Med School Admission Chances?? Low GPA (3.0) /Physics Major/ Taking Bio/Chem PreReq's in CC?????

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
21

@binaya24

unicorn is enthusiastic but very misinformed.

You will not qualify for career-changer post-baccs because you have a science degree and have already taken half or more of your science pre-reqs (math, gen chem, physics). You especially will not qualify the Agnes Scott post-bacc on several counts. (Not a resident of Georgia, have a science degree)

If you want to enroll in a post-bacc program, you’ll need to enroll in a grade-enhancing post bacc–which are for the most part graduate programs. Due to recent changes in admission requirements at osteopathic medical school programs, applicants can no longer re-take classes and use grade replacement to improve their GPAs–which is the premise that all undergrad post-bacc programs operate on.

If you are dead set on trying for medicine–then you need to complete your pre-reqs, take the MCAT and, assuming your MCAT score is strong, apply for a special type of post-bacc called a Special Master’s Program.

Here is a link to a discussion of SMPs and who will benefit by enrolling in one.
https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/threads/the-official-guide-to-special-masters-programs.346106/

Here is a list of SMPs–all of them offer linkages to their own medical school program

University of Cincinnati Special Masters Program (M.S. Physiology)
Georgetown SMP (M.S. Physiology)
Boston University (M.A. Medical Sciences)- or BUMAMS
Drexel University Interdepartmental Medical Sciences (IMS) - Masters in Medical Sciences (M.M.S.)
Eastern Virginia Medical School (M.S. Biomedical Sciences)
Rosalind Franklin University (M.S. in Biomedical Sciences)
Indiana University (M.S. Health Sciences)
Loyola University (M.A. Medical Sciences)
Tulane University (ACP Program (Pharmacology)
Virginia Commonwealth University
Barry University
University of Pennsylvania Special Sciences Program
UMDNJ
Dartmouth University C.E.C.S. Center for Evaluative Clinical Sciences (I Believe MPH?)
Temple University
Ohio State (limited to UiM and “economically disadvantaged” applicants from Ohio)
Western Michigan State
Philadelphia College of Medicine
Touro College of Medicine (all 3 campuses–NYC, California and Nevada)

22

I don’t think Smp is a viable solution either. First of all op has to have a decent Mcat before the Smp will accept him. It become catch 22 because you need to finish the med school pre-req before take the Mcat. Beside, the Gpa is probably too low to enter an Smp program.

Perhaps you need to go to a post-bacc to finish those pre-req and finish in flying color, take Mcat with at least 505, get accepted by Smp, be the top 10% in the program before a med school will look at you.

23

@binaya24 Unfortunately, like @WayOutWestMom said, DO programs are no longer offering grade replacement. However, don’t count yourself out (from what I understand, this change still has some glitches that need to be worked out).
I would talk to some medical school admissions counselors and official pre-health advisors at local colleges/universities (people who have legit expertise on this stuff) about your options. You may have more options than you think. In addition to applying for SMPs, ask the pre-health advisors and med school admissions counselors to see if you qualify for any post-bacc programs on the list that I sent you. To me, (and from @artloversplus), it looks like post-bacc is your best option. However, don’t only take my word for it. The pre-health advisors/med school admissions counselors are likely to provide more advice than what you’ll find on this forum (they know the ins and outs of everything). Just a warning: there are some bad pre-health advisors out there. Choose carefully.

Otherwise, there are always Carribean schools. If those end up being your only chance, then so be it. However, you have to REALLY be on top of your game because you’ll have to go through extra hurdles to pass the USMLE Steps 1 and 2, and get into a residency program of your choice.

24

@artloversplus This is why OP needs to consult legit pre-health advisors and med school admissions counselors. They’ll have more advice/options to offer than anything that they’ll find on this forum. As implied in your comment, there are nuances to everything, and it’s good to have professionals who know what they’re doing guide perspective med school applicants.

25

Also (just a general comment): I hate it how the current system screws over people like the OP who want to go to med school after they finished a science degree, especially if they didn’t have to aim for a certain GPA while in college. I don’t know if this exists already, but perhaps a program should be in place for people like the OP to start over on a “clean slate” and enter post-bacc programs after a certain number of years beyond your most advanced degree (e.g. 10+ years). If they show potential to do significantly better, then why not? Maybe I’m being too empathetic?

26

What would “automatic acceptance” given a certain GPA/MCAT score mean other than guaranteed admission?

27

I would rather be an NP or a PA than go to a carribean medical school. You’re going to end up in primary care anyway, might as well take half as long (and half as much $$$$) to get there.

28

@unicornhorn008

The current system doesn’t “screw over” people who want to go to med after completing a science degree. I know of several career changers who left engineering and science and successfully applied to med school. Not all of them had unimpeachable academics on their side. It’s not impossible, but it does take time, effort, dedication and absolute excellence once the decision to apply to med school is made. It is not a sure thing, but then admission to med school never is.

There are a number of med schools that will only look at the last 90 credits earned. There are med schools that re-weight grades and re-calculate AMCAS/AACOMAS GPAs. (Happens more often than you’d guess.) There are legitimate grade-enhancing post-baccs and SMPs that work for some people.

There are alternate pathways.

As my DH used to say if being a ______ was easy, everyone would do it

Becoming a doctor takes persistence in the face of adversity. It takes dedication and effort and time. Med school also requires a reasonable amount of academic horsepower–which, not unreasonably, med school adcomms expect applicants to to demonstrate. It also requires a level of self-reflection and self-awareness about one’s own abilities and about the realities and limitations of one’s own situation.

A medical career is not a prize we award people who have “dreamed” of being a doctor. It’s not a cookie we give someone because we feel sorry for them or we feel they “deserve” it. It’s right that has to be earned.


EDIT to remove my rehashing of D1's academic rehabilitation and subsequent acceptance at multiple med schools. No grade replacement involved. PM if you want the saga....

RE: your clean slate idea–this is already the case for older non-trads.

Non-trads who have been out of school for a long time (5 or 10 years) are judged by different standards than traditional applicants or applicants who have taken a gap year or two. While their AMCAS and AACOMAS GPA calculations won’t change, they do have to retake all their pre-reqs. (Many med schools have a requirement that pre-reqs cannot not be older than 5 years since date of graduation. Science moves fast and its easy to get out of date.) If the applicant can write a convincing explanation of “I was young and stupid once, but now I have my head on straight” & back it up with evidence, they are judged by their more recent experiences and grades, not something that happened a decade ago.

In TX, there is the Academic Fresh Start program. After 10 years, a student can petition to have their old grades wiped out. They can start over a freshman with no baggage and earn a new bachelor’s degree. TMDSAS accepts the new degree without referencing the old one. NOTE however, the Academic Fresh Start is an all or nothing. One cannot selectively choose which grades they want to keep and which they want to discard. It also revokes any earlier degree earned.


Re: "legit pre med advisors"--

Most of pre-med advisors are pretty awful when dealing with non-typical applicants. Mostly because they see very, very few of them, if any at all, in their career.  

Additionally, most pre med advisors are **only**  familiar with the policies and practices and student outcomes a handful of local med schools where their undergrads typically matriculate. "Legit" pre med advisors give plenty of really bad advice. ( As an example, D2 attended an East Coast university. She wanted to come back West for med school. Her pre med advising office offered her absolutely terrible advice! Why? Because they didn't know much about western med schools. She got much better advice from her mom, her sister, the people on this forum and the internet than she did from her actual pre med advising office--and she graduated from a university *known* for its strong pre-med program and "great" advising.)
29

If OP wants to become a non-traditional applicants, he should read all the postings in studentdoctor.net. Yes, after 10 years working as a slob, you may be able to start over. However, I’d rather become a PA and work as a doctor, its a faster route to start a practice.

30

@artloversplus How can you become a PA and work as a doctor? They have somewhat similar job descriptions, but they’re also different in a lot of ways (e.g. doctors have a deeper understanding of WHY certain treatments work and can be more creative/have more leeway with treatment plans, etc). Medical education goes way more in-depth than PA. Not to disregard PAs, as they are important, but MD/DO requires a whole different level of training. There’s a reason why you’re the “boss” when you’re a medical doctor.

31

@WayOutWestMom I think you need to read my comments more carefully and read between the lines. I directly (and indirectly) addressed most if not all of those nuances in my comment. E.g. the purpose of me saying that OP should consult pre-health advisors AND med school admissions counselors is to control for the fact that not all pre-health advisors are all that great (which, again, I said in my comment), “I don’t know if this exists already” implies that I’m not knowledgeable enough on non-traditional student admissions and it’s therefore a possibility that what I mentioned or something similar could already be happening, etc. I shouldn’t have to spell every little detail out for the OP. They can make inferences.

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@WayOutWestMom FYI, if that seemed harsh, I apologize. I certainly didn’t mean it that way. The keyboard isn’t effective at communicating nuances in speech.

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@unicornhorn008 FYI, @WayOutWestMom is one of, if not the most knowledgeable contributor to the pre med forum . She has 2 kids, one in residency and the other in med school. I see you are new to CC and your opinions are valued and welcome, but you don’t need to come out swinging with such a hard bat. JMO.

34

Hello All, I really appreciate the suggestions that I have received in this thread. Based on this discussion and the research that I have been doing following is the outlook I have regarding my path to medical school.

I am starting pre requisites courses in a CCSF SF starting this summer. Following are the sequences of classes that I plan on taking

Summer '17
Intro to Sociology- 3 cr
Intro to Psychology -3 cr
Research Methods - 3 cr
Statistics for Behavioral Sciences -4 cr

Fall '17
Organic Chemistry(I) – 4cr
Intro to Medical Chemistry --4 cr
General Biology (I) --4 cr
Human Anatomy and Physiology --4cr

** Also, Human Anatomy and Human Physiology are offered separately , 4 credits each, I am not sure whether to take them separately or single 4 credit class. ***

Spring '18
Organic Chemistry(II) -4 cr
General Biology (II) -4cr
Intro to Micro Biology --4 cr
Genetics: Heredity and Evolution -3 cr
Zoology: Animal Biology --4 cr

I am going to do my best and get all A’s. By the end of spring '18, I will be in solid standing to start Post Bacc program. From the links that was recommended above, I have found few post bacc program that will suit my need and are in close proximity.

  1. Post Bacc with UCSF http://meded.ucsf.edu/outreach/eligibility
  2. Post Bacc with SFSU http://prehealth.sfsu.edu/content/how-to-apply
  3. Academic Enhancer track from Cal State Easy Bay https://www.ce.csueastbay.edu/ce/programs/pre-professional-health/#curriculum

Once I get started in Post Bacc around summer '18, I will also start preparing for MCAT to take test during Spring Semester(Hopefully around March-April). I plan on just focusing on my classes and MCAT preparation and leave no stones unturned in doing so.

Assuming…

–I will score above 515 or 520
–Post Bacc GPA 3.9-4.0
– that I will have some experience shadowing physician
– that I will have some volunteering experience at local hospital
– Compelling life story

I plan on starting my medical application after I finish Post Bacc to start Medical School in Fall '20.

How will my chances look?
How will my application compare to other competitive medical school application??
If anything , do I need to Add/Subtract/Change any courses??
Is there anything else that I can do that could improve my chances in Medical School??

Thank you
Appreciate you all.

35

You didn’t read a thing about your chances, did you?
@WayOutWestMom was very honest about your chances.

Since my daughter’s close friends are already in the interview stages for med schools around the country, I’m going to be frank: you aren’t even close to competing with them.

Taking courses at a community college, for two years, prior to applying for med school just looks desperate.

You are aware that most of the coursework requires labs?
You haven’t done any clinical work or job-shadowing.

Your English skills are very weak:

Subject/verb agreement.

You do realize that the med school committees actually read the applications?

I don’t even want to broach the subject but, how will you pay $200K?

36

@unicornhorn008 Please read my comments in whole before make an uninformative comment. My comment in regards to PA is in context of a non-traditional med school applicant. That is, if I were to be a non-trad, I’d rather be a PA.

37

OP
First and foremost, it has not been discussed before, but are you an international? If you are an international, all bets are off. Lets assume you have green card and above.

Secondly, you cannot do high level bio classes in a 2 years college like CCSF. Med schools won’t take those credits. Some times they won’t even take Ochem from a CC.

Thirdly, you have to go to a high level ESL class to brush up your English grammar, you will need it in the med school application.

Forth, assuming financially you can afford these post bacc activities.

Fifth, lets look at you plan assuming every thing in 1-4 is passing with flying color, here is what your gpa looks like after this one and half year in a 4 year college:

Current: 3.0 x 130 credits = 390, 4.0 x 35 credits = 140, cGPA=530/165=3.2
Way too low for any medical schools. I doubt that any SMP programs will accept you.

38

Your plan won’t work.
Look into PA or np. You’ll work in general medicine, make a good living, and this IS possible whereas your med school plans just aren’t.

39

Evaluation of plan:

Coursework:

Summer 17
Research methodology without actual research experience is meaningless–take something else
mathematics dept statistics class or biostatistics, not stats for behavioral science

Fall 17
Medical chemistry is vocational class for those in clinical lab science–don’t take this!

Spring 18
Course selection is Ok

BUT–you really need to take these classes at a 4 year college, not at CC

Post-bacc programs:

SFSU is not really designed for people wanting to go to med school. The Academic enhancer program is primarily for people wanting to improve their academics for nursing or an allied health profession fields. I’m not sure it will get you where you want to go.

CSU-East Bay – Caveat: There are no advisors for post-bacc students. You’re on your own.


Your plan is big bunch of question marks--

IF you get a 3.9+ GPA in all your classes from now forward

AND 

IF you get MCAT of 516+

AND 

IF you get *several hundred* of hours (not some hours) of clinical volunteering, physician shadowing and community service, including some leadership positions

AND 

IF you can write a fluent and compelling PS and excellent secondary essays

THEN you have about a 40% chance of getting an interview (based on stats)

IOW, this is a longshot and built on very shaky ground. If fail to achieve a single benchmark you list, it will all fall apart like a tower of cards.

However,  this is your life and if you are determined to pursue this and are willing to spend the time required and take on a significant amount of debt, then go for it.
40

Just looked at CCSF course catalog.

DO NOT take Stats for behavioral sciences. It’s a intro level psych class and it won’t help you improve your sGPA OR give a sufficient foundation for stats on the MCAT.

DO NOT take Research methodology. Again it’s basic psych class and it won’t help with your sGPA, plus it totally irrelevant to your long term goal.

DO NOT take Medical Chemistry. It’s for non-science majors! And about 2 steps below Gen Chem. This will look terrible on your application for post baccs and med school. You cannot get credit for the class if you’ve already taken Gen Chem.

DO NOT take Zoology: Animal Biology because according to the course catalog if you’ve taken General Bio (Bio 100) you can’t get credit for it. You also can’t get credit for the class if you’ve taken or are taking physiology.