Men's Cross Country in College- Advice needed

Athletic Recruits
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<p>My son is very interested in running in college. He is a rising senior but started running in his sophomore year so this will be his third running season. He has a 16:26 5k time and 9:37 3200 meter time. His mile time is 4:40. He likes distance and feels he does better the longer the course. I know the distances for cross country in college are longer so he may do better. He is hoping/expects to break 16 minute this season for his 5k. He has a 34 ACT w/ 36 reading; 35 science with 4.0 GPA.</p>

<p>He loves W & M. (It's in-state for us.) Can you walk onto D1 cross country programs? Can you just practice with the team and at some point get to compete if/when you get good enough? What kind of times do you need? He also likes Williams. I know they are a top D3. He likes the smaller schools- though not too small- under 10k. He doesn't need a scholarship as I know those are so hard to come by in the track & field area- he just wants to run! (Though he would need aid if attending some place like Williams or out of state!) Also, he likes chemistry (for now) so hoping to find some other schools where he could run but still have the academic opportunities in his area of interest.</p>

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<p>Hi VA,
His times are good but not quite at the recruiting threshold for DI. Sub-16 is going to make him recruitable almost everywhere. With his current times, Williams (and other NESCAC’s) will be very interested.</p>

<p>He can write a short email just like the paragraph you posted to colleges of interest to him, including Ivies, with those academic stats, and see who bites. Do not state that he hopes/plans to break 16. Have him email them again when he does.</p>

<p>Williams (DIII) does not give academic or athletic scholarships, but rather, meets financial need. Run the Net Price Calculator for schools of interest to see how that might work for your family.</p>

<p>Walking on is entirely possible, and not uncommon. Late-bloomers like your son are entirely welcome. No coach is going to turn up their nose at talent!</p>

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<p>Thanks so much Riverrunner! Your advice is much appreciated. He is working hard this summer on his training and is really looking forward to his senior year of cross country. We will wait to see what his times are and then, as you suggest, touch base once more with those coaches. Right now, W & M is his top school and that is why the focus is on D-1 and the times. We started looking to the NESCAC as I think those schools also fit his personality/academics and they are good D3. Do you think its too early to ask about walk-on times and what the coach’s policy is with regard to that? Thanks again!</p>

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<p>Nope it’s not too early at all to contact any and all colleges he would truly be interested in attending for academic reasons. Match that first, and let the running part unfold.</p>

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<p>A million years ago I was a marginal D1 distance recruit (and a strong D3 recruit). The ivies I talked to did not recruit me but encouraged me to apply and to walk-on if I was accepted on my own (without the coaches support). I ended up at Cornell where there were 2-3 distance recruits my year … and then I was one of 5-6 guys walking on who had very similar high school experiences. We all made the team … and as freshman got to run in home meets but didn’t make travel squads. By the time my class graduated only a couple of the walk-ons were still running and one had improved to the level of being a scoring level runner in cross country and travel squad guy in track. The recruits guys just has more talent and were tough to catch.</p>

<p>If this were my son I would want to know what he wants out of his college running experience. Is he OK being on the team, running home meets, and maybe eventually being a “scorer” for the cross country team? Or does he want to be a core member of the team from the get-go? Does he want to run against the best? Or against competition more at his level?</p>

<p>(PS - ultimately when I picked my school I ignored sports angle and picked the school I liked the best other than for sports)</p>

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<p>Just a little information about W & M’s XC program – historically W & M has fielded a very competitive men’s team, with the team being in the top 20 nationally from 2006-2010 (the last 2 years haven’t been as successful). So it’s not easy to work your way into a spot on the team. They have the reputation of running a ton of miles compared to other competitive teams. Having said that, Williamsburg is a great place to run and the coaching staff also has tended to be open to walk-on’s and willing to maintain a larger roster than some other schools - just a difference in philosophy. Now is absolutely the time to contact coaches - they have an on-line recruiting questionnaire that you can complete to begin that process. Good luck to your son!</p>

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<p>Another thought - your S might want to explore the possibility of club XC programs as well. At some schools, the club teams are quite competitive, travel for competitions, compete for national championships, etc. - just another option for kids who want to continue to run -</p>

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<p>Thank you! This is what I needed to hear not knowing anything about running. (My other two play travel ice hockey and there is hardly a snowballs chance that anyone from VA play any kind of NCAA hockey from this state. Anyway, we just don’t have the mindset of playing a college sport.) He is definitely picking schools based on academics and overall fit. W&M is his top choice w/out the running aspect. I had heard about W & M and the high mileage and honestly, it concerned me. We ran into a xc/track athlete on the campus who told us that the top kid does 120 miles a week. To answer your question, I think my son wants to continue with the team experience of cross country as well as continue to grow in the sport. I think he would be fine with training and home meets if those options are available. But I have been trying to help him find schools that fit him academically and his personality while at the same time might offer less of a pressure cooker running experience. We have also talked about club but right now he is bound and determined to be on a team. That may change once he gets there. He does love running and I do think it is something that he will do for the rest of his life irrespective of whether he runs in college or not.</p>

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<p>Thanks again for all of the feedback. It is truly appreciated!</p>

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<p>It may be worth contacting the coach wherever he is interested because even if he is not recruited, the coach might put a good word in for him. A coach at a school my daughter applied to did that and also gave her a tip that the optional essay should not be considered optional. Good luck with the search.</p>

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<p>vahockey, you’re getting great advice here!</p>

<p>From the way you are describing your son, he is sounding like a fit for NESCAC.</p>

<p>Here are the results (at the bottom of this post) from the fall 2012 NESCAC XC championships. The distance is longer than high school, so it’s hard to see where he might fit over all, but looking at these results tells you a number of things: Tufts and Middlebury are going to be harder to get recruited for. They are having big success and they will draw some very talented runners who are choosing those schools for the outstanding academics and the chance to run DIII for a strong team.</p>

<p>On the flip side, Hamilton, Colby and Trinity may be more willing to talk with him about a spot. If your son (or you) likes research, he can dig into the profiles of the current team members and compare his PRs to their HS PRs. That will tell you the kind of athletes that are being recruited by the coach.</p>

<p>If you can’t find a good set of running stats for current athletes, you can always look them up on athletic.net [High</a> School Cross Country Results, Statistics](<a href=“http://www.athletic.net/CrossCountry/]High”>High School Cross Country Results, Statistics)</p>

<p>This is a good database that sorts by team, by name, by event, and so on. What you’re really looking for is what another poster alluded to: an appropriate fit for the level of competition your son wants to participate in. Nobody wants to be in completely over their head. It’s much more fun to go to a team that wants you and sees you making a contribution soon, but where you will also be challenged to improve.</p>

<p>[url=&lt;a href=“http://www.nescac.com/sports/xc/2012-13/championship/NESCAC_Mens_2012.pdf]NESCAC[/url”&gt;http://www.nescac.com/sports/xc/2012-13/championship/NESCAC_Mens_2012.pdf]NESCAC[/url</a>]</p>

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<p>Thank you! Thank you! I didn’t know about Athletic.net. I was looking up runners via Milestat. Will take a look at some of those schools and the times to see if it is something he is interested in. </p>

<p>PS. I know what 3togo means about not catching up to some of the recruited D1 guys. My son ran in one of events as Sean McGorty at states. What an amazing talent to watch in motion.</p>

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<p>Was wondering if I could get clarification from the experienced posters about college xc summer training. My son was told if he got a 9:20 in 3200 (and get into school- he has 4.1 GPA and 34 ACT) the coach would give him summer training and then he would get the two week tryout period to see if he could hang with the team. I wasn’t in the meeting. What does summer training for college xc entail? Do runners leave to go to school early or is it like high school where the runner is just guided by a training schedule. His time last year for the 3200 is 9:37 having only run two seasons so 9:20 is not completely out of reach.</p>

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<p>Although my S did not go there, we did have some recruiting discussions with the track coaches at W & M. They were all very professional, and approachable, so if he has any interest you should contact them (recommend e-mail) prior to his application. The event specific coach (my S is not a distance runner) told us that he had the flexibility to help a few kids get admitted every year and also worked with us to get a FA pre-read. </p>

<p>The event coach though, also told us that they limit the number of athletes on the team, so even though it may appear large you want to confirm that there will be open roster spots for distance runners, even if he will be a walk-on, there may simply not be any openings. Our experience was that some of the schools let everyone on the team, but only a select few then travel, and other schools limit the team number but once on the roster you are fully supported. Make sure you know what philosophy any prospective team follows. Some schools have “recruited” walk on spots, no money, but a confirmed spot on the team before you attend and other schools just invite everyone to a try-out with no firm commitment given from either side. </p>

<p>In my S school, (D1 in the same general region of the US) the distance/cross country athletes followed a summer training plan given to them by the distance coach and then needed to be on campus ~ 2weeks before the rest of the student population, this included the walk-ons who were trying out for the team as well as returning veterans. (Most other fall sports athletes also came to campus early too, not just cross country). The first x-country meet was at the end of the first week of classes and performance at that meet was used, in part, to trim down to the final roster.</p>

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<p>OnTrack2013 hit it pretty accurately regarding how summer training works. The NCAA has limits on organized practices before the start of the season, so the training schedule would be given to the athlete with the understanding that the athlete would do the running/ancillary training on their own at home. The athlete would then, at least at most schools, report to campus before the rest of the student body (as is the case with most sports) for a sort of pre-season camp. </p>

<p>Also, I’m not sure what W&Ms policy is regarding walk-ons and racing. Like OnTrack2013 said, a lot of schools limit the number of athletes who will travel. So if W&M decides to go to a large travel meet (think Wisconsin Adidas, Pre-Nats, something like that), they may only take the top-7/9/10 whatever. If your son is just barely on the cusp of making the team he may have to deal with only racing 1-3 times in the season, at smaller, more local, meets. Of course the long term hope would be that he will progress to the point of being a top-7 runner later in his career and making the travel squad for every meet. </p>

<p>A few quick comments about W&Ms training, training in general, and college running. Word is, as you’ve already heard, W&M runs some significant mileage. Is your son up for that, and what is his training history like? A sizable number of programs (not saying if W&M fits the category in particular, but they very well may) operate sort of as a meat-grinder. They get a bunch of fairly talented guys and hammer them, big mileage, big workouts, big everything. The idea being, if you start with a large enough group, you’ll end up with at least 7 guys who can really run by the end of the season. The downside is, you’ll lose a lot of runners that way, either to physical injury or mental burnout. Again, I’m not saying that W&M does that, my knowledge of there particular training is fairly limited, they aren’t a school I’ve raced against before. Another thing to consider, W&M changed coaches a few years ago, and their results haven’t been as good since then. Now this could be for any variety of reasons, but the chance of a connection to the coaching change is too noticeable to ignore. </p>

<p>With all of that being said, it sounds like your son is going about things the right way. Picking a school that he will enjoy, running or not, is key. If you hate the school and are there for the team, you’re going to be miserable if you get an injury (trust me, I know). Plus he’ll end up getting a great education at a school like W&M, and if he makes the team it should be a great experience for him.</p>

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<p>Really appreciate all of the advice. I too have heard about the high mileage and frankly have some concerns about that. I would be more concerned if he was picking W & M for the running. He’s not. He loves the school and wants to run. At the end of the day, the importance is his education and I know he will be happy there. He is a dedicated, committed athlete who I do not think will be discouraged by the mileage. I also have enough faith in his judgement to know that he can, at some point, decide its not for him if it is truly the meat grinder experience. They have an active running club! Thanks again for the feedback and guidance!</p>