My child is a pre med student at an Ivy League college. As a student-athlete it is pretty much impossible to meet all of the requirements at school, including the core curriculum, classes for the major, general pre med requirements, and then the individual requirements of specific medical school programs. Taking summer classes at the school is super expensive and there is no financial aid. Taking 2 classes is probably more than $15k(!), assuming my child commutes from home rather than live in summer college housing. While it remains an option to do a post-baccalaureate program to fill-in pre med requirements, this too is very expensive and delays entry into medical school.
My question is, in view of the costs, does it hurt my child’s application to medical schools if some of the pre med requirements are taken at another school? In particular, does it hurt if the alternative school is ranked significantly beneath my child’s main college?
I’ve heard plenty of Dartmouth’s pre-med taking Harvard’s summer orgo class. It is not cheap, but it does knock out the orgo 1+2 in one summer. But how many pre-med classes can one knock out in local state school? Better check with your child’s Pre-health Office to see if they are ok (if not, they can refuse to give out committee letter).
Credits earned at another college generally will not count towards the degree credit requirements at the home university. They would be extra credits. They would not transfer.
Will taking pre-req courses at another college caused her home school’s health profession committee to deny her a committee LOR? Will it cause the health committee to give her less than enthusiastic endorsement?
If yes, then it will significantly damage her chances for a med school admission
what class or classes would she be taking? Intro bio? Calc 1? Stats? Ochem?
If it appears she is ducking a weeder class at her home school then it’ll be a ding on her application. Then it becomes a matter of how many dings can she afford?
what local college will she be attending? And how much lower are you talking about?
Community college? A 2 year branch campus of the state U? A fundamentalist religious college that denies basic tenets of science (like evolution)? A directional state U? A former state teacher’s college? A tiny LAC that no one has ever heard of?
Some of these are very poor ideas…and will give your D a ding (maybe even a big ding) when her app is reviewed.
Also if she is considering doing her pre-reqs at a CC, be aware that most med schools expect a student w/ CC coursework to take higher level coursework in the same dept at her home college.
An exceptional MCAT score will make up for a multitude of coursework sins, but… you have no way of knowing what her MCAT score will look like two or three years from now.
Remember med school admission is a negative process. With so many strong candidates, adcomms are actively looking for reasons to dismiss an applicant from consideration.
@Andorvw - While my child’s institution will not grant credit for courses taken outside of the university, and the outside grade will not count toward my child’s GPA, there is no regulatory objection to taking classes outside. Clearly, if my child was doing these classes at another Ivy or other elite college, there is less of a potential problem. However, this defeats the purposes, i.e., to reduce costs. If we are prepared to foot the bill at a fellow Ivy or other elite college, we might as well do the courses at our child’s home school.
@ucbalumnus - Indeed. We have researched and accessed such sites/resources and our child has been in regular contact with the advisor. The rub is that, while the school does not stand in your way of doing this, it’s like warning labels about potential side effects for new medical treatments. You can do it, the benefits may be great, but watch out for nausea, dizziness, and suicidal thoughts.
@TomSrOfBoston - Correct. This at least is determined. No credits. No grades. As long as the proposed summer courses are not to meet either core or requirements for the major, they can be taken at another institution. But then there’s that warning label…lol
@WayOutWestMom - This is a great post! You, and @Andorvw raise a critical issue of which we were unaware; the Predmedical Advisory Committee letter. We have now made it a priority to be in contact with someone on this committee to discuss options, if any, for summer classes. In answer to your specific questions:
Per above, this is something into which we are no looking diligently.
Physics 1 & 2 plus labs. This is not an attempt to duck a weeder class such as Orgo. We fully understand that whatever the limits are on taking outside courses, most schools would not look favorably upon a student taking critical and difficult courses outside the university.
We are fortunate to have a wealth of choices at local colleges, however, none are on a level as our child’s home institution. Purely as a matter of economics, the lower down the food chain the better the deal. Whereas tuition at an Ivy for these courses alone will be around $18k, the amount drops precipitously to as low as $2500 at a CC. Just not sure we can reasonably go that low without provoking a negative response in connection with PAC. Again, I think this is something we need to address with PAC.
Point taken re MCAT
Also, good points about CC courses and the negative nature of the med school admissions process.
Keeping all of these great suggestions and insights in mind as we navigate.
Instead of taking pre-med courses, consider taking 1 or 2 GE courses in local colleges as long as home Ivy school accepts to satisfy the requirements. Example Pol Sci / Am Gov / Sociology do it at local college or even CLEP.
If you are near a big city, instead of CC you can consider some other state or private university. Also doing there just 2 or 3 courses or so should cap expense around $5-6k for summer.
I am leery to do compressed 2 OChem courses in 1 summer since that raises the probability for low grade when doing in the entire semester itself students are finding it hard. Sugget to do the OChem 1 & 2, BioChem, Calc at Ivy and not to compress the duration for them.
Basically explore what other courses can be done other than core pre-med or core major courses which can satisfy any requirements at a economical way.
Without knowing pros & cons, my DD did some thing on the fly during HS. Fortunately it appears no damage so far.
A. She did Physiology with lab (3+2) credits at UCB during summer after 11th for $2.5k. Her current school transcript has those courses with credit and her school pre-med committee accepted that course for a required course though UCB course was 1 level below and they told they will give LOR.
B. She did 2 CLEP Pol Sci and Soc Sci during summer after 12th. Her school accepted both courses for the GE req though it will not get any credit (being CLEP or AP).
Be aware that there are a number of medical schools that do not accept CLEP credits to fulfill admission requirements. And many schools have added social science coursework to their admission requirements with the addition of the human behavior section to the MCAT in 2015.
Please consult the MSAR for the requirements of specific schools.
(Obviously this doesn’t apply to GoldenRock’s D because she is a guaranteed admission BA/MD program and her program has already accepted her credits.)
Agree with WOWM post. It is better to avoid CLEP. She fel it is so diluted and easy. Also she felt bad because later she found the only course taught by her current school president is Pol Sci and that course is very famous and she could not take it. On the contrary she felt so happy after her UCB course because that Prof was so good and she completely enjoyed though it was intense due to 12 weeks than the regular 16 weeks.
As follow up to my initial question, my child received feedback from the PAC. The school does not discourage taking courses outside, however, they stressed that medical schools look out for a premed candidate’s ability to carry multiple sciences during a school year and that this should be done at least once during undergrad. Also, medical schools look for extracurricular work experience. This is usually done in the summer with the sophomore and junior summers as the prime timeframes. They suggested adding part time hours to the summer course schedule to facilitate some of this, but to be prepared to do a full summer of work post-junior year. There is also a list of premed courses, e.g., Organic Chemistry, with respect to which it is frowned upon to take outside of the home institution.