MCAT, GPA, ECs...but what about course choices?

Parents Forum
41

<p>*Check this out: according to Association of American Medical Colleges, students who major or double-major in Classics have a better success rate getting into medical school than do students who concentrate solely in biology, microbiology, and other branches of science. Crazy, huh?" Princeton Review *</p>

<p>I think it’s all that Greek and Latin they take…LOL…Bama advertises that their Classics pre-med majors have a 100% admittance rate into med schools and law schools. </p>

<p>As for ECs…your D’s EMT work sounds exciting and impressive. :)</p>

<p>MyThreeSons…thank you for all of your insights. If you have anything else to add, please don’t hesitate. It’s good to hear about those who’ve made it into med schools. :)</p>

<p>* The nature of the courses taken in undergrad didn’t seem to have an effect on my son. He was an econ major (no double major, no minor) who took the minimum required classes and did fine in the application process. He had to eliminate certain schools becuase he never took biochemistry and others who required some other classes. But there were plenty let to apply to. He made sure to check the requirements for his state school, which included a year of psychology!
4. He applied to around 15-17, got 8 interviews and four offers. He had strong grades, a good MCAT, and probably average to weak ECs and recommendations.
*</p>

<p>Where did your son go to undergrad? </p>

<p>Re: WashU comments…I can understand a med school having some concerns about whether a person went to an undergrad that is knowingly weak in the sciences, but I wonder to what extent WashU has the concern? </p>

<p>I will mention the Psychology class issue to my son. I don’t think our instate med schools require it, but another school might. I know he’s taken BioChem, so that’s not an issue.</p>

<p>Like many others, my son has AP credits for both semesters of Bio and Chem, so he’s taken the next level courses in college instead of retaking the Bio and Chem classes. (of course, he’s also taken Orgo I and II). Will that be an issue anywhere? He’ll have several extra 300/400 level bio and chem classes.</p>

<p>(boy, after reading all your tips, I really don’t want him doing math as a second major…as a minor, fine…but not as a second major. My older son is an Applied Math major and I know how rugged those 400 level math courses are…Ugh…I just don’t think they’re necessary for a pre-med student…and could end up being a negative.)</p>

42

<p>Wow…didn’t know DE doesn’t have any med schools. Hmmmm… Can’t think of another state that doesn’t have any med schools. Perhaps Rhode Island only has a private med school at Brown? Anyone know?</p>

<p>Keil…does your state have any kind of agreement with another state so that your residents can get in-state rates for med school?</p>

43

<p>* uhhh…mine drove past the hospital a couple of times*</p>

<p>LOL…since mine’s a boy, he’s had his fair share of emergency room stitches. He also has the “every boy” trademark of a scar under the chin.</p>

44

<p>^^ There’s a consortium-ish agreement with Jefferson Medical College, which is private. Likewise, Widener Law School has a campus in DE even though the main university is in PA. I don’t think there are any tuition agreements.</p>

45

<p>LOL! Didn’t know that the scar under the chin was a “boy trademark”…D2 has a lovely star-shaped one there. (She spent the night before Homecoming her junior year in the ER getting her chin stitched up.) She also has a lovely assortment of scars on both knees and both elbows. (She cannot resist riding her mountain bike across loose sand over paving, despite the inevitable face plant.)</p>

<p>And D1 has more hands on clinical experience than most M2s–or so the M2s have told her.</p>

46

<p>mom2collegekids:
My son went to WashU undergrad. I don’t think the medical school’s comment on factoring in the undergrad school of applicants was focusing on the strength of an undergrad program in science. It was more an acknowledgement that your undergrad GPA needs to be considered in the context of the school you went to. </p>

<p>One comment on ECs, because of some of the extreme examples above. My son spent a month one summer volunteering at a local hospital where he wheeled patients around. Then, through his undergrad, he shadowed an emergency room doctor one day a week for a semester. That was it for medical-related ECs. Now, as a result of this, he was not competitive for top 25 medical schools (in my view this was one factor), despite having excellent grades and a very solid MCAT (only one interview at a top 25 school and a waitlist). However, he got four acceptances at very fine middle-ranked medical schools with pretty minimal ECs. If you’re O.K. with you state medical school or other middle ranked schools, you don’t need save world ECs.</p>

47

<p>

Yep. IIRC,</p>

<p>Alaska, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming residents all get some love from U of Washington by agreement. BTW, do not apply to U of Washington if you are not from a state within that agreement or are MD/PhD… </p>

<p>Maine has a deal with Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Ummmm…I’m thinking about others :confused:</p>

48

<p>Which state med schools are more welcoming to OOS students?</p>

<p>When I looked at Wikipedia’s listings for med schools by state, it was interesting to see how old (or young) some of these med schools are. I guess it’s no accident that some of the oldest ones are also some of the highest ranked ones. [List</a> of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States]List”>List of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>*I don’t think the medical school’s comment on factoring in the undergrad school of applicants was focusing on the strength of an undergrad program in science. It was more an acknowledgement that your undergrad GPA needs to be considered in the context of the school you went to. *</p>

<p>Hmmm…I wonder it that could backfire a bit since some top schools have notorious grade inflation. But, I can see what you’re saying…a 3.6 from an Ivy is going to be perceived as better than a 4.0 at a low tier regional public or private.</p>

<p>*My son spent a month one summer volunteering at a local hospital where he wheeled patients around. Then, through his undergrad, he shadowed an emergency room doctor one day a week for a semester. That was it for medical-related ECs. Now, as a result of this, he was not competitive for top 25 medical schools (in my view this was one factor), despite having excellent grades and a very solid MCAT (only one interview at a top 25 school and a waitlist). However, he got four acceptances at very fine middle-ranked medical schools with pretty minimal ECs. If you’re O.K. with you state medical school or other middle ranked schools, you don’t need save world ECs. *</p>

<p>BUT…what’s with all the fuss I’m now hearing that doctors and hospitals are wary of having volunteers and shadowing students around because of privacy concerns? </p>

<p>My son is going to Nicaragua over Spring Break with physicians who will be doing volunteer work over there. Hopefully, that and other similar ECs will be nice to put on his resume. </p>

<p>Didn’t know that the scar under the chin was a “boy trademark”…</p>

<p>H and I both come from families with 4 boys, so we kind of suspected that the scar under the chin was a given. However, the day after son had his chin stitches, we were at a church social and his “injury” was being discussed. I asked all the men to lift their heads…EVERY ONE had the under the chin scar - even the priest!!! LOL</p>

49

<p>[List</a> of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the_United_States]List”>List of medical schools in the United States - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>Maine’s deal with Dartmouth includes a tuition discount? UDel has a very limited agreement with Thomas Jefferson University in Philly, but it may be just through their Medical Scholars Program. Or maybe there’s more–that’s why I asked!</p>

50

<p>Keil, I don’t think there is a tuition discount for the Maine thing at Dartmouth. Just a plus for admission.</p>

51

<p>Actually under the PSEP (part of WICHE), residents of Wyoming and Montana are considered in-state at all the other participating WICHE states (CA, AZ, NM, CO, UT, OR, WA, ND, HI and NV)</p>

<p>[Professional</a> Student Exchange Program (PSEP) | Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education](<a href=“http://www.wiche.edu/psep/medi]Professional”>Professional Student Exchange Program (PSEP) | WICHE)</p>

<p>Idaho and Alaska opted out of the agreement for medicine only and have made other arrangements for its residents to attend medical school. </p>

<p>And Native Americans and residents on the Navajo Rez are considered in-state at UNM regardless of whether they actually live in AZ, CO or NM.</p>

52

<p>

My guess is that it may be regionalized or localized. No problem volunteering in Memphis in hospitals and in-home palliative care visits or shadowing or volunteering in Central Texas. Not saying it should be this way, just saying it is that way. So, ymmv. </p>

<p>BTW, IMO a student shouldn’t expect that a short-term out of country experience will make a up for a dearth of clinical experience/exposure stateside. Remember, from LizzyM at sdn, “If you are close enough to smell patient’s, it’s a clinical experience”. </p>

<p>There is no requirement I know of that the clinical experience do anything but expose you to the practice of medicine. The trick is to find something you actually enjoy doing. </p>

<p>My kid would choose working at the ER at the county hospital pushing a guerney (:confused:) occupied by a gunshot victim or meeting with an old Delta woman dying of cancer in her run-down home over shuffling papers at the suburban hospital every time. She would call so excited/moved about what she saw/did. For her, it was “fun” or “affirming” or sometimes just “really really sad”. She did it for the experience of doing it. I know. I know. But as I’ve said before, she’s wired funny. </p>

<p>For others, the same activities were boring drudgery and they were just putting in hours for the app. She was able to write about her experiences in apps and talk about them in interviews. I think her excitement and interest showed them something about her and may have helped her get admissions results beyond her “numbers”.</p>

53

<p>Here is the program with U of Washington I was mentioning. <a href=“http://uwmedicine.washington.edu/Education/WWAMI/Pages/default.aspx[/url]”>http://uwmedicine.washington.edu/Education/WWAMI/Pages/default.aspx&lt;/a&gt;

</p>

54

<p>

</p>

<p>According to several doctors we know, HIPPA precludes public and federal hospitals (like the VA) from allowing students to shadow or volunteer in areas where they may have access to confidential patient information (you know, like their name…)</p>

<p>D1 asked to shadow a family friend who is prof of surgery 2 years ago and was told that HIPPA and insurance concerns had caused the hospitals he worked at (he’s on staff at 2 different ones) to forbid all non medical-trainees from observing patient procedures.</p>

<p>OTOH, when I had wrist surgery this summer, there was a college student shadowing my ortho–and the kid was present both in the OR and when I had office visits after surgery. But that was at a private hospital and I had to sign a privacy release before the kid could enter the room.</p>

<p>So it could be a publicly funded vs. a privately funded thing. Federal regulations seem to weigh more heavily on hospitals where they derive much of their funding from federal sources.</p>

<p>D2 has done all of her recently volunteering (in neuro-rehab) at a private hospital.</p>

55

<p>I agree that the HIPAA laws are what’s causing the concerns. It’s nice to know that some of the private hospitals might be willing to work around these issues by having patients sign.</p>

<p>I’m hoping that my son can shadow his orthopedic surgeon since many of those kind of issues aren’t too “personal” and people won’t mind having a student watch their broken arms or legs getting reset. :)</p>

56

<p>My D did her volunteering/shadowing at hospitals receiving federal funds. She had no problems finding opportunities. So… it seems there is a great disparity in what your student will face in trying to gain clinical experience and it is very interesting to hear about the differences. But , at least at present, whatever the barriers, schools expect you to hurdle them.</p>

57

<p>*IMO a student shouldn’t expect that a short-term out of country experience will make a up for a dearth of clinical experience/exposure stateside. Remember, from LizzyM at sdn, “If you are close enough to smell patient’s, it’s a clinical experience”.
*</p>

<p>Oh I agree. I just think he may get to see and do things that he may not get to see/do stateside. But, I completely agree…it will not be enough. :)</p>

<p>He doesn’t mind the blood and guts stuff. He has an iron stomach.</p>

58

<p>Oh, gosh. I wasn’t being critical of the choice to go out of country. I think it can be great depending on the program. </p>

<p>But there is some backlash spoken of on sdn about folks doing an expensive “African Aids Safari” and expecting a big boost and not getting it. It was more that situation I was talking about.</p>

59

<p>My D won’t be applying till next cycle, but the transportation costs are already giving me nightmares. Zip cars, train or the Peter Pan bus will be fine for the NE, but for flights besides the ticket price she needs to tack on $120/round trip for the shuttle to the airport from her campus. Yikes!</p>

60

<p>Yup. Try to get to Dartmouth from Memphis. That was a joy to plan. I think she got in at midnight. Come to think of it, several of her trips had stupidly late arrivals or early departures because she wanted to make it to at least a few of her classes. lol.</p>