<p>Good article from SmartMoney on college prep advisors.</p>
<p>10</a> Things College-Prep Advisors Won't Tell You at SmartMoney.com</p>
<p>I don’t really see the value in hiring someone. I have always enjoyed researching myself–and of course, reading CC. However, I have yet to meet a guidance counselor who can give individual counseling to students. Out public schools fall into the 400+ schools the article mentioned, and even the prep school counselors in the pricey schools are overwhelmed once the application season rolls around. I do like the $375 an hour. Perhaps I should change jobs.</p>
<p>Ditto MD Mom’s remarks. An educated consumer is the best customer. Do some legwork on your own because no matter what you pay for counseling services, there’s no guarantee getting your first choice, if you’re aiming high.</p>
<p>^I was much more informed about specifics of my D’s application process than her very good college conselor. Nobody should rely on somebody else who has that many kids to take care of (in D’s case, she had only 32 classmates, though, still a lot). D. ended up in a program that I found for her. She went to several interviews for various programs where we met a lot of parents and discovered that most of thme were completely uninformed, even lack information for programs in their own cities. These parents were planning to pay for college, I was completely surprized that they would not research what is the best/most fitting for their kids college education that they are going to pay for. It is much more in most cases than buying a car and most car buyers are much better informed about potential car than the same people about potential college for their kids. Does not make any sense. We did not hire anybody for college research.</p>
<p>I also cannot fathom the reason to hire someone to do something I enjoy doing. Everything one needs to know about the college search is either on-line, in a book or right here on College Confidential!</p>
<p>Our high school’s guidance counselor’s daughter is applying to college this year, and the guidance counselor is asking for my wife’s advice on how to get her into high-end schools. She is asking us? Isn’t that backwards? Probably because she knows we have had good success in getting our daughters into good colleges. That’s what reading CC can do for you. You’ll end up knowing more than professional guidance counselors.</p>
<p>I didn’t find my S’s high school guidance department very helpful so we used an advisor who spent time getting to know my son, his interests and what we had already explored on our own. He was a former Ad Comm member at Dartmouth. He also provided guidance with the essays but was very clear that he would only comment on what was written he would not write the essays for my son. Overall I found it worthwhile but we were still very engaged in research and visiting potential colleges. This will all change in about 5 years since we have already hit the peak of # of high school seniors seeking admission. That peak was the class of 2009 and from this point forward it will drop for the forseeable future. We may even hit bottom like the years 1979 -1984 when it was the easiest to get into an Ivy League school and those shools were actively recruiting students.</p>
<p>The article brings up an interesting point…starting in 8-9th grade-rather than 11th after taking the SAT…which can mean the students middle school counselor really plays a much more important part in the academic development track.
I remember attending a PTA meeting where a parent encouraged other parents to talk to our student/s’ math teacher in 6th grade to determine whether they should take algerbra in the 7th grade and geometry in the 8th grade.That was soooo far off my radar screen that I looked like a deer in the headlights. The next day I made an appointment with the math teacher and DD’s counselor!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh, well, he concluded so.</p>
<p>As I understand it, Dan Saracino also possesses gaydar, knows who is a bleached blond, and has a trick knee that tells him when the rains are a-coming.</p>
<p>Never-the-less, I’d really like to see a study which backs up the claims of admissions officers regarding their own abilities. How often are their ‘conclusions’ actually just unfounded assumptions?</p>
<p>It may well be that they merely have an interest in convincing applicants that they have these powers.</p>
<p>To be upfront, I am an independent college counselor. I can’t help but comment on this part of the article in the link:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have nothing but respect for high school guidance counselors. But no matter how fantastic he or she may be, he/she has far more students, as well as other job responsibilities, than someone like me. There is no possible way that someone in that position can devote the type or amount of individual attention I can do with a family. I can’t begin to tell you of the hours spent per child and per parent, often on a daily basis. There is no possible way a GC could help as in depth that an independent counselor can do.</p>
<p>^Angrydad, I agree. My daughter, an award-winning writer, got an absurdly low grade on the SAT essay. Her grades, SAT V, AP, etc. were all eons higher, but I always worried about some adcom seeing that one outlier mark and calling everything else into question through his fine detective work. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I don’t think that a student who has consistently gotten great grades in English and won writing awards and has great essays necessarily gets the evil eye from a suspicious admissions officer because she got a 6 on the SAT essay.</p>
<p>But the kid that has marginal English grades, a 6 on the SAT essay, and no indications from teacher recs or extracurricular involvement that the kid is a fabulous writer – well, if you were an admissions officer and saw fabulous essays in this kid’s application packet, wouldn’t you be right to wonder?</p>
<p>From the SmartMoney article:</p>
<p>“The exception would be if your child’s high school has significantly more than 50 or 60 students per guidance counselor—say, 400. In that case, you’d probably want to consider getting a college counselor, says David Burke, director of college counseling at Pembroke Hill School in Kansas City, Mo., and a former admissions officer at Dartmouth.”</p>
<p>Significantly more than 50 or 60 students per guidance counselor! I am unaware of any public high schools in this area that have the luxury of assigning 50 or 60 students per counselor. Wait, there is one school that graduated 52 seniors last year. But then there were those 175 freshmen, sophomores and juniors, not to mention the middle schoolers who the single guidance counselor had to deal with. </p>
<p>I do think if you are the typical CCer you can probably be your child’s own college counselor – if they are willing to let you – but a private counselor might be a good idea for parents unwilling to invest the time or insecure in their ability to conduct research who do have the money.</p>
<p>The American School Counselor Association considers a ratio of 100 students to each counselor to be “optimal," that ratio is closer to 1,000 to 1 in California’s public schools; 700 to 1 in Arizona, Minnesota, Utah and the District of Columbia; and 265 to 1 nationally. My kids’ school has 2350 students and 9 counselors. With that ratio, I did my own research, but also hired a modestly-priced counselor halfway through junior year, mostly to help identify good-fitting schools that I may not have been aware of. It did help clarify things somewhat.</p>
<p>Our kids GC had very little time (though she did give SOME good advice). OTOH, if the benefit of an independent coach is only there if they spend a lot of time (and I suspect it is, especially for an unusual kid) with your kid - then you have to A. Spend LOTS of $$$ and B. Spend a lot of the kids time. Every hour the kid is with the counselor is one that they are not doing homework, not doing EC’s, etc. Again, not saying the coach is good for no one. I do think that the pressure to use a coach (and where we are, there was such pressure) may be excessive</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Exactly, Angry Dad! It’s a shame that a kid might have to dumb down his or her essay for fear that the adcoms might mistakenly think that the essay had professional help.</p>
<p>Plus–a professional would surely cover his tracks better and would be careful to avoid words that would make most people scurry for a dictionary.</p>
<p>[Yep, I had to look up solipsism…]</p>
<p>Every family has different needs…
We hired a moderate college advisor for many reasons, namely two very different kids.
WIth D, her HS counselor had been in that position two years. I felt I knew more from my own research than he did, just not enough for complete comfort level.<br>
Advisor really worked to get the best FIT. She suggested a CC Top U–nowhere on our radar, which D visited under protest. D is presently sophmore and it really was the perfect school for her needs. Advisor was not needed by D for any help with apps, essays, etc.
WIth S, we had big lack of confidence in his HS counselor, who does not like to push or “stress” LD kids, which S has given the idea that minimal effort is good enough. Argh!
I was not well versed on LD and the college scene, which Advisor was.
I knew the college process could go downhill quickly with S and I. He would argue, delay, ignore my requests or suggestions and we would both be stressed.
But with the College advisor, S rose to the occasion. She got S to really focus (a struggle in an of itself) on what was important to him for the college years. He set some goals, followed the timeline they worked out, and was just more open to any of her suggestions with respect to classes, colleges, applications, etc. </p>
<p>And our relationship is intact. I couldn’t write Advisor a check fast enough…</p>
<p>I will say that doing your homework on a GOOD advisor is key. Ours had the credentials, experience; she visits close to 100 campuses per year; she doesn’t make silly, unrealistic promises…and she feels there are many excellent schools beside HYPS!</p>
<p>I wish I had the $ for a college advisor for my ld kid but am using cc instead-- well, that and word-of-mouth. I can see why parents would use advisors. Unfortunately, it seems hard to find a good one. I think it’s easier if they specialize. It’s just too hard to know everything. But, then again, the ld kid might be a sports recruit so you need someone who knows about both processes.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I find that hard to believe. Any college counselor knows better than this.</p>
<p>You said it, Angry Dad!!! Some of these admissions officials think that they’re “the Great and Powerful Oz!”</p>