p>
<p>I would challenge that someone may decide to take a less challenging job or want to live in a particular place and therefore on the low end of the CS range ($34,990), or maybe is working in a small start up and has lots of job flexibility (maybe continuing a graduate degree while working, maybe has a great benefits package). </p>
<p>Not every student that finishes a CS degree or an eng degree has what a particular company is looking for. When the pay is high, the expectations are high. I expect some great students continue getting a MBA or advanced STEM degree - no control over that, but some of those students would push $$ numbers up on salaries if they went into the job market.</p>
<p>Picking on UA when they are presenting data that can never be perfect (100% reporting across colleges that have exactly the same student body with exactly the same courses and exactly the same student work experience…)</p>
<p>Some areas of the country have much higher COL. So a CS person getting a $55,000 salary in B’ham or Mobile or Montgomery or Huntsville is much better off than a CS person living in a higher COL area.</p>
<p>My student will be in civil eng, starting UA in the fall. She had a personal finance class in HS, and she saw that the national avg for civil eng is $ 60,000 (UA’s range on this last class is $30 - $90,000 with median $52). My brother received his civil eng degree from UW-M, and had quite a bit of experience working summers in the field. When he got out of school, he got a job with a small city - often a starting point in that field. Some years there is a lot of hiring, and some years you are lucky to get a job. He eventually worked another job and then got in a great company where he is now an owning partner. His starting salary 6 months after graduating was on the low end because he was working for a city, but also probably not working more than 40 hours a week. In his current job he is putting in many work hours but he is being financially rewarded (unbelievably high $$).</p>
<p>I have a nephew graduating in CS from TN Tech. He has 12 mo of co-op experience with a big high tech co. and had a paid summer internship with an insurance company. He already has more than one job offer. $$ is one consideration. He may take a lesser paying job to live where he wants and the company he likes the best, the work he most likes, whatever.</p>
<p>I think UA may have found they can get the best ‘snapshot’ accumulating data at the 6 mo mark. Also there are personnel costs with this activity, and UA is constantly having to adjust what programs and things they do to advance UA and provide the best college opportunities for students.</p>
<p>It is always good to play devil’s advocate but criticizing a school on this May 2013 College of Engineering First Destination Report is not well thought out by a few here on CC IMHO.</p>
<p>Here is an example of a comprehensive placement report (issued by Carnegie Mellon):</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cmu.edu/career/salaries-and-destinations/2013-survey/pdfs-one-pagers/SCS%20Post%20Grad%20Handout%202013.pdf”>http://www.cmu.edu/career/salaries-and-destinations/2013-survey/pdfs-one-pagers/SCS%20Post%20Grad%20Handout%202013.pdf</a></p>
<p>I wish that all schools would provide such data. Make the data available and allow people to then decide how, and if, they want to use it. The more transparency, the better.</p>
<p>@SOSConcern - Yeah, I know only UA cheerleading is allowed on this forum. But yes honestly.</p>
<p>dadinator posts a great report from CM and I too would like to see that kind of reporting from all schools but I don’t think UA’s graduating class is large enough to maintain anonymity if they provided that much data. Although, I am left to only speculate on that as they don’t tell me how many cs grads responded. Most schools provide data at the 6 month mark so no criticism from me on that. It seems to me that they could provide data on par with their peer schools. Here are reports from 3 other state schools that are on my son’s radar.
<a href=“https://www.cco.purdue.edu/about/postgraddata.shtml”>https://www.cco.purdue.edu/about/postgraddata.shtml</a>
<a href=“http://careercenter.tamu.edu/guides/reports/”>http://careercenter.tamu.edu/guides/reports/</a>
<a href=“(Archive) Career Employment Starting Salaries | Engineering Career Services”>https://ecs.osu.edu/statistics/salaries-wages/career-employment-starting-salaries</a></p>
<p>None of these reports are at the Carnegie Mellon level but they are more informative than UA’s report.</p>
<p>If you don’t want people to speculate provide enough data and transparency that they don’t have to</p>
<p>As for the lecture on salary and cost of living, I am well aware of all that.</p>
<p>Oh and I have no idea where you came to the conclusion that you needed to enlighten me with this statement.
“Yes companies do want their salary offers kept anonymous/confidential WAPacker.”</p>
<p>WAPacker the reason I made the last comment was because of something you said on this thread. Sounds like you have a son considering schools and you are not exactly thrilled that people like UA so much. Or maybe you think some of the CC posters on this thread are too pro UA or have rose colored glasses on.</p>
<p>Some get everything they want at a college, then have negative things to say. I did comment about devil’s advocate. Maybe it helps stimulate positive communications. </p>
<p>I am more thrilled with UA since Dec because dau got Presidential Scholarship and max Eng scholarship with her last chance ACT exam. It is where she wants to go and is now comfortably affordable. My older dau is at UAB with great scholarships, she is doing great there and loves it. We are happy that our kids are thriving.</p>
<p>I explained some from my position and it is really difficult to sometimes read something and really understand exactly what others are thinking or what conclusions or assumptions they are making.</p>
<p>Maybe if you have specific questions, call and talk to the correct UA departments and staff that can answer any specific questions you have about the data. People on CC can talk and maybe bring in some of their knowledge, but the numbers are the numbers and the data from this particular UA chart does have limitations.</p>
<p>I am not a negative person, so I probably need to re-read what I posted…</p>
<p>My H got his eng degree from MSOE and he got a great education, but even back then he had to live very tightly because they charged three tuitions a year (four if you went over the summer). Family had 3 in college when H was in college and one more going soon. H and I are both originally from WI. We lived in Texas and I got a graduate degree from TAMU - I liked my school in WI (small private women’s in Milw, Alverno for undergrad), I liked TAMU, and I liked UAH where I also got a graduate degree.H did have to take out some student loans, but we were good workers/savers and paid off in first year of marriage.</p>
<p>There just are some really negative people posting - I didn’t mean to be if I came across as negative WAPacker.</p>
<p>Looking at CS pay out of a particular college and choosing a college based on that, or at UA and worried about salary offers? That seems to be a big concern for some posters…</p>
<p>I am not negative about UA but I do ask questions that apparently make some uncomfortable. I have been in contact with the UA career center as well as CS department about some of our questions. Some of the questions I have got answered and some I have not. On this forum one hopes to gain from others perspectives and experiences. I am an engineer and analyze the heck out of everything ( my wife says overly so) and do my best to understand all of the pro’s and cons of every significant decision. If I was negative on UA, I would not be posting anything on here.</p>
<p>I believe I had previously seen that your daughter had received the Presidential. I am glad that she is going to be able to go where she wants and it sounds like UA is a great choice for her. Congratulations!</p>
<p>WAPacker: LOVE the link w TAMU career stats! That is the best laid-out, easy-to-use site I’ve ever seen and I can read between many lines there and make all sorts of inferences <so to="" speak!="">. It was easy for me to go down the entire eng’g list, for example, and see who got hired at the company my S wants to work for (and that was grim news, let me tell you, but we will soldier on). The economy has 2 more years to sort itself out: COME ON AEROSPACE INDUSTRY!!! My S is coming!!! ;)</so></p>
<p>^ I agree that the TAMU site is well laid out and easy to use. My only complaint there is that they do not publish a breakdown of percent employed, percent to grad school, percent unemployed, or a survey response rate.</p>