<p>Just skimmed through the posts this morning and misread this as “Michigan struggles to get attractive students.” Oops!</p>
<p>The Wall St Journal had an article and chart recently that shows that all major categories of colleges on the average are experiencing continuing declines in enrollment. That included public 2 years, public 4 years, for profits, and privates. Of course, the effects are concentrated upon the less selective colleges within those categories.</p>
<p>It’s a pretty interesting article. There were some posts that mentioned GVSU that I figured I should chime in on. Now I won’t know the exact enrollment numbers until early September, I’ve read that GVSU will have a very large freshmen class again. Also, MSU and UMich will have large freshmen classes. The schools that are affected like Eastern and Central have some issues. My high school alma mater in the fringe Detroit suburbs historically sends a ton of kids to Central, Macomb Community College, and Oakland University. A lot of kids are hesitating to go to Central because of the rape that was there a few months ago and the “party” culture. I’ve been to Mt. Pleasant a few times and felt safe, but to each their own. I’ve read that CMU is expecting 7% decrease in enrollment.</p>
<p>I think you can make the argument now that the state of Michigan has too many public universities. I wonder if in the future you will see some consolidation with the 15 public universities. I mean after all there is 3 public universities in the UP alone where there is like 2% of the population of the state.</p>
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<p>Correction, 3.1% of the population. The actual figure is more than 50% higher than your estimate. </p>
<p>I’m not sure the public universities in the UP will be the first to close, however, with the possible exception of Lake Superior State. Michigan Tech is probably the third strongest school academically in the state’s public higher education system. It attracts students from all parts of the state, and a good many from out of state (over 20% of its entering class). Because of its heavily engineering-oriented curriculum, it also actually places a high percentage of its graduates in well paying jobs (unlike some of the other state schools). The State of Michigan should be strengthening schools like that, not thinking about killing them. And I don’t think Northern Michigan will go because that would leave the residents of the UP hundreds of miles from the nearest public university offering teacher training, nursing, med tech training, and other basics that are needed there just as much as anywhere else.</p>
<p>A stronger case can be made for closing one of the Detroit-Ann Arbor metro area publics, probably Eastern. Wayne State has also been struggling mightily, but I think it would be politically impossible to kill off Wayne State when Detroit is otherwise bleeding so badly.</p>
<p>And over in the central and western parts of the state, you’ve got Ferris State, Central, Michigan State, Western, and Grand Valley State, all in a tight cluster, typically no more than an hour apart from one school to the next. Seems to me either Ferris or Central gets knocked out, or maybe both. Part of this is due to Grand Valley’s growth. As the state’s second-largest city, Grand Rapids itself was probably underserved without Grand Valley, but I suspect Grand Valley’s growth has eroded the student base of Western, Ferris, and Central, weakening all three.</p>
<p>Totally agree with your assessment bclintock, plus there is a fairly strong community college system on the western/northern lower side of the state with Northwestern, GRCC, etc. The population decreases are all on the eastern side of the state which really hurts Eastern and Wayne . Not to mention two colleges I had never, ever heard of despite being a Michigander until they solicited one of my kids…Saginaw Valley State University and Oakland University…so 4 universities in the Detroit Metro Area + numerous community colleges and UofM just down the road in Ann Arbor. </p>
<p>Ferris has an alliance with Kendall College of Art and Design (or merged or something) and Ferris has a pharmacy program, and a few other programs that are unique and was always the school with the career specific majors, so Central gets the short stick other than the fact that Central turns out Nurse Practioners. I could see Central and Ferris merging for cost efficiency and getting rid of duplicate majors.</p>
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<p>What’s the 3rd (Michigan Tech, Northern, and what else?) </p>
<p>Michigan Tech has a good draw from all over the state, it’s not just yoopers that go there. </p>
<p>I would also say it makes more sense to close Eastern. You’ve already got WCC and Michigan right there. Wayne State (which is not that bad of a school) is only about 30 minutes drive from Eastern, UM-Dearborn is even closer to Eastern. OU is also really close.</p>
<p>Lake Superior State is the 3rd public school in the UP. Down state is also Delta in the Bay City area which is also a state school. I think Delta and SVSU are closer to each other than Ferris and Central.</p>
<p>^ Lake Superior State is tiny, only about 2,800 students. At one time it was the Sault Ste. Marie satellite campus of Michigan Tech (“Soo Tech”) but it became independent in 1970. Outside of Sault Ste. Marie and a few hockey rivals, I’m not sure anyone would miss it if it disappeared.</p>
<p>Delta is a 2-year community college; Saginaw Valley State is the 4-year public university in the Saginaw Valley (Saginaw-Bay City-Midland) area. They serve the same area, in fact they share a zip code, and my guess is neither school draws many students from outside that immediate area, but there may be enough of a population base locally to support both a community college and a 4-year college as long as their programs don’t overlap. </p>
<p>Oakland was originally the Oakland County campus of Michigan State (“MSU-O”) but became independent in 1970 (a big “year of liberation” for Michigan public universities, apparently). It’s probably most famous for Meadow Brook Hall, the 110-room country estate of Matilda Dodge Wilson which is now part of the Oakland U campus, and for the annual summer Meadow Brook Music Festival held on campus. Like Saginaw Valley State, it’s primarily a commuter school, but in this case primarily serves residents of suburban Oakland, Macomb, and to some extent Wayne Counties. My impression is it’s actually quite popular with suburban kids who don’t want to go away to school either for financial reasons or out of personal preference, or perhaps are not quite cut out for Michigan or Michigan State. I don’t think Oakland is going anywhere; in fact, my impression is it’s growing, perhaps to some extent at the expense of Wayne State and Eastern. I think Eastern is probably the weakest link among the metro Detroit area schools.</p>
<p>There may be a similar dynamic at play in both southeastern Michigan and western Michigan: more people from the bigger population centers may be opting to commute to schools like Oakland and Grand Valley, rather than attending traditional 4-year residential colleges like Eastern, Western, and Central, especially as the latter don’t seem to offer any special advantage in jobs at the end of the pipeline. To some extent that may be at play in the Saginaw Valley, too, with SVSU now more acceptable as a commuter option and EMU, WMU, and CMU less attractive as residential away-from-home options.</p>
<p>Eastern is a very good teaching school. I would lobby for Oakland to close before Eastern. I can’t think of any notable programs at OU, but I’m welcome to hearing out arguments :)</p>
<p>Sorry, x-Posted with bc</p>
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<p>Well, how about a medical school for starters, Michigan’s fourth, established in 2011 in partnership with William Beaumont Hospital, a highly respected regional hospital. Also a pretty good nursing school, including one of the major centers in the country for training Registered Nurse Anesthetists, a specialty in which there are often critical shortages (also in partnership with Beaumont), as well as a number of med tech-type degree programs. An ABET-accredited engineering school. A business school with both undergrad and MBA programs, including the only executive MBA program in the state offering a specialization in Health Care Leadership. Also a growing research profile in areas like biomedical research, autism, eye care, robotics, nanotechnology, and more.</p>
<p>Seems to me that between Oakland and Eastern, Oakland is the more dynamic institution, growing and co-evolving with the region’s economic base, producing engineers, MBAs, nurses, med techs, and now doctors to meet employer needs in the region’s growing medical sector and increasingly high-tech manufacturing processes. Eastern, on the other hand, seems to be clinging to its reputation as a pretty good teacher training school, and (as I see it) falling behind.</p>
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<p>That is the likely reason for colleges struggling to fill their seats.</p>
<p>Also on the commuter theme, I’ve notice that the University of Toledo is starting to draw a fair number of Michiganders by offering in-state tuition to Michigan residents. They advertise like crazy on Detroit Tigers radio broadcasts. For people living in the southern parts of Wayne County (e.g., downriver suburbs or the Detroit Metro Airport area) or Monroe County it’s a pretty quick trip down I-75 or I-275 to U Toledo, which is on Toledo’s north side, quite close to the Michigan border. EMU, CMU, and WMU could be losing some potential students that way as well.</p>
<p>Detroit is being shown as poor, dilapidated and crime ridden and this has been very recently brought to the forefront of the public eye (probably why this article was written now) with the city bankruptcy. Isn’t obvious that when potential out of state students and their parents see CNN talking about the bankruptcy on on TV and showing the decrepit buildings and neighborhoods in Detroit, that maybe they are a little more hesitant to send their kids to any place even remotely associated with that city? As an outsider I can say that all the media coverage I have seen on Detroit has been negative, or at best it talks about groups trying to “turn around” the problems in the city (ie. counter drug and gang problems and work against poverty). This does not present a good image to potential students. As mentioned before schools like Ann Arbour will continue to do ok in drawing OOS students and retaining locals, because they have a strong brand name in academia, but the other universities around the city or smaller satellite cities and towns will suffer a drop in applications due to this negative press (whether it is overblown or not), in not just OOS students but also IS students (If you are regularly told that the area many of your IS universities are in is dangerous, that will discourage you from applying, no?).</p>
<p>NamelessStatistic (^ post #34),</p>
<p>I think you wildly overestimate how many OOS students Michigan public universities have drawn in the past, apart from the University of Michigan which as you correctly note has a very strong brand and is continuing to attract record numbers of OOS applicants year after year. </p>
<p>Moreover, there is exactly one public university in the city of Detroit. That’s Wayne State which draws few if any OOS students, and at this point few from outside the city of Detroit and its immediate suburbs where generally people have a more realistic assessment of what’s going on in the city, what the bankruptcy means and what it does not mean. I short, I think your comments are wide of the mark. I don’t think Detroit’s bankruptcy changes anything as far as higher education in Michigan is concerned.</p>
<p>Oh, and by the way, anyone who knows anything about the city of Detroit, including anyone who lives in Michigan, has known for years that the city is “poor, dilapidated and crime ridden.” I don’t think that comes as news to one single person in the state of Michigan. Not one.</p>
<p>You could argue any press is good press for Michigan/Detroit. Still, most colleges won’t be affected by Detroit’s bankruptcy except for maybe Wayne State. As for commuters at GVSU and Oakland, Oakland is much more of a commuter school than Grand Valley State University. I would say about 15% or so of GVSU students commute (living with their parents commuting, not counting off campus apartments). Oakland is probably at least 50% or so commuters if not more. </p>
<p>Still if I had to merge or close universities in Michigan I would have a list of those that should close first:</p>
<ol>
<li>Lake Superior State (too many colleges in the Upper Peninsula)</li>
<li>Northern Michigan (too many college in the Upper Peninsula)</li>
<li>University of Michigan - Flint (don’t really need a college in Flint, doesn’t really stick out in any area except maybe having the University of Michigan name)</li>
<li>Saginaw Valley State (I wouldn’t close SVSU, but if you had to it could go. It is in a small population area and is a younger school)</li>
<li>Eastern Michigan (I wouldn’t close EMU, but it does have a lot of colleges near it. Plus, Ypsilianti is a crappy town and pretty much every major state university is good at teacher preparation in Michigan.)</li>
</ol>
<p>I wouldn’t close either Ferris or CMU. Ferris has some decent career based programs and a pharmacy and optometry school. As for Central, it has a decent sized alumni base and some decent programs. The problem with those two schools is that they don’t have a large local base of high school students. They’re both pretty much in the middle of rural Michigan.</p>
<p>Grand Valley’s growth has eroded the enrollment of WMU the most. A lot more Grand Rapids area kids used to go to WMU and now they have enrolled at Grand Valley at a higher number. Also, WMU will probably lose some of their out of state students (most from Chicagoland) to Grand Valley in the future.</p>
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<p>This will never happen. Lake Superior State, yes, Northern no. There’s almost no overlap in curriculum between Michigan Tech, which is close to 100% a STEM school, and Northern which is a teacher training, nursing, med tech, and liberal arts school. If you closed Northern, some kids in the western UP would need to travel 470+ miles to the nearest public university in Michigan that provides the kind of curriculum that Northern offers (that would be Central). In addition to which, you’d rip the economic heart out of the largest town in the UP, a chronically economically depressed area. At that point I think there would be overwhelming sentiment in the UP to secede from Michigan and re-join Wisconsin. </p>
<p>But no governor is ever going to let that happen. The UP’s population may be a small percentage of Michigan’s total population, but it’s a volatile population that could easily tip a close statewide election.</p>
<p>And as best I can tell, Northern isn’t suffering the kinds of enrollment declines faced by Central and Eastern.</p>
<p>Northern has a strong curriculum generally associated with 2-year community colleges in addition to their 4-year programs. It is also an Olympic training center and agree that there is very little overlap between Michigan Tech and Northern. Northern also has a strong influx of students from northern Wisconsin. Northern continues to grow albeit slowly every year. Nothing will/should change for Northern. Northern is a unique college both from location, access to outdoor sports, geographic access for the UP and northern Wisconsin and depth and breath of available education. Marquette is also a social, economic and tourism hub unlike Big Rapids, Mt Clemons and downtown Detroit.</p>
<p>…and besides, my valedictorian niece is starting at Northern as freshman next week, so it can’t close in the next 4 years 
!</p>