Med School Admission Chances?? Low GPA (3.0) /Physics Major/ Taking Bio/Chem PreReq's in CC?????

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

Hello All,
There might be a long shot for what I am asking but I am willing to take a chance to bring dream to a reality.

I graduated with Physics Degree in Dec 2013 from a State University in Minnesota. I worked for a year in 2014. And in 2015 while working part-time I joined MS (International Business) program in Oakland California for two semester (GPA 3.75).
I stopped MS program to join United States Army Reserve in California. After I returned from training I didn’t feel like going back to MS program.
Going to medical school was a childhood dream but along the way, family circumstances and financial hardship came in the way because of which I worked during the bachelors and afterwards also. Now that family and financial matters have eased I want to focus back in studies and get back to planning about going to medical school.

I have researched the medical school admission requirements and found that Biology-1 year, Organic Chemistry-1 year, Physics -1 year, Calculus -1 year and some Zoology and genetics courses were basics.

With physics degree already earned, I took multiple years of Physics, Inorganic Chemistry and Calculus but have not took Organic Chemistry and Biology courses. I am planning to take the following course from City College of San Francisco in the following years (1-2) to come.

Organic Chemistry I and II (8 Credits)
Medical Chemistry (4 Credits)
Anatomy and Physiology (4 credits)
Microbiology (4 credits)
Animal Biology (4 credits)
NeuroScience(3 credits)
Bioethics (3 credits)
Biology of Cancer (3 credits)
Research Methods (3 credits)
Statistics for Behavioral Sciences (5 credits)
Intro to Philosophy (morality and politics) (3 credits)
Intro to Philosophy (knowledge and its limits) (3 credits)
Intro to critical thinking (3 credits)
Discrete Maths (3 credits)
also Some humanities courses

Also I plan to repeat some physics courses that I had done poorly before
Electromagnetism for Scientists and Engineers (4 credits )
Waves and Thermodynamics for Scientists and Engineers (4 credits)

During the next two year I plan to volunteer in my community at health clinics or hospitals and also take MCAT.

My question is , when the Medical Schools Calculates my GPA for Admission purposes, do they take into consideration the courses that I will be taking in CC?? or Did I already messed it up by not doing it well in the first place???

or

Should I get a new 4 year degree all together?? if is it better then just completing pre reqs separately???

Provided that I will ace the courses that I will take to fulfill prerequisites and obtain 520 in MCAT, is there s possibility that I would get admitted in any medical School either instate or out of state???

Also, I am Nepalese American, which makes me I think Minority in Medicine. I live in California.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thank you
Jai Shree Ram!

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I don’t mean to be harsh but, is English your second language?

Why do I ask?
Your writing (especially grammar) will limit your chances for medical school because it adversely impacts the intent of your message.

Additionally, the schools will look at all of your grades.

Underrepresented minorities are those students who have traditionally had limited opportunities given weak environments to thrive: African-American, Hispanic-American, Native-American, and Pacific Islanders.

There is no financial aid for 2nd degree candidates.

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As aunt bea mentioned, you’re not a URM; you’re a ORM (Over-represented in medicine). There are tons of Asian students applying for med school, particularly in California. 1/3 of all Asian med school applicants are from California.

URM (or more accurately UiM–Underrepresented in Medicine) includes African Americans, Native Americans/Pacific Islanders and Hispanics who are Puerto Rican or Mexican Americans. (Not all Hispanics are UiM.)

Here is the AAMC grid showing the average GPA and MCAT scores by ethnicity of both applicants and matriculants;
https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf

Successful Asian applicants have on average a 3.74 GPA and a 511 MCAT.


All your grades will be considered when your GPA and sGPA are calculated. Neither AMCAS or AACOMAS allows grade replacement so retaking coursework isn't any particular benefit to you. Your graduate program grades will also be considered. AMCAS will list graduate coursework separately from your undergrad coursework, while AACOMAS will include them as part of your overall GPA calculations.

The fact that you did not complete your graduate program will be considered --and it will reflect negatively on you. It says you cannot commit to and finish something.

Your course list needs some tweaking–you need to take biochemistry, a statistics or biostatistics course (replace statistics for behavioral sciences with biostatistics or a math dept based stats class) , intro to sociology, intro to psychology.

Why? Because all of those topics will be included on the MCAT. They are also required for admission at a number of medical schools.

I would not bother taking additional humanities coursework. It’s not needed for med school admission and really won’t help you. Concentrate on sciences. As a physics major you already have a large number of science credits and it’s going to take many, many more science classes to raise your science GPA (which is just as important, if not more so, than your overall GPA).

And I will honest, the fact you’re taking all your classes at a CC is going to hurt your credibility w/ med school adcomms. You’ve graduated from college and have attended grad school; anything less than excellent grades (read: all As) at the CC is going to be counted as black mark on your application. You also need to consider that you will need LORs from professors to support a med school application. Those really need to be from profs at a 4 year college.


Lastly, and I mean this with kindness and sincerity, before you commit your time & money on preparing for med school, you first need to do some physician shadowing and clinical volunteer work. You had a childhood dream of becoming a physician, but you really don't know what being a physician is like as a career. Most people have unrealistic and hopelessly idealistic views of what it's like to be doctor. The reality of the career is much different. It's a tough life and not one that suits most people.
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Just to add that you should go to Nepalese section of cc and to read about how many high acheiving students from your country.

5

@WayOutWestMom I appreciate your thorough comment.
In regards to incomplete Masters Degree Program, I am going to complete the rest of the 2 semesters that is remained in the hope that it is going to make my application better by a bit.

If I were to knock out the Biology/ O-Chemistry/Psychology/ Sociology courses out the park with all A’s and get around 520 or better in MCAT, would that mean I might have a chance in Medical School???

I also noticed people getting Medical degree from Puerto Rico, and some colleges there had median incoming GPA’s lower then most medical school in mainland USA, what are my chances there ? and how does the degree there compares to that of obtained in Mainland USA??

thank you

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RE: knocking bio/o-chem/psych/soc out of the park… probably not. While there are medical schools that like reinvention, doing well in 6 intro level classes isn’t enough. (Particularly for someone who has a graduate degree.) You need a sustained track record of doing well in upper level science classes, not intro classes. You’d need to also ace biochem, plus another 4-5 upper level bio electives taken at a 4 year college. (Electives like immunology, embryology, neuroscience, genetics, human anatomy & physiology. advanced cellular bio, cell signaling, etc .) Those grades along with a strong MCAT will get you a shot at medical school. (No guarantee of admission–just a shot. There is never an guarantee that anyone will get admitted.)

RE: People who have low GPAs and high MCATs are considered “high risk” by adcomms. The stats mismatch is usually an indicator of immaturity, lack of discipline, lack of commitment, poor decision making skills and sometimes mental health issues. You’d need a very special narrative to get adcomms to take a risk on you.

ANOTHER OPTION: if you are willing to take HUGE risk and go substantially into debt for a chance to go to med school, there is one other route you can take-- a SMP. Special Master’s Program is a 1-2 year graduate program where you will take the equivalent of the first year of med school, often side-by-side with actual med students. If you do well and end up in the top 25% of the class (which includes the med students), you can apply to med schools from there. A few med schools offer guaranteed interviews for the very top students in their own SMP. If you don’t end up with 3.75 or higher at a SMP and aren’t in the top 25%–you can kiss any chance of med school in your future good-bye forever.

SMPs are expensive–often in the $60+K/year range, offer no FA except loans. Admission to a SMP is competitive. You have to have completed all your pre-reqs and taken your MCAT.


RE: Puerto Rico All Puerto Rican medical schools are recognized by all US accrediting bodies and meet all US standards. The education is considered equivalent to what you'll find anywhere else in the US. The reason why their incoming students have lower stats because many of them are English-as-second-language students and come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

If you are thinking of applying to a PR med school, make sure you understand that you are expected to be fluent in Spanish since the some of the coursework is taught in Spanish, some of the textbooks are written in Spanish and your clinical rotations will have you rotate through hospitals where the patients are mono-lingual Spanish speakers (no translators provided). You will need to provide documentation of Spanish language skills unless you are a native Spanish speaker.  PR med schools give strong preference to Puerto Rican natives and those of Puerto Rican descent. University of Puerto Rico only accepts residents of Puerto Rico.
7

@WayOutWestMom Your first point is only partially correct. You don’t necessarily have to take every upper-level class under the sun to prove that you’re capable of going to med school. Consider that there are plenty of post-baccs who are going back to undergrad to complete the pre-reqs after finishing college or, in some cases, after finishing graduate school. They don’t get the opportunity to take those upper-level courses.

As a traditional student, not only have I completed all of the basic pre-req coursework (Bio, Chem, OChem, Physics, Biochem, Calc, Stats, Sociology, and Psychology), but I also have other health-related courses under my belt that aren’t just Biology or Biochemistry.

I’m a Public Health major, so I’ve taken Epidemiology, Medical Anthropology, Environmental Health, Global Health, Health Policy, etc. Additionally, I have two minors (Chemistry and Biology). For my Bio minor, the two upper-level courses that aren’t for any of the pre-reqs are Bioinformatics (which I’m also TA’ing) and a 400-level seminar course in molecular biology about cancer (we had to do tons of research, write a review paper, analyze cancer biology literature, and complete two, 2.5 hour presentations on two parts of our research).

Do what you can and make the best of what you have. Take advantage of every opportunity afforded to you.

8

To the OP: there are some post-bacc pre-med programs out there that allow you to take the pre-med prereqs after you have graduated college or grad school. Here’s a link for more info: https://apps.aamc.org/postbac/#/index

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@unicornhorn008

I know there are post-baccs for career changers that don’t require the student to take tons of upper level coursework–just the basic pre-reqs. D1 was career-changer/physics major who took her ochem, biochem and bio pre-reqs (plus a few other upper level science classes like A&P and PChem) after college. And several of D2’s friends have done both formal & informal career changer post-baccs. That’s not why I recommended the OP take upper level bio classes.

The issue is that right now the OP’s GPA is too low (3.0) for med school. Plus she has already a substantial number of chem, physics & math classes so she has a sGPA that is also too low for med school. It will take 120+ credits just to raise her current 3.0 GPA to a 3.5 GPA–which is at the lower end for med school consideration.

As it stands, her current GPA and sGPA are so low she’ll get auto-screened out at every med school she applies to. She needs to demonstrate that she can do well in tough upper level science classes in order to get taken seriously.

Her good grad grades are in a non-science field (business) which doesn’t prove she’ll be able to do well in the tough science classes that make up med school. Also grad GPAs are notoriously inflated–and adcomms know that. In grad school a 3.5 GPA is average to below average.

10

OP: The post-bacc program at Agnes Scott College has a deal with Mercer University School of Medicine where if you get a certain MCAT score and GPA in the program (I forgot the exact number, but it’s slightly lower than the national average), then you get an automatic acceptance into their med school. Look at ALL of your options, and make sure that you strategize.

https://www.agnesscott.edu/post-bacc/

11

Note that there are a lot of allopathic and osteopathic med schools that don’t simply pre-screen their applicants based on numbers. There are a number of schools that take everything into account. If you end up taking some extra courses and/or doing a post-bacc program, doing very well in those classes despite your previous undergrad coursework will show maturity. You have a lot more options than you think. Don’t fret and go for the gold!
Also, if you need any more help, I would highly recommend going to student doctor network, as admissions counselors, pre-health advisors, current med students, pre-meds, etc all go there to talk about issues like this. You are not the only one in this situation. I wish you luck!

12

Lastly, make sure that you know that you actually want to do this, as med school isn’t something that you should pursue as a “childhood dream”. You need real clinical experience to know what it’s actually like to be a doctor. Break open that phone book and start calling around to see if you can shadow some doctors.

13

The MUSC linkage is ONLY available to Agnes Scott students who are legal residents of Georgia.

https://www.agnesscott.edu/post-bacc/linkage-agreements.html

The OP is resident of California. The OP cannot gain Georgia in-state resident status while attending the Agnes Scott program.

And acceptance to MUSC is not automatic. It allows applicants who have 3.5 GPA at AS and 28/506 MCAT to apply and get an early acceptance decision from MUSC to avoid a glide year between the post-bacc and med school. Applicants still need to apply thru AMCAS, undergo an interview etc. AS grads will be competing against the regular applicant pool at MUSC.

Also admission to Agnes Scott’s post bacc requires a minimum 3.5 GPA and non-science undergrad degree. The OP does not meet either criteria.
https://www.agnesscott.edu/post-bacc/admission-requirements.html

The devil is in the details, unicorn!


There a number of post-baccs that have linkages. (Swarthmore, Georgetown, Penn, JHU, NYU, Columbia, Goucher, Drexel, UVM, Tufts, plus others)  That's not unusual. However, there are none that guarantee an admission to a particular med school if the student meets certain benchmarks.
14

My question to you, (as I would question any of my students) what happens if you are taking all of this additional coursework and your don’t get into med school? Your chances don’t look good.

My dd graduated last June from her UC; there were 1000 graduates, most of whom were going to be applying to medical school. Her close friends had phenomenal scores and grades and were already were getting interviews.

Plus, many of them have excellent grammar skills and have worked in local community clinics, shadowing doctors and working as volunteers.

You would be competing with them and each UC that graduated "pre med " majors.

What is your back-up?

How will your repay your loans?

15

@WayOutWestMom Nowhere in my post did I say that admission was guaranteed without benchmarks. I said in my message to you (and in that post) that there are GPA/MCAT requirements before the “automatic acceptance”. Please read my posts more carefully:

“OP: The post-bacc program at Agnes Scott College has a deal with Mercer University School of Medicine where if you get a certain MCAT score and GPA in the program… then you get an automatic acceptance into their med school”

Also, it says that they offer acceptions to applicants whose undergraduate education was “several years ago”.

However, I will give it to you that I didn’t know that the OP was from California (which disqualifies them from the linkage program). I will also give it to you that the OP has a science degree, and therefore, is not qualified for the post-bacc program. Still, OP should do more research into their options. They aren’t doomed to fail if they’re serious and put in some hardcore work.

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@“aunt bea” Unfortunately, in that case, they’ll have to find a different career and pay back those loans through working. It’s better to find out earlier that you don’t get into med school after doing all of that than to flunk med school while taking out $100K+ loans.

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Good forum for a similar problem: https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/threads/super-low-undergrad-gpa.1055402/
beware that there are some harsh-ish comments
Basically from what I’ve seen: post-bacc (or some other way to re-take the courses) + going the DO route (which offers grade replacement) is your best bet. Either that, or you can take the extra coursework and apply to Carribean med schools. However, DO is generally better than Carribean.

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DO schools have abolished the grade replacing policy starting 2017 application cycle. So he is out of luck. If OP is still interested in med schools. SMP and Caribbean schools are the only options.

I have seen a Columbia graduate with 3.0 GPA did not get into ANY med schools in the last round.

19

aunt bea poses excellent questions.

Not everyone can be a doctor no matter how much they have dreamed about being one.

There comes a point where the costs (financial and personal) become too great and it’s time to let go of the dream and play the hand one holds.

There are real risks with serious real life consequences in pursuing a childhood dream at all costs. Ending up in enormous debt is one of the risks. As is taking years of additional coursework (and thus postponing any other potential career) and still ending up without a med school admission.

Every pre-med needs a Plan B. What’s yours?

@binaya24 Have you consider other healthcare careers? Nursing? (which would give you the option of eventually pursuing APRN/nurse practitioner training) A medical therapist of some type? Maybe a radiation therapist–which would take advantage of your physics training.

Here’s a website that gives you a good place to start researching other healthcare career possibilities.
[Explore Health Careers](https://explorehealthcareers.org)

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@unicornhorn008 Appreciate the link to post bacc offering institutions. thats might be the route I start after taking first year biology and O-chemistry at a CC.