<p>Take off your big red shoes.</p>
<p>This is why CC is so valuable. I get the “How do you know that?” routine all the time. I just listened to the wise folks here and did research!</p>
<p>I have thought more than once about starting a business to share everything I’ve learned between CC and two very different kids - one top 10% and one with a learning disability. Luckilly my sons guidance counselor was very knowledgable, but I have given lots of valuable advice to parents that don’t have the same wonderful guidance counselor that we have.</p>
<p>Our HS had a “career center” that was more like a library. The counselor there had everything from aptitude tests to military information to college info. They also coordinated all the college visits to the HS. It was open one evening a week for parents to use, too. I never used it. The kids just registered for the school visits they were interested in. Mostly the center just knew about the state schools. When DD (my 4th) was graduating she finally saw me and gushed that she was so happy to get another student into Rice. No clue what it took though for music instead of academics. </p>
<p>BTW the GCs did keep track of schools where students were accepted if they reported them into them. It was published in the student newspaper, too. If they did not report then all the GC knew was were they finally decided to go to send final grades. Not sure if there is a way for GC to know otherwise. Most kids did not report were they were rejected.</p>
<p>Probably best to avoid this person, other than emailing her to
confirm that whatever she is required to do with the application
has been done. She may well be a nice well intentioned person
but it is best to ignore her.</p>
<p>D’s school has one college counselor in addition to the regular guidance counselors. She is best known for telling everyone they won’t get into the schools on their lists. Although she does tend to know more about the college admissions process than the average guidance counselor, and she does have some contacts at various colleges, I don’t think she knows more than a well informed parent who has spent a lot of time on CC. There are a lot of uninformed students and parents out there, though, and I’m sure she can help them a great deal.</p>
<p>As for private counselors, my friend used one for her daughter this past year, and it was a total disaster. The counselor seriously underestimed the student, recommended schools that weren’t appropriate and made the girl’s essay worse with her suggested edits. Friend had her D stop going to the counselor and they came up with their own list of schools and her D got into a school the private counselor said was a high reach for her (I knew it was a match from info gleaned from CC) and got decent merit aid there as well. This was a counselor who came highly recommended by several people. I’m hopeful she was not representative of most private college counselors, but based on my friend’s experience, I would never use one. With what I’ve learned on CC, I don’t think I would need one.</p>
<p>Students at my sons’ school have to “check out” before they can graduate. Checking out includes entering acceptances and college decisions into Naviance, and paying $1 to the registrar to send a final transcript to the college the students will attend. This ensures that Naviance is up to date, and also ensures that there’s no last minute panic after the registrar’s office is closed for the summer. The final issue of the student newspaper includes a map of where all students will be the year after graduation; the map includes colleges, travel, or gap year plans.</p>
<p>College counselor at my sons’ school: not extremely helpful, gave flat-out wrong information about a FAFSA question, maintains a good library of college material. I’ve found CC to be a better source of college advice and information.</p>
<p>Be happy you have that much support. My Guidance Counselor didn’t know what a LAC was until I explained it to her. She also tried to discourage me from applying to any private school because they were too expensive. When I explained FinAid to her she said that it was a myth that never happened. She then sent one of my Recs to Cornell University instead of Cornell College. Luckily I got that straightened out…</p>
<p>yeah… count your blessings.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE=speedo]
She may well be a nice well intentioned person but it is best to ignore her.
[/quote]
Why? RTR’s main complaint was just that she didn’t offer any information that was “new and different” from what RTR’s already gleaned on CC. She may not be familiar with some aspects of the process for tippy-top students applying to tippy-top schools, but she is someone who will be influential in the process and can be a strong ally. IMHO, ignoring the college counselor is a good way to get tepid recs from someone who doesn’t know you very well.</p>
<p>Is this a private or public school? What size and in what type of $$ region (estimate of average income or home value)?</p>
<p>All of these posts are very similar to our experience. We had to step back and take a good look at the college counselor’s role early. One of my daughters hit the nail on the head. This counselor had 500 students graduating this year. Just the paperwork alone (recs, transcripts, etc) was more than a full time job for her and her secretary. The girls became friends with the secretary and turned in or requested items from the office well before deadlines. When the girls produced mountains of work for in the form of scholarship applications, the secretary was on top of it. She really took care of the girls.</p>
<p>So, my suggestion is to find out the capabilities of the college department early and figure out how to maximize their benefit for your children. It is what it is. Yes, we really could have used some guidance. But we had to look elsewhere (CC) for this. It all worked out fine. We didn’t let our frustration show through and I think this really helped.</p>
<p>RTR, at least you’ve educated the counselor a bit, so some good may come out of your meeting - for other students. If I’m reading correctly, this is a counselor with specific responsibility for college admissions. In that case, she does seem to come up short, particularly in her understanding of standardized test results. I’ve never thought that public hs guidance counselors were obligated to be the final word on college admissions, since they clearly have so much else to do, and college information is so readily accessible today to anyone with a computer. But someone whose job is “college counselor” should have been more informed, whether or not she works at a public school. </p>
<p>I’m glad to see she hammered home the difference between ED and EA, since so many people seem not to get it at all (or so we read each spring).
I think it depends on what kind of professional help is sought or provided. In our hs, English teachers (and even my ds’ sainted GC) offer to look over essays and point out errors (“Peace Core” would not happen here). I see absolutely nothing unethical about this. Even a private counselor might read an essay and go over it with the student, saying, “I don’t understand this … this is redundant … you have a grammatical error here…” etc. Professional help doesn’t have to mean ghost-writing. And I’ve also wondered whether it’s true that adcoms can tell when an adult has written a student’s essay. We don’t know why students are rejected, so we don’t know whether that might be the reason. But apparently a lot of adults do write those essays. </p>
<p>This woman is not going to be the resource you probably hoped for, but you have CC and your own pool of knowledge on your side.</p>
<p>Perhaps it isn’t an issue for the OP, but my question is:</p>
<p>Where was the counsel about running financial aid calculators to get an estimate for the family EFC? </p>
<p>For crying out loud, we are in a world-wide financial crisis. We don’t know how long it will last. We don’t know how badly each of us will be affected by it. BUT we do know that many, many, many families have already had to alter the college lists that their children have started to make. AND we also know that many, many families have had to alter those lists very late in the game - sometimes even after the acceptances have come in.</p>
<p>And yes, I have this beef about Happykid’s school too. Fancy, detailed college application package. Lots of info. Not one single comment about money beyond “Don’t forget to file the FAFSA”.</p>
<p>It never occurred to us to rely on our school’s one GC. We stayed in touch with him about what we were doing, and he wrote the required GC letters. If he had a suggestion, we politely thanked him and said we would look into it, and then didn’t. He didn’t know much at all, but we also didn’t alienate him. He was a nice man, but overwhelmed, and his knowledge was-er - dated. (Actually, he didn’t even use a computer at all, if you want a good story).</p>
<p>But the whole process wasn’t a problem at all.</p>
<p>Applying to college isn’t that big a deal, really. Choosing a few schools that are matches, reaches and safeties is not that difficult. The common application makes things simple. I agree that looking into financial aid can make things a little more complex, but that info is easily accessible too.</p>
<p>With the knowledge that you apparently have, I don’t understand why the GC is an issue at all. Your child can decide on where to apply and can do most of it on his or her own, with your guidance in the background,</p>
<p>Like so many others have reported, the college counselors at our local high schools were severely limited in the information they could provide. Like so many others on CC, I had to pretty much rely on my own search for information and when I discovered this site found it to be a godsend. After my own kids were settled away in college, I was left with a huge pile of information and after talking with a few friends who had younger children I constantly heard “if I’d only known”. We have a local university and most GCs directed the kids there. We had kids applying to Ivies and the local public with no middle ground - mostly because the majority of colleges and universities outside our area were basically unknowns. So, I gathered up and organized my info and put together a ppt and headed off to our district’s central office. They were impressed. The hs counselors were impressed. Now every year I give a workshop at each of the high schools for collegebound students AND their parents. Every year I help organize kids to attend the college fair where around 200 schools showcase their material. The school district pays me for the workshops and pays for the buses for the kids to attend the fair. The big payoff, however, is that more kids and parents and GCs are now better informed. (We do have one facilitator/counselor who does the most superb job one could ever expect finding and getting kids into top colleges, but she is already stretched beyond her limit.) So, informed CC parents, I say go for it. You will not get rich in $$ but the reward will be the thanks your receive from the students and parents. And don’t forget to mention the CC website. ;)</p>
<p>When I asked my Ds GC if she knew anything about an program in a particular university my D was interested in, she said “it was hard to get into.” No s*** Sherlock!
We never asked another question and with the research we did on CC and the info available here, she’s going to that program in the fall. We figured out a terrific list of reach , match and safety and read between the lines on college websites. Look, no one is more invested in your child’s success than you are, so just do it yourself.</p>
<p>yeah, just do it yourself, counting on your GC for only the standard administrative paper shuffling.
We had a similar experience. Sweet lady. Really young…and green. Didn’t know much. Then again, I am a TYPE A info sponge so it really wasn’t a surprise that I knew more than her!</p>
<p>One HS GC did not tell junior parents about the EFC calculators available. Never mentioned Common App. Told parents that “if you can’t afford an Ivy, tell your kids now” – did not know that if you win the golden ticket, Ivies can offer some of the best FA deals around. Never mentioned SAT-IIs. Did not even ask one of my kids where he was considering applying. Did not want to meet with parents privately, though was profuse with compliments on the thoroughness with which S and I each preapred our “brag sheets” so the GC could write a rec letter.</p>
<p>GC (at different school) for other son met with him and us for an hour and a half. Knew about every school on his list except one (a West Coast LAC). Had good advice about what to disclose and whether or not it would be useful info. Update her rec letter/contacted colleges when S got some big awards – without our prompting. Everything went out from teh sdchool in good order and nothing was lost. </p>
<p>Both are public schools with >2000 kids.</p>
<p>“But what I really want to know is what the private counselors do that is special”</p>
<p>The only inherently special thing about private counselors is that they will give your family as much time as you pay for, which most school counselors cannot do. Private counselors as a group are exactly like school counselors…some are fabulous, some are incompetent, and most are in between. If you have a useless school counselor, and you find a fabulous private counselor who has exactly the expertise your family needs, then that’s what’s special about the private counselor. </p>
<p>As for adcoms being able to detect adult involvement, I am sure that they are able to detect clumsy, heavy-handed adult involvement. Expert guidance that helps the student produce THEIR best writing is a different story. I’ve helped all of my students with their essays and watched most of them get into their dream schools.</p>
<p>Ever heard the phrase, If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself?</p>
<p>I learned the hard way when applying to colleges myself, if I didn’t go out looking for scholarships, I wasn’t going to get them. All those girls with lesser stats than me walked across the stage with all kinds of scholarships because their parents, or maybe even the guidance counselors, at their prodding, researched them. </p>
<p>When you have a GC that discourages you from looking outside your geographic region, not to apply to a school because “not even our valedictorians can get in there”, you know you have to do it yourself.</p>
<p>And yes, this is at a private, Catholic school, so it’s not a “you get what you paid for” proposition.</p>