<p>Anyone besides trombone and one other poster receive these letters yet?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>PS: Raquetballer says they come about a week later...so it is near time...?</p>
<p>My D and all others at her HS got them last weekend. Three girls got invited into the honors college: one with full tuition, one with half, and one with 3/4</p>
<p>Congratulations! Yes, they have been sent out. There were about 135 invites/merit awards in all. Honors Invite = Merit Scholarship. It is a small group. Alas, we were not an the list this time and that will make our choices more interesting. My D is an athlete who will participate in her sport at Providence, should she choose this scool…so perhaps the honors piece would make that too difficult. Oddly, this may be for the best at PC. The other schools are D3 so the honors program invites were a necessity. This whole thing is a balancing act. Thanks for your update!</p>
<p>Providence loses a lot of excellent students because of its 4 year language requirement for merit scholarships. I know it is a way of weeding candidates out, but if you have a 99 average in Spanish for 3 years and want to expand your horizons in your 4th year, why should you be penalized? I know of 5 students in my sons highschool who were admitted. The 3 three with 95plus averages and SAT scores of 2000- 2100 plus were offered nothing because of the 4 year rule. All are attending elsewhere. Two with 85 averages, who didn’t submit SAT scores, also were admitted and will be attending. I think this will hurt Providence in the long run.</p>
<p>Providence College does not have a four-year language requirement to receive an invitation to the Liberal Arts Honors Program (and a merit scholarship). The students who were selected for the Honors program will have taken an exceptionally rigorous high school program and will be at the top of their class; however, there are students invited who did not take the fourth year of language and filled that slot with another rigorous course that fit their long-term academic goals. The three from your son’s high school may not have taken a fourth year of a foreign language, but that, in and of itself, would not have been the reason they were not selected.</p>
<p>Providence College fills every space in the Honors Program with exceptionally talented students each year.</p>
<p>Students with “B” averages (an 85 as you suggest) have a place at Providence College if they have taken an appropriately challenging high school curriculum. Strength of curriculum and grades achieved are the best predictors of success in the Providence College classroom. This is why Providence College has chosen to be test-optional. The 92% freshman retention rate and 85% Four-Year graduation rate are strong indicators that Providence College is not hurt by it’s admission and honors selection process.</p>
<p>Certainly, talented students who are not selected for the Liberal Arts Honors Program are less likely to choose PC, especially if the have received academic merit at other institutions. This is true of most institutions that are part of their overlap group. </p>
<p>I hope this is helpful.</p>
<p>I was told this by an admissions officer during a 40 minute sitdown after the College tour. Know one could tell me the criteria for acceptance into the Honors Program.
Finally they admitted that they use SAT scores for the Honors Program.
Would you know the range of SAT scores for the admitted Honors students and racial makeup? Would be interested in these stats.</p>
<p>Sunset66: Don’t know about the racial makeup of Honors Program Invitees but the following is from the Admissions Blog on the PC website:</p>
<p>January 12, 2009
Thoughts on the Liberal Arts Honors Program
The invitation letters for students accepted into the Liberal Arts Honors Program (LAH) were released about a week after decision letters, and I thought I would spend a little time talking about the selection process and the credentials for the students who were chosen to be part of the Honors Program (and receive a merit scholarship, as all merit scholarships are exclusively tied to the Honors Program).</p>
<p>(If you aren’t familiar with PC’s Honors Program, go here to find out more!)</p>
<p>In each year’s freshman class of around 1,000 students, we have about 120 spaces in the Honors Program for the top academic performers in the class. There is no separate application to be considered for LAH - the committee on admission considers all accepted students for the Honors Program, and we focus on the following criteria:
-High school curriculum
-Context of high school environment
-Overall high school academic performance (GPA)
-High school English performance
-Class rank (if available)
-SAT/ACT scores (if submitted)</p>
<p>As I’ve mentioned in previous blog posts, the average GPA for students accepted Early Action to PC’s Class of 2013 was an “A-minus” in a very rigorous (Honors/AP) high school curriculum… again, that is an admission invite, not an Honors Program invite. So, for the students who were selected for the Honors Program, we are talking about students who have achieved at the highest possible level throughout all four years of high school. Generally speaking, they have the following credentials: </p>
<ol>
<li>The absolute most demanding curriculum available at their high school. These students have exhausted or nearly exhausted their high school curriculum, taking full advantage of Honors, AP, IB, and college-level courses that are offered in all academic subject areas. Let’s talk about “exhausting” the high school curriculum for a minute…</li>
</ol>
<p>Generally speaking, most of the students we accept to the college (not to the Honors Program) have taken four years of the five core subjects (English, Math, Natural Science, Social Science, Foreign Language) and have taken a predominantly Honors-level curriculum throughout high school. But we are only selecting a very small number of these students into the Honors Program. And they are the students who have taken on the highest academic challenge in all subject areas. Remember, there is a huge difference between a strong curriculum and THE STRONGEST curriculum available at a high school.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>A cumulative, unweighted “A” average in that most demanding curriculum. Again, as the average invite GPA to the college (not the Honors Program) was an “A-minus,” we are not talking about an “A-minus” average in the most demanding curriculum; rather, these are students who have basically had flawless high school careers performance-wise and have achieved at the “A” level throughout all four years in the aforementioned most challenging curriculum offered at their high school. To put it simply, they have taken the most challenging classes offered at their high schools and earned “A’s” in practically all of them.</p></li>
<li><p>An “A” average in their (Honors/AP/IB level) English courses throughout high school. As a liberal arts institution with a challenging core curriculum, English performance is very important to us as part of both the admission review and the Honors Program review.</p></li>
<li><p>These students are at the very top of their classes - if the high school provides rank, students selected for the Honors Program are, on average, in the Top 3-4% of their class.</p></li>
<li><p>If a student chose to submit SAT/ACT scores, they were also considered in the Honors Program review process. As a test-optional institution, SATs/ACTs are not required for admission nor are they required to be considered for the Honors Program. If a student did submit his or her test scores, we considered them in the Honors Program review after looking at the high school academic performance, and the average test scores this year for students invited into LAH landed around a 700 on all three sections of the SATs or about a 31 on the ACT. But remember, one strong SAT/ACT score will never outweigh high school academic performance - so a student with strong (700) SAT scores but a “B-plus/A-minus” high school GPA will NOT be invited into the Honors Program simply based on the test scores. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>We feel very fortunate to have such an incredibly strong group of applicants to PC, but obviously it makes the admission review - and even more so the Liberal Arts Honors review - extremely competitive. In fact, there are a handful of students with perfect “A” averages (unweighted 4.0 GPA on our 4.0 scale) who were not invited into the Honors Program - and the reason for that is their course selection, while solid in the admission review, simply did not measure up to those students who truly exhausted the curriculum at their high schools (and also achieved at an “A” level!). </p>
<p>I hope that this information helps to clarify the selection process for our Liberal Arts Honors Program. If you have any questions about the Honors Program that I have not yet answered, please feel free to send them along.</p>
<p>Posted by Scott Seseske at 5:14 PM | Permalink | Comments (4) </p>
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<p>As a current PC student I can attest that SAT scores are not the sole decision makers for acceptance into the honors program, as PC is SAT optional. In fact, I don’t think SAT scores hold any merit whatsoever, judging by my knowledge of students in and not in the honors program. In my opinion the honors college does not necessarily reflect the best students at PC, and is done on the basis of how early a student’s application was submitted. However, since the majority of students at PC tend to be of a high academic caliber, the honors college does have good “stats” to show off. This is completely unofficial and entirely based on discussions I have had with my friends in the honors program and my friends not in the honors program.</p>
<p>Scott’s blog gives a fair representation of the caliber of academic performance required for acceptance in the Liberal Arts Honors Program (LAH). He does not say that four years of language is required - but says that students should have taken the most challenging curriculum available. As I said in my previous post, another strong course that fits the academic interest of the candidate would not cause an exclusion. However, dropping senior language and NOT taking an appropriate course in its place could (and probably would) hurt given the depth if the pool.</p>
<p>Test scores are considered for admission and the LAH is IF they are submitted. They are never the deciding factor. For students offered admission to the Class of 2013, almost 30% did not submit test scores; for those students admitted in the LAH, approximately 15% did not submit test scores.</p>
<p>As Scott’s blog notes, students invited into the LAH have achieved virually a straight A average throughout their high school careers. They rank at the very top of their class (based on whether class rank has been provided). For context, there are 125 spaces in the LAH for the Class of 2013, and over 170 of the students who were offered admission tp PC were ranked first, second or third in their class (and many other students came from high schools where rank is not provided). Providence College is fortunate to have a deep and talented pool to consider for admission and the LAH. Not every qualified candidate can be accommodated. For those students who submitted their test scores, the average scores for the LAH invitations for the Class of 2013 were 686 CR; 691 M; 703 W.</p>
<p>As for Racquetballer13’s comment about the best students not necessarily being in the LAH, I disagree from the perspective of high school performance. A common criticism from parents is that leadership, service and other personal strengths were not considered in the process - and it is true that those factors do not carry the same weight they do in the admission review. The LAH review is almost entirely based on the candidate’s high school academic career. Those selected have performed at an exceptional level throughout their high school career. I understand racquetballer13’s comment from this perspective - there are many students who mature into much better students in college than they were in high school. By the time they are seniors, they may actually be better students than those who were invited as freshmen.</p>
<p>Finally, racquetballer13 is wrong to suggest that the timing of the application has ANYTHING to do with the selection process. All Providence College literature makes it clear that students applying early and regular are given the same consideration for admission, the LAH and need-based financial assistance. There is no competitive advantage for applyng early.</p>
<p>I hope this information is helpful.</p>
<p>As far as LAH program here is what happened in our school for an example. Three girls were offered LAH: Class Rank 3 (full scholarship), Class Rank 2 (1/2 scholarship), and Class Rank 5 (3/4 scholarship). There are only hundredths of a point separating #3 and #2 and #5 is not far behind. #3 has played a sport for all 12 possible seasons of HS (at a high level for 2 sports) and been a varsity captain 5 seasons, is president of the NHS, vice-president of the class, and has higher SAT scores than #2. #5 has also been a 12 season athlete and been a sport captain 7 times. She is the VP of NHS and a class officer and also has higher SAT scores than #2. In addition #3 and #5 both have 4 AP courses this year (full year ones), while #2 chose to take 3 APs. All the students have 5 years of foreign language. #2 has played two seasons of sports in 4 years and is a member of a choir which meets after school. She is an officer on NHS and a band officer. Anyway that is how it broke down: was it the extra AP course combined with the GPA/rank or was it the extracurricular involvement?</p>
<p>Alf Tupper,</p>
<p>You were correct when you assumed I was talking about the maturity levels. As I said, I am not an official representative of Providence College (judging by your posts you are most likely a PC admissions officer?) and my comment about the timing of the applications come entirely from my discussions with my friends in the honors program.</p>
<p>Hi Mrs. M,</p>
<p>Just a heads up…you are not nearly as confidential on College Confidential as you might think. Watch out with whose stats you’re giving online and who your painting in an unfair light…just a friendly reminder…</p>
<p>Does Providence have merit money outside of the honors program? I know from reading some posts, some feel if they weren’t offered the honors program, they weren’t going to get any money. I’m sure an old friend of my son’s, who is not in the honors program, got 1/2 tuition with merit scholarships and grants.
He might have gotten a different type of award though, I have to ask. If the only merit awards are to the honors program than Providence might not be a viable school, we will have to see. Need-based aid alone wont be enough.</p>
<p>Per a recent call to admissions…that is what I understood the process for the student without a hook or special circumstances. Perhaps there are specific grants/scholarships for certain circumstances (recruited D1 athletes, musicians or other students who entered via “auditions” as opposed to academics.) There may also be additional opportunities for hooks such as: color, ethnicity and so on. The PC admissions site is the best place to look for clarity. They do list the available scholarships/grants.</p>
<p>PS: I feel your pain. In spite of near perfect ACT scores, all the AP/Honors classes (10 total) offered in her school, additional programs outside of her school, six years of lab science, four years of language, five years of math, extraordinary ECs, recommendations and so on, my D did not receive merit or honors from PC and we don’t qualify for needs based aid. (She was accepted at a few more difficult schools with 1/2 merit/tuition so it is puzzling.) I suspect there were just too many apps this year and not enough $ to go around. Having been the financial admin. of such an institution, I can only imagine the difficulty with the 2009 process. Admissions’ staff had no working rule book or tools for the unusual circumstances of this year. The result of the turmoil will be interesting indeed. You might speaking with PC. I am sure they are overburdened but they are really nice folks! Good Luck!</p>
<p>My current junior is considering application to PC and hoping she may qualify for the LAH program. Top 5% of her class with 3.9 unweighted GPA and most rigorous courses. However, her first time taking SAT was somewhat disappointing – definitely not up to the level you mention for students who sent them in. Since she already sent them to PC with that first round – would the lower score hurt her, be ignored since the school is SAT optional? Is she better off to now send all future scores, I’m assuming she’ll improve the next time she takes it. She’s also taking ACT in June. I guess I’m asking – in everthing that is looked at for admission to the LAH, where do SAT/ACT scores rank in the decision process?</p>
<p>When we visited, the AO said if you scored over 550 as an average, send them, if not, you might want to be optional if you had stronger grades/Gpa. He said, GPA was the first thing they look at and the most important.
I think your daughter would be more than fine. Where do you live? Do you have other things that would help? I know geography is a plus too.</p>
<p>We live in MA, so geography probably wouldn’t help much as far as PC goes. She’s only looking at schools within a max. 4 hour driving distance – her choice of what she’s comfortable with. I kind of wish she would be a little more broad in where she’s looking, as I think it would open more potential for her.</p>
<p>My daughter’s have the same criteria, we are in CT. Makes it a bit rough…DC, for instance is a tough sell being 5, but a “maybe” if all others don’t work out. : )
I’m sure her scores were fine and if she wants to send more, if higher, that can only help. The biggest thing for them, was GPA and strength of subjects and what the school offered. He said they looked at students with an “SAT optional” eye even before it was official.</p>
<p>I have applied and was accepted but no mention of Merit. I call PC admissions and was told if it isn’t in the acceptance letter then it is not happening. But the thread discusses a separate letter regarding Honors.</p>
<p>My SAT was 2100
Unweighted “A” with a rigorous schedule (2 - 5 APs, 1 - 4, many honors classes)
Great essay.</p>
<p>Not sure what the deal is?</p>
<p>Dude - you have posted on a 2 year old thread.</p>