MCAT, ECS, Research-- getting into med school, Laundry List of Quest. Thanks

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Hey I have a couple of questions:</p>

<p>1.) I know Organic Chem, Chem, and Physics are a portion on the MCAT, but I was wondering...In college, you tend to cover more of the mathemetical, memorize these formulas, know these equations for your final exams when you are especially allowed to use a calculator..But I thought MCAT had an emphasis on "conceptual" problems and no calculator is permitted. Do you sometimes feel that the college courses tend not to help you for the exam. For Example, remember in high school...someone can get like a 5 on AP Physics B or C but still end up with a 720 on the SAT II Physics (purely conceptual)...?</p>

<p>2.) For ECS such as hospital volunteering and research...should you start hospital volunteering/shadowing during freshman year? Should this be on weekends?</p>

<p>3.) For reserach, people tend to start during Sophmore summer...so does sophmore summer (summer after sophmore year), full junior year, and then junior summer count as a good deal of research? Also, what do med schools prefer---> Research done with a professor at your college who gets grants from NIH....or actually being part of those 10-week reserach programs at research institutes like Howard Hughes etc.....?? I mean research is research. And I dont know if I can get all hardcore and do stuff out of my college without sacrificing so much time.</p>

<p>4.) Is it ok to take Organic Chem after my freshman year during the summer? I mean that would relieve a huge load because I would clear my Chem requirements. Then I plan on taking Genetics and Physics sophmore year and I hope this sounds like a good idea because I do not plan on being a science major, but at Notre Dame, in addition to the premed reqs, they want you to take 3 additional semesters of science. Thus, as a course schedule, does this sound manageable and legit?</p>

<p>Freshman year: General Biology and General Chem
Freshman summer: Organic Chem (I am doing this because most freshmen are not offered research during this time so basically, why sit at home?)
Sophmore year: Physics and Genetics/Molecular Biology
Junior Year: Only vertebrate Physiology during Fall sem
= My PREMED Reqs and Notre Dame gives a "special" Premed Major degree for this in addition to the Classics major I hope to pursue. </p>

<p>5.) Because of this, I can prepare for MCATS all junior year because I would have Physics out of the picture and I feel that its weird to take physics junior year and wait when you can do it earlier. Personally, it seems as if physics is like the hardest course you are saving for last when you could just get it done earlier..</p>

<p>6.) Do you think if you are applying early decision that it is kinda tough to take MCAT during at the end of your junior year in April and then again in August. I mean you get only 2 chances and then you have to apply to med school and I feel that its so limited especially when you had so many chances for the SAT back in high school. Thus, if I follow my course plan, could I take the MCAT the August before junior year since I basically finished everything?</p>

<p>7.) Finally, do Med schools give much importance to all those medical certificates such as EMT, CPR, etc..? Are they difficult to obtain during college?</p>

<p>Thanks. Sorry that my thread is long but I am only posting just this single thread!</p>

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<p>well I can't answer all of your questions because I'm studying for an ochem midterm right now but I'll do as many as I can...</p>

<p>1) With Organic chemistry, you memorize A LOT, but I have realized with the third (last) quarter of organic chemistry, you MUST think conceptually. Maybe it's the way my professor teaches, but we think very conceptually</p>

<p>2) Start volunteering at the hospital as early as you can...I didn't and I regret it. Try to get more clinical tasks rather than boring clerical work.</p>

<p>3) I was talking to a medical school student and he told me the best research is the one where you basically search for articles pertaining to your hypothesis and write a paper, rather than laboratory research. This shows you can piece together ideas. Also, you MUST get hardcore and do research. I have learned that the more activities I have to do, the more efficient I get at studying.</p>

<p>4-7) I wouldn't be able to give you good advice.</p>

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<p>Pertaining to question 6, starting in 2007 I believe they will be changing the MCAT so that it's a bit shorter and offered more often...so you may not have to worry about only being able to take the MCAT in april or august.</p>

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<p>1) The MCAT does have calculations that you must perform w/o a calculator. And you do have to memorize formulas so that you know which ones to use. But as you said it is more of a conceptual test, so it's more important to understand WHY, rather than how. While the idea of doing mental math with extremely large and tiny numbers may seem frightening, understanding the concepts and what is reasonable and expected for a given problem can help with eliminating answer choices, and with heavy use of rounding most actual calculations are limited in scope, maybe two or three steps until you can figure an appropriate answer. </p>

<p>The biggest thing though is to realize that the MCAT is really testing CRITICAL THINKING, not how well you know physics or biology. The science topics are just vehicles to reach the more important ability to think critically.</p>

<p>2) Definitely try to do some shadowing and volunteering early, but it's not absolutely necessary to start the moment you step on campus. It's just important to have done something hospital related at some point for an extended period of time (6 mos+).</p>

<p>3) I never did any research. It can be good, but from my friends and stuff, it's another one of those things on the list to mark off. It doesn't have to be health research either. I have several friends who did their research in psychology, another in political science and another in econ. They're NOT expecting you to be looking for the cure for cancer or how to end HIV. The important thing I think when it comes to research is that you are able to explain what you did, what you learned, and why that is relevant. You could do a lot by explaining how you learned so much just about the process...</p>

<p>Personally, I think that working with a professor and developing that relationship is better than the summer program, because that becomes a great letter of rec.</p>

<p>4)It sounds reasonable, if you can get both semesters of organic in the summer...which I doubt. Nebraska is the only school I know that has multiple sessions (it's complicated to explain) of summer school that would even allow for the taking of a 2 course sequence. Even then Organic wouldn't be set up for completion of both courses.</p>

<p>Also, you'll need to throw Biochem (2 Semesters) as it is a requirement for many medical schools (plus one of the few courses that actually transfers directly to the medical school curriculum).</p>

<p>5) Yeah, I suppose you could spend all year preparing for the MCAT, but be real with yourself, are you really going to spend time every week doing so? Unless you're taking a prep course that starts in October, it's unlikely. Not saying you can't or won't, but just be honest with yourself.</p>

<p>6) Like TwylaBloo said, the MCAT is going to computer, and being shortened, and will be available through as many as 20 three day windows a year in which you can take the test. However, just because it is being offered more often, realize that this is not the SAT, and you can't just take it as many times as you want. Further, while many people take it twice, if you can avoid that, you'll really want to. Dont' go in thinking that your taking the first one for experience. </p>

<p>As for timing, I reccomend that you take the test when you can do the best on it. Where in your schedule is the period at which you can really focus on the test. For me that was the summer after my Junior year, I just worked as a server at Old Chicago, and studyied for the MCAT... </p>

<p>If you are set on applying early decision, you absolutely can't take the August MCAT. You won't get your scores back soon enough to know your level of competitiveness. Applying ED is another step up from normal selectivity of med school admissions, so you need to be up there. Most ED process though, if you get rejected do not allow you to interview a second time, which is something to keep in mind. </p>

<p>7) EMT might be impressive but only if you've actually worked as an EMT and can talk about the experience. Basic Life Support is not going to matter at all. Most schools will have you get certified in BLS very early on in the first year of medical school, and no one really cares if you've had it before (say if you were a life guard or something). I do believe that BLS certification is a common state or maybe even federal requirement for you to go out on rotations. If not a law, it probably is a part of accreditation processes. I have no idea how hard it is to get EMT training/certification.</p>

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<p>1.) It depends, obviously, on how your college course is set up. In my experience, organic chemistry and biology were very helpful, while physics was not.</p>

<p>2.) Do as much as you can, whenever you can. There's no particular reason for you to start freshman year - but if you have the opportunity, do it. (At Duke, the hospital is much closer to where sophomores live, so it is better to do it as a sophomore and up.)</p>

<p>3.) Yes, a year and a half of research sounds very solid. I can't imagine that where you do your research matters very much. Pick the lab that gives you the most contact with your PI (Primary Investigator, the head of the lab).</p>

<p>If you are interested in a research-intensive school (which would imply that you are interested in a research-intensive career), then yes, you need to do quite a bit.</p>

<p>4.) I was always told that taking summer courses at your home institution was fine. Rumor has it that things are shifting away from that, which would be a good change to the process. If these rumors are true, you should not take your premed requirements over the summer - but I have never heard them from any official source.</p>

<p>BRM is right, though - at least take a semester of biochem.</p>

<p>Oh, and BRM: at least Duke would allow you to take organic chemistry in two sessions and complete it, so that's one school.</p>

<p>5.) The MCAT does not require a year of studying. Think about a time window of roughly four months. And physics on the MCAT is very elementary. If you had a strong high school background, you don't need to take physics at all. (This presumes you take Kaplan and have an excellent teacher. Then again, we know all Kaplan teachers are excellent anyway. :))</p>

<p>6.) You should NOT apply early to medical schools. This is a bad, bad, bad idea. With undergrad, you may only apply to one school early but may apply to other schools regular; with med schools, you cannot apply to any other schools at all until after you hear from the school you applied ED to. This throws off your timing, since they are likely to tell you just a couple of weeks (if that!) before the "deadlines" for other schools.</p>

<p>As rushed as that is, it gets worse: by this time, many medical schools have finished interviewing the most competitive portions of their pools and given away many of their spots! That means you are then up against a large number of kids for vastly fewer spots, and it becomes clear that you are either a slacker or applied ED somewhere else (why else would you send your apps in five months late?).</p>

<p>The only circumstance in which you should apply early is if you are absolutely sure that one school is by FAR your top choice, and you are several index points above their average. I have only heard of this happening once.</p>

<p>7.) No idea.</p>

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<p>Thanks a lot for your advice. I really appreciate your advice and experience during premed. I definetely do not plan on applying ED.</p>

<p>But by the way, what do you guys think of my course schedule? Assuming that my only priority will be Organic chem after freshman year, I think I can manage the work and it is also offerred at ND as a full course not a single semester...:
Freshman year: General Biology and General Chem
Freshman summer: Organic Chem (I am doing this because most freshmen are not offered research during this time so basically, why sit at home?)
Sophmore year: Physics and Genetics/Molecular Biology
Junior Year: Only vertebrate Physiology during Fall sem</p>

<p>2.) Plus, why so much the emphasis on BioChem? I thought the Organic Chem and Biochem could be subjects that can be substituted for one another to fill the Chemistry requirement?</p>

<p>3.) By the way, is Kaplan really worth it? I mean remember when we all self-studied for the SAT? Can't a lot of practice for MCAT be sufficient?</p>

<p>4.) Plus, how is the weightage on the Writing Section of the MCAT?</p>

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<p>Several schools require Biochem and encouraged by many more. I seem to have lent my MSAR book to someone or maybe I got rid of it when I moved last summer. BDM might be able to give you a sampling of which schools do have a biochem requirement.</p>

<p>Biochem is NOT organic chem. Biochem is going to be glycolysis and gluconeogenesis and metabolic pathways. It's going to be greater depth in explaining DNA synth, transcription, translation, and DNA repair. A good genetics course will cover some of this too, but also hit on other topics. Organic is a completely different beast...</p>

<p>Only Johns Hopkins of the quick survey of several medical schools websites allowed substitution of the 2nd semester of Ochem with biochem. Remember though that the MCAT says a full year of Ochem is "necessary" to be prepared for the test..</p>

<p>I don't have a problem with your supposed schedule.</p>

<p>I teach for Kaplan so I'm biased. But with the MCAT going to computer based testing - something that most of us are not familiar with at all, I think that Kaplan might be even more valuable. Kaplan has a ton of strategies that it has developed for other CBT exams that will help you get the best score possible...</p>

<p>The writing sample doesn't matter unless a school happened to use it as a tie-breaker (which would mean that someone is nearly identicle to you in every single way...). Maybe if you scored really low it might raise a red flag, but other than that, you really shouldn't worry about it. In fact next year essays are going to receive one grade from a reader and another from a computer program...so really how important could it be?</p>

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<p>Irish,</p>

<p>Being a non-teacher for Kaplan, I'm in a position to argue more forcefully than BRM is. Take a course. Period. Medical school is going to run you a lot of money, and an extra $1599 to ensure that you have more options in choosing a school is well worth it. Remember - half of the kids who take the MCAT are so dissatisfied with their score that they don't apply to medical school. Yet another half of the kids remaining probably should have joined them. Kaplan brags that its kids improve by ten points, an improvement I realized almost completely. Of course, some of this would happen with self-studying, but the MCAT is a very different way of thinking relative to undergraduate courses. The MCAT requires a lot of fast reading, a lot of outlining, a lot of critical thinking... there's no substitute for people who have a tried-and-true approach to this test.</p>

<p>And you happen to have caught me while I'm at home, 3500 miles away from my MSAR. I'll try to flip through when I get back tomorrow.</p>

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<p>4) I've heard that taking Orgo during the summer is frowned upon since the class is less competitive then.</p>

<p>7) getting EMT certification during the school yr is very rough...i took a class during sophomore year from october to december which was 12 hrs of class a week....add that to 6 other classes and it was very rough. I'm sure it'd be less difficult if you do it over the summer but yes, if you just get certified and do nothing with it then u just wasted your time. There is SO much experience that u dont get in the class that u get while being an EMT.</p>

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<p>4) I've heard that taking Orgo during the summer is frowned upon since the class is less competitive then.</p>

<p>I don't think that is true Shraf. I took orgo during the summer and it was even more competitive than the regular year. I am thinking it was like this because only motivated students take the class in the summer.</p>