<p>btw, I'm not a Harvard wannabe, I'm a Boondock Saints wannabe. :)</p>
<p>"California1600: Most people pick Columbia and UPenn over Berkeley. People DEFINITELY pick Princeton over Berkeley. "</p>
<p>LOL ! this is undoubtedly true, however, I would place Berkeley amongst the lower Ivy league and Duke, and not lower than them.</p>
<p>yeah... not putting duke at least with the chicago, columbia, upenn group shows that you're not really keeping up with your college info. you're stuck in the early 90s or something. get with the times! duke is a top school.</p>
<p>What are you talking about? I ranked Duke appropriately. </p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li>Brown</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>UC Berkeley</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins</li>
<li>University of Chicago</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
</ol>
<p>Networking Rankings
(Buddy Rankings)</p>
<ol>
<li>Harvard </li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Duke</li>
<li>USC</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>U Pen </li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Berkeley (60% Asian Student Body )</li>
</ol>
<p>Academic Rankings</p>
<p>1.Berkeley
2.MIT
3.UCLA
4.Stanford
5.Michigan
6.Wisconsin
7.UCSD
8.Chicago
9.Caltech
10.Harvard</p>
<p>Professional Schools Rankings.(L-School, B-School, M-School)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Harvard</p></li>
<li><p>Stanford</p></li>
<li><p>Yale</p></li>
<li><p>Columiba</p></li>
<li><p>Duke</p></li>
<li><p>UCLA </p></li>
<li><p>Cornell</p></li>
<li><p>NU</p></li>
<li><p>Chicago</p></li>
<li><p>USC</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Berkeley( NO Med School)</p>
<p>You put Harvard at the bottom? You're crazy LOL !!!</p>
<p>R&D Amount(Year 2002-2003)</p>
<p>UCLA 788 Million</p>
<p>Michigan 674 Million</p>
<p>Wisconsin 662 Million</p>
<p>UCSD 585 Million</p>
<p>Stanford 538 Million</p>
<p>Berkeley 474 Million</p>
<p>MIT 455MIllion</p>
<p>UI Urbana 427 Million</p>
<p>Harvard 401 Million</p>
<p>Yale 354 Million</p>
<p>Princeton 164 Million</p>
<p>Cotodecasa - Berkeley med is considered to be UCSF. </p>
<p>Everyone, maybe you guys brainwashed today picked UPenn over Berkeley. I picked Berkeley over UPenn back in the mid 90's. Princeton, as an Asian American activist, I would rather go to UCLA over Princeton. Like I said, its my personal preference. </p>
<p>This girl I know picked UCSD for her PhD in Chinese history over Harvard. Because UCSD had a better department in Chinese history. Prestige is an illusion, and it always changes day in day out. After the London Times ranking came out, many people's "illusion" changed for Berkeley.</p>
<p>I do not regret my decision to go to Berkeley. I would be happy if I could spend the rest of my life living in Berkeley or the Bay Area. I've seen the rest of the US, and that is my opinion. I hate to make people who didn't live my life feel bad, but remember that racial relations are the best in the Bay Area. And guess why that is?</p>
<p>Woah I did not know Wisconsin Madison had that much research goin on. Very very interesting. UCSD, I am not surprised at all. There are lots of brilliant students at UCSD that would challenge and surpass many ivy league students.</p>
<p>UCSD is not ivy-caliber. That's absurd.</p>
<p>^ I never said UCSD is as good as Harvard. I said there are a lot of brilliant students at UCSD that would be equal in intellect and pure intelligence as most of the ivy league students.</p>
<p>What this means is that if you were hiring, there are more smart people at UCSD than you might have suspected.</p>
<p>Professional Schools Rankings.(L-School, B-School, M-School)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Berkeley (+UCSF)</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard</p></li>
<li><p>Stanford</p></li>
<li><p>UCLA</p></li>
<li><p>Columiba</p></li>
<li><p>Duke</p></li>
<li><p>Yale ( I've never heard of Yale B-school) </p></li>
<li><p>Cornell</p></li>
<li><p>NU</p></li>
<li><p>Chicago </p></li>
<li><p>USC</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Berkeley( NO Med School)</p>
<p>Professional Schools Rankings.(L-School, B-School, M-School)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Berkeley (+UCSF) M-10+ L -8, B-8</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard M-9, L-7, B-9</p></li>
</ol>
<p>(According to Jurist rankings HL is not ranked high.)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Stanford M-8, L-8, B-9</p></li>
<li><p>UCLA M-10, L-7, B-7</p></li>
<li><p>Columiba M-8, L-8, B-7</p></li>
<li><p>Duke </p></li>
<li><p>Yale ( I've never heard of Yale B-school) </p></li>
<li><p>Cornell</p></li>
<li><p>NU</p></li>
<li><p>Chicago </p></li>
<li><p>USC</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Berkeley( NO Med School)
Princeton is like LAC to me.</p>
<p>Rooster, I would definitely not put Stanford so high. I'm very familiar with this school, grew up near it. In certain areas it is quite strong, & deserves a ranking in those areas above Yale & Harvard, & maybe above Princeton. But overall, Princeton trumps Stanford in the strength of many more departments. My personal opinion is that Penn trumps Duke, as well. Like Princeton over Stanford, Penn is more comprehensively excellent, in my view, than Duke. JMO.</p>
<p>You opened up yourself to attack there my friend. Princeton, Harvard, and Yale have the suckiest engineering programs imaginable. Stanford has one of the strongest. </p>
<p>Stanford also has incredible humanities departments. Most people are familiar with the Stanford Prison Experiment and with the writings of John Steinbeck.
Stanford is in fact the only university that is good at everything....from every academic department to athletics. Engineering is the achilles heel of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Weak graduate programs is another achilles heel of Princeton. </p>
<p>Stanford is the only well-rounded, strong-in-every-department university. Berkeley is also well-rounded, but it isn't as good as Stanford for its undergrad.</p>
<p>This is VERY TRUE, Stanford IS the most well-rounded school of the highest prestige</p>
<p>Well said, rooster. I recently read "The Hours" by the acclaimed novelist Michael Cunningham; a winner of the Pulitzer Prize and PEN/Faulker Award, Michael received his BA in English literature from Stanford.</p>
<p>First off, I am not surprised to hear the story that somebody might choose UCSD over Harvard for a PhD. I have always said that not just Berkeley, but the UC's in general, are very strong places to get your PhD. But that obviously doens't mean that you should pick a UC over Harvard for undergrad.</p>
<p>I also agree that there are lots of brilliant students at UCSD, possibly comparable to the number of brilliant students at an Ivy. But again, the problem is, let's face it, there are also lots of less-than-brilliant students at UCSD. Since California1600 is a PEIS major, I'm sure he's familiar with the concept of market signalling. Basically, if you're an employer and you want to recruit some college graduates, the basic problem you run into is that you won't be able to tell off the bat who is good and who isn't. Everybody is going to try to seem as if they are good, but you know for a fact that many of them are actually not good. So if you show up to UCSD, sure, there are lots of very good students. On the other hand, there are also lots of not-so-good students who will try to appear to you as if they are good students. Nor can you use GPA as a perfect indicator of who is good because some wily (but not-so-good) UCSD students will deliberately go and take super-easy classes to boost their GPA (and certain really unethical UCSD students will simply lie about their GPA and if you ask them for a transcript, will create a forged one). The point is that if you go to UCSD to recruit, you will run into the problem of trying to figure out who is good and who is not good. You can figure it out, but it will take a lot of effort. It's easier simply to go recruit at someplace like Harvard where practically everybody is good. Again, to illustrate, it's safer for you to recruit at a place where 95% of the students are good then at a place where 25% of the students are good, even if, because of large class size, that 25% of good students represents a larger absolute number of good students. </p>
<p>I would also ask the question of if UCSF is considered to be Berkeley's medical school, then is it fair to say that MIT's law school is considered to be Harvard Law, and MIT's medical school is considered to be Harvard Medical? If not, why not? Is Caltech's medical school = UCLA Med? Again, if not, why not? If Berkeley can supposedly claim UCSF as its medical school, then why not? </p>
<p>Finally, I would point out that while we can talk about well-roundedness all day and all night, for the purposes of where you should go to study for a particular program, does it really matter? Are you going to attend a particular program at one school just because the school has other very strong programs which have nothing to do with you? For example, UCSF is clearly a very poorly-rounded school, because it basically competes in only one field (health services). So does that mean that if I get into UCSF Medical, I should turn it down in favor of Stanford Medical on the grounds that UCSF is not well-rounded? What if I get into Johns Hopkins Medical or WUSL Medical - should I also turn that down for Stanford Medical on the grounds that Stanford University is more well-rounded than Johns Hopkins University or WUSL?</p>
<p>I suppose if you honestly feel that way, then it's your right. As for myself, I would say that when you're an undergrad, you should worry about undergrad, and when you're a graduate student in X, you should worry about the programs in X regardless of what is happening at other programs at a particular school that have nothing to do with what you want to study. For example, if a guy went to Williams College for undergrad, and then UCSF for medical-school, it would be hard for me to argue that this guy didn't receive one of the finest educations in the world.</p>