Met with our school's college counselor - Wow

Parent Cafe
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<p>It’s been my experience that with any major life decision – be it college choice, finding a new house, investing for retirement, etc. – that the only way to know if a so-called “expert” is giving you sound advice is to become a semi-expert yourself. It would be hard to know if a college counselor knew his/her stuff if you didn’t have a pretty good idea what was going on already. If the expert is able to confirm what you’ve manage to figure out on your own, then you probably have someone who knows what’s up and can give you guidance on things that you might not have considered or been aware of.</p>

<p>I recently bought my sister-in-law a subscription to a financial magazine because she is using my parents-in-law’s financial advisor, and I don’t think she knows enough to determine if he is giving her good advice. I hope that she’ll read the magazine, and decide if this guy knows what he is talking about. Based on some problems my in-laws have had with their finances, I have my doubts.</p>

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<p>Let your child become the “expert”. They have to attend the college ultimately and live with the decision. My son grew up a lot through this process. He was disinterested at first; he said “you’re just going to pick the school anyway”. Wrong. When he figured out we were expecting him to make this decision, he got a lot more engaged. This process became an important period of self discovery. Micromanaging the process for the student I think can be a disservice.</p>

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<p>We’re not impressed with our son’s GCs so far. The office secretary even told him the wrong date for the make-up SAT! They came and pulled him out of class on a Monday morning to take it, even though they had said the test would be on Tuesday. He was flustered and upset, but ended up doing much better than on his first attempt, so maybe the surprise was a good thing!</p>

<p>Thank goodness for CC.</p>

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<p>Yes, private counselors who are IECA members and associates are generally more knowledgable that public school college counselors (and a lot more knowledgable than the run-of-the-mill guidance counselor). Other private counselors may or may not be exceptionally knowledgable. There are also some outstanding public school college counselors, although these seem to be clustered in the wealthier school districts around major cities. </p>

<p>There are also some extraordinarily knowledgable posters here on CC. Some are “undercover” college counselors and some are just highly intelligent, experienced parents. If you have a lot of time on your hands and are willing to put in the work CC and a lot of elbow grease will get the job done. For those who have the financial resources but not the time a private counselor may be a good option, but do your DD. For those who have an excellent public school college counselor…count your blessings.</p>

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<p>Unless you are willing to give an advisor carte blanche (whether a college or a financial advisor), you really have to spend time becoming a little familiar with the landscape to know if what the advisor is advising makes sense. I think a subscription to a financial magazine is great–after a year of reading the articles, you’ve basically gone through most of the big ticket issues. I bought one for my just graduated daughter.</p>

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Correction: most colleges these days use super scores. The UC’s are among the minority that do not, fwiw.</p>

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<p>I don’t understand the constant killing of GCs that go on here at CC. It does not matter whether you have the best or the worst college/guidance counselor on the face of the earth, I do not think that it absolves you or your child from doing **your due diligence ** and being an informed consumer, yes, you are purchasing college education. </p>

<p>There are over 3,000 colleges in the country and it is unreasonable to think that **any GC/College Counselor ** knows the admissions/financial aid process all of them off of the top of their head. I do think that we have come a long way because there is loads of information right at our finger tips.</p>

<p>With a sticker price of $200,000 for 4 years at a private college, other than the the purchase of your home, you will probably never spend this amount of money on anything else again (whether you are full freight or full FA, someone’s money is being spent) are you really going to take someone else’s word as the be all and end all? My D had a great GC however, it did not mean that I did not do my homework since I was going to be the one writing the checks.</p>

<p>Each family’s situtation and value system is different, and professionally I do not impose my value system on my students or my parents. Where I am willing to send my kids, what I am willing to borrow, pay for my kid to attend college, may not be where you are willing to send your child or what you are willing to pay for them to attend college. </p>

<p>I had a kid who turned down a 4 year EOP at SUNY(after weekly calls to get him in to the program) because they had a sibling who was going to CUNY and getting money back from their FA package and had no loans when other students with the same package, jumped at the opportunity. College admissions and financial aid are 2 things were we can say with absolute certainty that YMMV.</p>

<p>I recently spoke to one of my colleagues because she could not understand why a student would not attend college “X” that left a gap of $9,000 (plus loan) on a $46,000 price tag. I explained that the family is on a fixed income, and cannot afford the loan. She said $109.00/month is nothing. Again, I told her it is a lot for a family on a fixed income with other children to feed. At minimum, these parents are going to have $36,000 of debt in addition to ~$35,000 in student loans that the child would have. Long range, IMHO, school is not a financially feasible option for this family. I gave the GC and the student the “MY Affordability Story” sheet (thanks Calreader) and let them work the numbers out in black and white and they finally got it.</p>

<p>Even if you have a good counselor, it does not give you a buy and it does not mean that you/your child should not be active participants in the process. Our role is to advise/ counsel. It does not mean that our opinion is the be all and end all or should even remotely be taken as gospel. At my NYC public high school, there is no dedicated College Counselor. Every counselor covers soup to nuts with their caseload and unfortunately there is not enough time to adequately do everything (I have had to interupt a college advising meetings for a student who slit her writst in the girls bathroom, fights, ACS cases, etc. ). I meet with kids at 7:30 in the morning, after school, I have a separate e-mail just for my seniors which I respond to after hours/ weekend/ over the summer. When it is all said and done, you know your financial situation better than we do and you know your kid better than we do.</p>

<p>Yes, I know what superscore is, I have the list of SAT optional schools, I know every HEOP/EOP program in the state, I have written a 70 page document, which I have given to my students and their parents on the FA process (I can give a pretty good predication of a FA package at a lot of schools my students are interested in attending), I wrote college process booklet for Juniors and Seniors and I do a year long advisory for juniors on my caseload on the college process.</p>

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<p>Sybbie, I think the major point is that for most parents, not unreasonably, the GC or College Counselor is the first major source of information and that so often it is either bad or non-existent.</p>

<p>You’re right, of course, about the need for due diligence but you need to have something of an accurate clue of which way to dig and how deep before you set out with your pick and shovel.</p>

<p>Just as some families may have limited financial resources which sets limits on their choices, others may have a limited conceptual framework with which to evaluate the process.</p>

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<p>Hi Dad,</p>

<p>I understand where you are coming from and I do agree with your POV. However, there is just more than one side of the issue. I also think the bigger problem is that there is a catch -22 in high schools. Principals are also evaluted on their graduation, and the number of students that attend 2 vs. 4 year college/universities and very little of the budget is dedicated to college counseling/advising (it can be covered in our regular counseling duties, and when there is a shift in budget, it not considered necessary). </p>

<p>I don’t think any GC can adequately prep a senior for the college process from September to Nov 1 (the EA/ED deadline), but many administrators think differently. In my house, the college process started in 9th grade,I stress it to my caseload, but I cannot say that for a lot of students at my school. </p>

<p>I know a lot of kids in my school who get “fly-bys” as far as counseling concerned, becaue no news is good news, he squeaky wheels get the grease and 20% of our students are taking up 80% of our time.</p>

<p>There is an expectation that GCs come in and know college counseling, but for new counselors it is a fire baptism. College advising is not covered at least in most school counseling programs in NYC that I know about. I know my philosophy as a GC is that I want to be the kind of GC that I want my kid to have. So when I college counsel my kids, my parent cap is on my head at the same time. We have 10 GCs at my school and I am the only person who has ever had a child even go to high school so we do have a different frame of reference.</p>

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<p>all i can say is…i’m going crazy just trying to figure out the college process for one child…i do not envy any gc…with hundreds (all different levels of accomplishment, finances, expectations, ec’s, disciplinary actions, and perhaps even worse parent expectations LOL) Hats off to you sybbie!!! not a lot of contact here yet with gc but the one at son’s school is hopefully as knowledgable as you!!</p>

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<p>. . . against GC and college counselors is that bleak rush of adrenaline-fueled anxiety that floods over us when we find out some bit of seemingly critical information that somehow our GC or college counselor never informed us about or, worse, knows nothing about.</p>

<p>And that is especially grievous to the extent that we take on the job of “doing the best for our child” . . the kind of imperative has no inherent stopping rule, nothing to tell us when our interest has gradually evolved from interest to passion into obsession.</p>

<p>Then, out of the blue, comes a bit of information that proves that we are NOT doing the best for our kid . . . if we were, we’d already know what “superscoring” is and which colleges use it, which takes us down the path of restesting, which leads to research into which pre-test interventions yield the highest results, versus the risk that the retest scores may be lower on some portions, and how will that look to the 2 schools of the 14 on the list, both of which are semi-reach LACs that offer some merit aid, if the third retest shows scores going down in the writng section, but stay even in verbal . . .</p>

<p>Hard enough to handle that all oneself, until we light on the GC, a paid professional who should know all these details, then doesn’t, or even worse, pooh-poohs our intense questioning about the percentage of retakers whose scores go down in Math but are higher in verbal. </p>

<p>So we vent about those overworked, underpaid college counselors who are trying to manage the goat rodeo that is their rising junior class of close to 200 kids, most of whom want to go to college and are looking for schools with average SATs in the average range (mid 500s on each), then are hit with a parent of a kid who’s got an SAT cum of 2180 and deperately wants to get their kid above 2200 superscored, and who then asks if it would be better instead to take the ACT just for those 2 LACs, buit only if the ACT score is 31 or higher?</p>

<p>I confess that I am obsessed with college applications right now, and know that because even though my second kid to go to college is done taking standardized tests and I know more than the average bear about the subtle strengths and weaknesses of different elite LACs, I still felt the sharp pang of anxiety at not knowing what the hell superscoring was.</p>

<p>So join me in taking a chiil pill, outsourcing more of the college stuff to the kid who is going to go, and, as my religious guide says, pray that we will be protected from “all unnecessary worry, anxiety and fear.”</p>

<p>Peace</p>

<p>Kei</p>

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<p>I hope we can all agree that the parents and child must take the lead role and do most of the research and decisionmaking. As the GC poster said, it is a $200,000 decision and should be treated as such. The reference to the $200,000 amused me, however, because when my son’s GC told me he thought my son (who refused to visit more than 3 schools or take the ACT or a second SAT after a poor first result) should not be urged by him or me to change his mind, my unspoken reaction was that I bet the GC would not allow my son to make a decision concerning $200,000 of his money, so why should I?</p>

<p>CC, like all web forums, does draw many more complainers than those who have had satisfactory experiences. And I certainly sympathize with the burdens of GC and the unrealistic expectations of many parents of what the GC should do for their individual child and where their indivbidual child should be admitted.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, many of the parent complaints posted are reasonable and, in contrast to the GC who has a 70 page FA paper, most of deal with Guidance Departments which fail to do many easy but invaluable tasks, such as soliciting feedback from recent alumni about how they like their schools, or compiling 1 page papers of good regional schools for B students; schools with are generous with aid, helpful websites such as CC, etc.</p>