McGill GPA

Colleges and Universities A-Z McGill University
1

<p>Hi Everyone</p>

<p>Please excuse the fact that I know several threads similar to this one already exist but, as they have yet to answer the questions that have been plaguing my mind for awhile, I decided to start my own.</p>

<p>Alright, so I'm a prospective U0 McGill student accepted to the Faculty of Science as a Computer Science major and I have a significant concern. How feasible is it to achieve a high GPA (e.g. 3.6 to 4.0) in McGill sciences?</p>

<p>As I eventually plan to apply for med school (with bioinformatics as my fall-back undergraduate field of study), I am drawn very heavily to McGill's joint bachelor's degree in Biology and Computer Science. However, while I am relatively satisfied with the notion of applying computer science to medical research in case I'm rejected from medical school, my biggest fear is that, by pursuing a degree at McGill, I will effectively minimize my chances at earning the appropriate grade point average for medical school admissions.</p>

<p>Now, in anticipation of claims that "grade deflation exists at all major Canadian universities", I should note that I am also considering applying to a small, semi-local university where I am reasonably certain it is in fact easier to obtain higher grades (ie. less competition). </p>

<p>Nevertheless, there are certain aspects of McGill which appeal to me greatly. Abundant research opportunities, an excellent location, solid MCAT preparation, and a reputation which would carry much clout for an undergraduate degree are all strong pros in McGill's favour. But I'm still not sure if its worth it...</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

<p>(Thanks in advance for taking the time to review/address any of the above information. Any advice/insight is hugely appreciated.)</p>

2

<p>Heisenberg27,</p>

<p>Here’s my take on McGill thus far after doing a year in the biology program (also thinking about applying to med school) and then transferring to Honours Software Engineering within the Faculty of Science. I’ll be starting my third year in September and really feel as though I’ve found the right field of study.</p>

<p>U0 classes aren’t particularly difficult – if you’ve done IB or AP and you aren’t planning to send your scores to McGill in order to redeem them for credits and course exemptions, then you’ll most likely have less difficulty than the other U0’s. I took PHYS 101 and 102 in my first year and did well despite having very little experience with physics in high school.</p>

<p>If you start in the Life Science stream, then you’ll quickly realize that about 60% of the U0’s you’re interacting with are seriously considering med school. This starts to dwindle off after the first year.</p>

<p>I’d seriously consider the Biology/CS track – there are quite a few professors in the CS department that are recognized for their work in Bioinformatics. They teach some very interesting seminar-like 400 and 500 level courses. </p>

<p>In regards to computer science, I can tell you that it’s not easy. I warn you against taking two many COMP courses in the same semester – each course has at least 4 assignments, sometimes a final (group) project, a midterm and a final exam. Multiply that times 4 or 5 and you have a very hectic semester ahead of you. There are some very, very bright students in computer science that manage to pull off the 4.0 but most of them have a great deal of pertinent programming experience prior to taking some of the basic 1st and 2nd year courses. You’re competing with people who have been programming since they were 14 or 15. With that in mind, I’ve noticed a strange phenomenon in regards to GPAs in computer science. I know quite a few people who have GPAs below 3.1 and quite a few others who have GPAs above 3.6. For some reason, it seems there’s barely anyone in the 3.1-3.6 range. That speaks to how the material overlaps and if you have trouble with a particular aspect of one course, it’s bound to come back and haunt you in another course. </p>

<p>I’d also highly recommend into taking a 396 COMP or BIO course – these are individual research projects with a professor in your chosen department. This might really help you determine whether or not you want to go into research and if you choose to pursue a medical career, these courses give you an advantage over other applicants who haven’t done any independent research.</p>

<p>The most important piece of advice I can give you is not to treat your undergraduate degree as a “stepping stone” to medical school. </p>

<p>If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me. :)</p>

3

<p>Hi qcmaudelemaire,</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I don’t have 15 posts yet so apparently this site won’t let me PM you for some reason (I really don’t get that but ok, whatever). </p>

<p>Anyways, first off, I want to thank you immensely for the extensiveness/thoroughness of your response as you’ve given me a great deal to consider with regards to McGill and I genuinely do appreciate that very much.</p>

<p>So, on a comparatively down-to-business note, I wanted to know how plausible it is for someone with no prior experience in Computer Science (disregarding some dabbling in basic Java to ascertain that I was, in fact, interested in computer science) to succeed in the program. I have no qualms with working to earn that 3.6 and above but I do fear automatic relegation to the range below 3.1 primarily on account of my inexperience. </p>

<p>Also, I should note that I have never had the opportunity to participate in any IB or AP classes as these options do not exist in my local area. I have done very well in the base courses I have taken (98% high school GPA with strictly academic timetable) but it’s hard to judge what this means with respect to standards at other Canadian high schools. In particular, I am worried that I may be at a huge disadvantage because I’ve never taken an AP course before.</p>

<p>Another thing I’d wondered about was how to go about gaining a research position. I notice that, in the COMP/BIO program, an undergraduate research project is incorporated into the curriculum (so I assume this implies some level of guarantee that one will receive a research role) but what is the process for getting a professor to take you on for a given field of study. Also, how significant are the “instructors” in the research process because, to be frank, I’ve not read very good things (ratemyprof) about the CompSci research instructors and I’m unsure if that’s anything to worry about.</p>

<p>Finally (and thank you for your time if you’re still reading this btw), I was curious about how homework functions in CompSci. I mean, I am HEAVILY interested in computer science so maybe I won’t mind as much BUT normally I hate courses that are primarily homework-based. Personally, I find that I work best when I can focus on studying/reviewing the course material as opposed to spending hours doing practice questions all afternoon (even in math). </p>

<p>Whew, ok, well thanks again for taking the time to look over all my trivial high school anxieties but I am very grateful for your help. It is nice to see someone with a similar mindset to myself (ie. interested in software but still strongly considering medical school) because I’ve yet to encounter it until now.</p>

<p>Regardless, good luck with your junior year.</p>

<p>Best regards,
Heisenberg27</p>

4

<p>Hello again Heisenberg27!</p>

<p>I’m glad I could help :slight_smile: </p>

<p>In regards to getting a decent GPA in computer science without any experience, as long as you work hard you really shouldn’t have too much of a problem. I’m currently above a 3.8 and at the beginning of the year I had absolutely no experience in CS apart from a basic Java course. Just keep in mind that you’ll have to compete with those who have the experience. I highly recommend becoming friends with them and collaborating on assignments. You’ll learn a lot and your grades will improve as a result.</p>

<p>If you haven’t participated in an AP/IB courses, don’t worry. McGill’s freshman year program (or U0) in Science requires you to take PHYS 131, 142, CHEM 110, 120 MATH 140, 141, and optional BIO course. Here’s what I’d recommend taking, as you are interested in med school:</p>

<p>First semester take PHYS 131 and BIOL 111, MATH 140, CHEM 120.
Second semester take PHYS 142, BIOL 112, CHEM 120, and MATH 141.
You can find out more about these here: [B.Sc&lt;/a&gt;. Freshman Program Requirements | Faculty of Science - McGill University](<a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/science/student/newstudents/u0/bscfreshman/requirements]B.Sc”>http://www.mcgill.ca/science/student/newstudents/u0/bscfreshman/requirements)</p>

<p>*Note that if you feel strong enough to take MATH 150/151, you’d be getting three requirements completed in stead of two. These courses cover Calc 1, Calc 2 and Calc 3 material over two semesters. I took Calc 3 (MATH 222) in the summer.</p>

<p>As a CS student, if you don’t have enough experience in an object-oriented programming language, you’ll need to take COMP 202. You’ll also be required to take MATH 133 at some point. Remember that you have the option to take summer courses and I highly recommend doing so – they’re a lot of fun and Montreal in the month of May is absolutely beautiful.</p>

<p>For research positions, don’t worry. I know quite a few of the CS profs personally and I can tell you that most of them are fantastic. Don’t always trust RateMyProfs – people who have some serious grudges tend to overrule the few good reviews. I’d recommend going to the the Mercury Course Evaluations on Minerva (you can find the link under the Student tab). These are much more reliable and you can select a year that the course was taught or just search for a particular prof. Getting a prof to work with you is pretty straightforward – talk to those who you might be interested in working with and generally one will be wiling to supervise you (as long as you don’t require funding as this is becoming sparse throughout the university). Some profs will be very diligent in checking your progress and others won’t; all in all it’s an independent research project so it’s assumed that you’ll be disciplined enough to work on your project regularly.</p>

<p>In the classes that I’ve encountered thus far, assignments can take up to 50% of your grade. These are generally lengthy programming assignments which put to test the knowledge that you’ve acquired in class. All of my courses in CS this semester had final exams worth around 50% of my grade. My issue with heavily-weighted exams is that these highly depend on the speed at which you can process a given question. (For me it’s tough to answer proof-type questions in a very limited amount of time.)</p>

<p>I’m actually no longer interested in medical school – when I switched into software, I didn’t see myself pursuing medicine any longer. But you definitely aren’t alone; I’ve seen many CS students take the MCAT and do reasonably well.</p>

5

<p>Hmm, interesting</p>

<p>Well thanks again qcmaudelemaire. Lots of advice to chew on. </p>

<p>Great to know that a high GPA is attainable because I really am ready to work for something I’m interested in. And, speaking of which, the hefty focus on assignments in CompSci is also alright as long as the prescribed tasks are provocative and worth doing (as it sounds like they are). Tedium is usually the thing I don’t like about homework.</p>

<p>Still, its all well and great to work hard for something your interested in but I do hope Computer Science doesn’t excessively inhibit one’s ability to experience Montreal? Whichever program I choose, I want to make sure that I can effectively balance work with social life and still get good grades. Specifically, I’ve sacrificed socialization on account of schoolwork far too much in the past.</p>

<p>On an unrelated note, I may have misunderstood the physics bit you mentioned. From what I’d gathered, I thought CompSci students had an option between the PHYS 101/102 track and the PHYS 131/142 track (especially since you mentioned you’d done PHYS 101 and 102 in U0). In particular, I’ve had a love/hate relationship with physics so I must confess that I have mixed feelings about your suggestion to do the more challenging PHYS 131/142 in first year. But I’m open to being proved wrong.</p>

<p>Regarding your recommendation to split my workload by enrolling in summer courses, I must admit that it does sound awesome. Nevertheless, I should point out that my province is pretty far away from Montreal and I had planned to return home to work during the summer. Particularly, cost has already been something of a hassle in considering attending McGill (as I’ve had to budget plans to cook on my own in Solin, get an apartment in second year, etc. etc. to make ends meet). I realize that your situation may be different (i.e. your username qcmaudelemaire implies that you may be from Quebec but forgive me if that’s a false assumption), however, unless there’s some practical way to balance an internship or job with summer courses, I’m really not sure if its a good idea to add on another expense when I could be earning money. (Though, its hard to tell what’s best in the long-term…)</p>

<p>Either way, your advice has been a major factor in swaying me towards McGill (thank goodness since I have like a week to confirm my acceptance haha) so thank you for that. There certainly is alot to consider in making these university decisions but oh well, better safe than sorry I guess.</p>

<p>Best regards,
Heisenberg27</p>

6

<p>Assignments can be frustrating because they are time consuming but I can say that I am a better programmer as a result and understand the material taught in my courses much more from having done them throughout the year.</p>

<p>As for sacrificing your social life, it shouldn’t be an issue. I’m really active with the Fight Band (one of the best groups at McGill, we’re the pep band that plays at varsity games) and I take time to work on campus and volunteer with the First Year Office. (And my GPA hasn’t taken a hit because of it.)</p>

<p>In terms of CS, it’s true that you have the choice between PHYS 101/102 and PHYS 131/142. I did end up taking 101/102 because at the time that I was required to take the general physics course, I was enrolled in biology. I’m glad I went with the easier physics route – I’m not much of a physics person myself. You can definitely opt for 101/102 if you think it’ll be more your cup of tea :)</p>

<p>In CS there’s an abundance of internship opportunities – I know of quite a few in the program that have take a summer class for the month of May and then gone directly into a paid internship during the months of June, July and August. Obviously if you’re tight on money and would prefer going home, I’d opt for that. Summer courses aren’t too expensive and can be helpful if you need to reduce your courseload or want to get ahead.</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision!</p>

7

<p>Thanks! :)</p>

<p>Alright so my mind is quite a bit more at ease now but I do have one more main question (pretty sure just one more…) </p>

<p>You mention that you have a GPA over 3.8 and that it honestly is possible to earn a high CompSci GPA (with or without programming experience) as long as you work for it. If that’s the case then sure, sign me up to work no problem! However, one thing is pestering me a bit in being assured by that statement…</p>

<p>After my last post, I decided to quickly Google “qcmaudelemaire” to figure out what the heck it meant and I happened to come across this thread that you’d posted a few years back: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/mcgill-university/1002771-serais-je-accept.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/mcgill-university/1002771-serais-je-accept.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>HOLY CRAP! You’re a freaking genius!!!</p>

<p>I mean sure, I’m pretty proud of my 98% average and all but, in a small school with few resources and only around 100 or so students in my grade, I’m really not sure if it means anything that I’m the top student. </p>

<p>In contrast, your ACT score, SAT score, high gpa, and extracurriculars all make for a pretty clear measure that you are, in fact a “top student”.</p>

<p>Now, again, I really am willing to work to earn my grade but I honestly have no idea how I compare intellectually to other students of McGill-caliber. So, I guess what I’m asking is, from your experience interacting with other McGill CompSci (or Bio) students, is it really possible for an average joe (albeit hardworking and highly self-motivated like myself) to achieve a high McGill GPA or does one need to beat out the competition and always be one of few “top students” to reach that 3.8?</p>

<p>Yeah, I know I’m obsessing over this but, as the biggest decision I’ve yet had to make, I want to make sure I make the right one. Thanks for all your help.</p>

<p>-Heisenberg27</p>

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<p>Well cant answer your question specifically for computer science but I ended my first term at mcgill just now with a perfect 4.0</p>

<p>Took two math courses ( 133,141 ), two econ courses and one management course.</p>

<p>Class Averages for the courses were like :</p>

<p>Econ, both had roughly a 65% average. Prof actually posted the mean, standard deviation and all that statistical crap.</p>

<p>Management, average of 75</p>

<p>Math, disaster at mcgill. Most math courses have abysmal averages and need to be curved up so no idea what the true average was but its always pretty low.</p>

<p>I’m taking Calculus 3 ( Math 222 ) this fall as an elective and feel quite confident too. Overall, I’d say its quite possible to have a high GPA.</p>

<p>I have a buddy in comp sci who failed Math 141 but hes brilliant in his other courses so watch out for that course.</p>

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<p>Hahaha I had completely forgotten about that post! I’m not really a genius, though.</p>

<p>I honestly mean that hard work is really the way to go. If you’re disciplined and you focus on your schoolwork (and get the help you need), you’ll do great!</p>

10

<p>Ah alright, that is quite a bit of a relief. </p>

<p>One question for Zilch3. Regarding Math 141, how did you personally find that course? From what I’ve read, it does seem like a bit of a GPA killer (especially with respect to the “brutal” final exam). </p>

<p>Being that you achieved a 4.0, I imagine that it is safe to assume you performed reasonably well in the course. Obviously, to be at McGill, you must be a smart student but, particularly, would you consider yourself a “math whiz” (or at least, is math your fort</p>

11

<p>Math 141 is a killer for most people. I think people from every faculty are actually united in their hate for that course. The course is structured in a way that’s intimidating to most. There are 3 quizzes which are worth 20% totally throughout the term and you’re allowed 30 minutes in each. They’re quite hard and the time is way too short so if anything have effective time management there, if you dont know something just skip it, dont waste time thinking.</p>

<p>The Final is also hard. There’s a curve though or else the class average would be near a fail.</p>

<p>Math was pretty intimidating for me when I first started here. I mean, I always used a calculator in high school and suddenly here you not only have to solve an insanely hard question but waste time calculating the final answer at the end without a calculator. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t say I’m a “math whiz” but I’m not bad either. The course requires hard work and dedication for the most part. If you fall behind in one part or miss a good lecture, you’re absolutely screwed as the course progresses. I lost count to be honest of how many people failed this course, its like a tradition at mcgill. I think 40% or so fail it each term and only a few do very well. In my circle of friends for the course, most got a B- or a B and they were quite smart.</p>

12

<p>Ok, hmmm, well thank you for the advice Zilch3,</p>

<p>May I ask who you had as your professor? I doubt it would miraculously eliminate the severe difficulty of Math 141 but I have heard that Math profs at McGill vary largely in their quality and I’m wondering if maybe having one of the better ones would help reduce the brutality of the course…hopefully.</p>

13

<p>I jumped between Trudeau and Fox. Trudeau is the best if you can get him, amazing prof. Unfortunately every math class wants him to teach so he wont always be teaching 141. Dont think hes teaching it this year. Avoid Drury at all costs. Take anyone else you see.</p>

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<p>Fortunately, I may be wrong but, at least according to [MATH</a> 141 Calculus 2 (4 credits) | Programs, Courses and University Regulations - McGill University](<a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/study/2012-2013/courses/math-141]MATH”>MATH 141 Calculus 2 (4 credits) | 2012–2013 Programs, Courses and University Regulations - McGill University) , it seems like Sidney Trudeau is, in fact, teaching Math 141 this Winter 2013. </p>

<p>However, being that it seems like the difficulty of Math 141 is noticeably linked to a certain professor with much authority over the course/exams, I’m wondering if (in a roundabout way) the more challenging Math 150/Math 151 may actually be more manageable than Math 140/Math 141 overall (note: from what I can tell, the current prof for Math 150/Math 151 is Charles Roth if that rings any bells).</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

15

<p>Right, Sidney was teaching Math 141 this Winter 2013. I think you’re confused regarding the terms. Winter 2013 is the term which just got over so that schedule hasn’t been updated for Winter 2014 which is when you will be taking it. Sidney will most likely not be teaching 141 this Fall 2013, Winter 2014. They usually rotate profs each year and sidneys turn is over. Also, hes busy with a new math elective this year ( Told us this in class ).</p>

<p>Roth is a good prof but I still wouldn’t go that route unless you’re confident in your math abilities. I sure as hell wasn’t when I came to mcgill but hey if you think you can handle it then go for it. You dont want to dig yourself into a hole which you cant climb out of.</p>

<p>Drury writes all the exams for 141 every year regardless if he is teaching it or not so they are always reasonably the same difficulty wise each year. Too bad hes a terrible lecturer, most go into his class thinking wow hes the exam writer, I’ll learn everything from him and leave frustrated.</p>

16

<p>Aw great…</p>

<p>Over the course of the past several moths, the thought of being enriched by the experience of having Sidney Trudeau as one of my profs (I’d heard about him from a few student I talked to) has been one of my greatest encouraging factors towards tolerating the difficulty of McGill mathematics. If he’s not teaching it…then I really am quite anxious (I assume that means he’s probably rotating with William Brown).</p>

<p>Can you recommend any other exceptional Math 141 profs you’ve heard of who might be teaching next year?</p>

<p>(ok, according to the class schedule listing for winter 2014 on minerva, an Axel Hundemer seems to be teaching Math 141 winter 2014 and he seems alright but I hadn’t heard of him teaching Math 141 so I’m not sure how he would be compared to Sidney Trudeau)</p>