merit scholarship UNC Chapel Hill v. Yale

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>Hello all,</p>

<p>I'm trying to decide between Yale and a full merit scholarship at the UNC at Chapel Hill. I received the Carolina Scholarship at UNC (UNC</a> Scholars Program Carolina Scholars), which would cover tuition, room and board, and a living stipend for all four years. While I'm ecstatic to have this dilemma, deciding has been tough. I'm worried that at Yale academics will be overly intense and the atmosphere too cutthroat. Additionally, I'm contemplating either law school or a PhD program at another top university for after my undergrad, which would require a high GPA. But at UNC, I'm worried that there won't be as much intellectual diversity or post-graduation opportunities that Yale would offer. Does anybody have any experience/insight/opinion surrounding this sort of situation? (By the way, I lean toward the humanities and social sciences: international relations, economics, English).</p>

<p>One last thing: while, of course, there is a large monetary difference between the two choices, money is not a critical factor.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

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<p>“Yale academics will be overly intense and the atmosphere too cutthroat”</p>

<p>Yale academics will be as intense as you make them to be. Will you be challenged? Absolutely. Do people weasel their way around with Bs only? Yep. Is there also a comfortable in-between that encourages people to explore and take risks? Yes. The atmosphere is not cutthroat at all. Quite the opposite.</p>

<p>The intellectual diversity is a great factor as is the Residential college system. If possible please go to Bulldog days (April 16-18).</p>

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<p>I’m a Yale parent, not a student, but one of my son’s favorite things about Yale is that it is not a cutthroat place. Students are very serious about their academics and activities, but in part because of the phenomenal housing system, they are uncommonly happy – collaborative rather than competitive. Can you go to Bulldog Days and experience it for yourself?</p>

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<p>If you intend to do a PhD, you can go anywhere.</p>

<p>If you want to do law, Yale would be better. Yale law admits more of their students than any other school. Yale degree will have more cache with other top law schools.</p>

<p>The fact that you got a prestigious scholarship for undergrad might still help your law school application but aiming for top law schools vs just a law school is impacted by where you do undergrad.</p>

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If this is really true, Yale is the better choice. It’s awfully tempting, of course. If you do choose UNC, make your parents buy you a car. A nice one.</p>

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<p>Preferably one in 200k range?</p>

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<p>Thank you to those who responded!</p>

<p>@T26E4 and wjb: I will be attending Bulldog Days, and I’ll be sure to keep what you have said in mind. Students at Yale do seem to be friendlier than I had imagined (I apologize for the stereotype), which has been a joyful relief.</p>

<p>@texaspg and everyone else: I suppose that the main issue is expense. My background is upper middle class, so though I wouldn’t qualify for financial aid, the expense of attending Yale as an undergrad and then another top tier graduate school (for law school, an MBA or Phd) is daunting. </p>

<p>Does anybody know the expense that can be associated with law school or a Phd program? Are fellowships/scholarships for law school or MBA programs difficult to find? My understanding is that Phd students don’t pay tuition but work intensively for a professor; but then again, I just figured out this undergraduate ordeal, so I don’t know much.</p>

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<p>In my opinion, it is not worth doing a PhD if it is not funded. Outside of the preliminary classes, it is essentially hard labor for 3-4 years (75 hours/week of work usually).</p>

<p>You can assume 75k + per year at a top school for law.</p>

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<p>Aside from the point about Yale Law admitting more students who completed their undergraduate degrees at Yale College as opposed to any other school, with which I neither agree nor disagree because I lack information, the rest is completely incorrect.</p>

<p>The prestige of your undergraduate institution is insignificant in law school admissions. The scholarship would probably also be discounted (since admissions directors know it was probably given on the basis of your high school record). What matters in law school admissions is a high GPA and a high LSAT score. Everything else matters very little save for major awards (e.g. Rhodes, Marshall, etc.) and other extraordinary accomplishments. Of the other factors, the things that may help a borderline candidate are work experience, exceptionally strong personal statement, and exceptionally strong letters of recommendation.</p>

<p>If you are definitely going to law school or graduate school, I would choose the money. If you only think you want to go to law school or graduate school, I might still choose the money but I would also consider the additional opportunities that Yale will give you if you decide not to go to law school or graduate school.</p>

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<p>@ YaleAlumnus: Thank you so much for your advice. When you mention considering “the additional opportunities that Yale will give you if you decide not to go to law school or graduate school,” to what do you refer to? Perhaps my own problem is that I think of education as being too linear (aka, undergrad then Phd or MBA). Maybe I’m missing part of the picture. </p>

<p>On a more general note, I’ll be visiting Yale’s campus next week to take a peek at the student body and so forth. I’m apprehensive of attending UNC exclusively because of the money, given the potential regret or embitterment I might feel later on and the fact that if I do secure a well funded Phd program or graduate education afterwards, then my sacrifice will have been in vain. That said, I still have a week or so to investigate more.</p>

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<p>Probably connections, resources, etc. (I can’t speak specifically for Yale, but since HYPS all have very successful and diverse alumni and have endowments bigger than some countries’ GDP’s, I don’t think it matters that I don’t go to Y specifically.)</p>

<p>(a) Connections: Top schools have alumni all over the world and in all different types of work. While UNC also has a far-reaching alumni base, its alumni connections nevertheless fade the farther you get from NC, whereas it’s the norm to leave Y and head to, say, the West Coast or DC or, hell, the Middle East for work. They also go into widely varying fields of work (again, that’s the case at UNC, but to a lesser extent, as fewer people leave the state after graduation). This all adds up to more people you can call when you’re looking for work with just your BA.</p>

<p>(b) Resources: At UNC, your individual education would be cheaper. But at Y (at least drawing from my own experience at P), there’s more of an overall sense of, “We’ll fund anything you put your mind to.” Clubs and student groups go on trips across the US, to Europe, to the Philipines, etc on the university’s dime. Funding can be found for almost any new project, summer experience, or even post-grad plans you have. So while Y might cost more, there will also be more you–and your peers–can do academically and extracurricularly because Y will be able to support you. This will make for a radically different “feeling” undergrad experience as well as a different resume in the sense that you can do so much.</p>

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<p>This has been a very helpful thread. I’d like to thank all those who posted responses to the OP’s question.</p>

<p>We were in a similar situation to newengland321 this past month. Scholarship for full tuition, room/board, summer research stipend for 4 years at a small LAC. Probably worth about $240,000 ($60K x 4yrs). Plus, acceptances to several fantastic colleges with a variety of scholarship amounts. Only applied to 2 ivey’s - Yale and U of Penn which offer only need-based FA, which was helpful, but really cover only about 50% of the cost. </p>

<p>Although delighted to have so many excellent options, we have spent most of April agonizing over this decision. We have talked to a lot of people including several Yale alumni and alumni of the other college. Every extended family member, classroom teacher, and friend has weighed in with their opinion on “Yale vs. free”. </p>

<p>After all the research, talking, arguing and back-and-forth, we have realized that the amazing opportunities offered at Yale far outweigh the negatives of the higher cost, at least for our kiddo. Bull Dog days definitely sealed the deal as Yale felt like home. No other college even came close. As a middle class family, it won’t be easy for us financially, but it is doable. I know we can survive this, as we have survived extended unemployment and much worse. The money comes in, the money goes out. It’s like the water cycle. Rain and melting snow feed the rivers, passes thru us (quite literally), back to ocean, evaporates up to the clouds to make more rain & snow. It’s the same with money. It comes in, then it goes out. You don’t get to hold onto it for very long. </p>

<p>In the end, hubby and I will leave this planet with only the birthday suit we came in with. How much better to give our kiddo this amazing investment in their future, right now, when there is the opportunity for it to be life-changing for them. Over the course of a lifetime cars, houses, and many material things will come and go. But your mind, your thoughts, your experiences, what you know, and the essence of who you are, are always with you. The 4 years of undergrad college (age 18-22) is truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Grad school is a totally different animal. </p>

<p>I fully expect the next 4 years at Yale will be truly amazing. I can’t wait to watch this remarkable journey unfold, and cheer my kiddo on from the sidelines. Talk about the joy of parenting. This is it!</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t condone that kind of debt for any school but obviously that’s a personal choice. That being said, I’m sure your kiddo will love Yale as much as my son does. It is an amazing school with plentiful opportunities both academically and socially.</p>

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<p>Nice post, tugtraveller, and congratulations to your son! I’m with you; I can’t think of a better investment than my children’s education. And Yale is simply splendid.</p>

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<p>yalealumnus is right about onething - not knowing how Yale law admissions work. </p>

<p>Anyone can get into a law school with a high GPA and a high LSAT score. Which law school they go to does matter though to see how they fare after graduation.</p>

<p>Looking at the article below - fully 50% of the Yale law students come from 9 schools, 8 of them Ivies. So pedigree does seem to matter at the nation’s number 1 law school.</p>

<p>[UP</a> CLOSE | Tracing the elite law cycle | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/apr/18/tracing-the-elite-law-cycle/]UP”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/apr/18/tracing-the-elite-law-cycle/)</p>

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Rather, your choice was Yale for half price vs. free at another school. I sometimes wonder whether we’d think about need-based financial aid differently if we referred to it as a discount.</p>

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<p>^I missed that part. </p>

<p>Most Americans take on a reasonable amount of debt to buy a home, buy new cars etc. I don’t understand why so many parents refuse to consider taking on a reasonable amount of debt to pay for college. We’re a full freight family. Is it somewhat painful? You bet. But I am so happy to be able to give the gift of Yale to my child. I would gladly take on a manageable amount of debt and/or forego other “stuff” to send my kid to Yale vs. another school that was offering a full ride. The key for each family, of course, is determining what is reasonable.</p>

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<p>The information you cite provides no insight. Self-selection probably accounts for most (if not all) of the perceived pedigree boost. That is, self-selection of the best high school students going to the best colleges and self-selection of graduates of Ivy League and other top universities applying to the law schools of those universities.</p>

<p>Anyone who chooses a college based on their future prospect of getting into Yale Law should not be going to college at all.</p>

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<p>Yale law school has less than 10% acceptance rate. </p>

<p>All you have to do is go see the list of last year’s admitted student’s colleges which are at 74 and so clearly not limited to ivy league + stanford in self selection process.</p>

<p>50% of seats going to 9 schools or 25-30% going to just two schools shows where the preference for admissions is and has nothing to do with self selection process of applicants.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/profile.htm[/url]”>http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/profile.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There is an actual declaration by the dean of admissions floating around here somewhere as to why the preference exists in the Yale law admissions.</p>

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<p>texaspg:</p>

<p>I’ve encountered similar claims to YaleAlumnus in reference to medical school admissions too. My Ivy med school was very heavily weighted with undergraduates from the top-20 schools and yet it is near dogma on these boards that going to a third tier school to get a high GPA makes more sense than a first tier school where the competition with your peers is greater. Self selection or causation? A reasonable person would say that those who perform well at the most selective UG schools are favored in the admissions process.</p>