Michigan Colleges struggle to attract students

Parent Cafe
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<p>Good point about the number of OOS students Northern serves, but I think it’s not just northern Wisconsin. Northern draws about equal numbers from Wisconsin and Illinois, and OOS students make up nearly a quarter of its entering class. Lots of people are drawn to the natural beauty of the area, the outdoor recreational opportunities, and winter sports. That’s money in the bank for Michigan’s economy. Most of Michigan’s public universities don’t provide that kind of draw to OOS students.</p>

<p>With Michigan’s in-state HS population declining, the most successful public universities in the future will probably be those that do the best job of attracting OOS students. The University of Michigan-Ann Arbor will always be the leader on that score because of its stellar national and international academic reputation. </p>

<p>Tech and Northern probably have the next most upside in this regard because of their natural assets and proximity to major Midwestern population centers like Chicago, Milwaukee, Madison, and Minneapolis-Saint Paul, all of which are closer (in some cases much closer) to Houghton and Marquette than are Michigan’s own major population centers, Detroit and Grand Rapids (distance from Marquette to Milwaukee 292 mi, Minneapolis-Saint Paul 373 mi, Chicago 382 mi, Grand Rapids 395 mi, Detroit 455 mi; distance from Houghton to Milwaukee 328 mi, Minneapolis-Saint Paul 337 mi, Chicago 418 mi, Grand Rapids 493 mi, Detroit 554 mi*). Lake Superior State, at the far eastern end of the UP, is much farther from these population centers and in a less scenic and flatter part of the UP, and consequently has less potential to attract OOS students. </p>

<p>Eastern draws a fair number of students from Ohio, probably mostly from Toledo which is only a 50 minute drive away, but it’s doubtful there’s much additional upside there, and the University of Toledo is now battling back by offering in-state tuition to Michigan residents. Likely they’ll fight to a draw. Western draws a substantial number from Illinois, probably mostly from the Chicago area which is only about 2 hours away or a bit more depending on traffic and where you’re going in the Chicago area; whether it can do more is hard to say. I frankly don’t see much potential for Wayne, Oakland, Saginaw Valley, Central, Ferris, or the University of Michigan satellite campuses in Flint and Dearborn because these are not exactly exciting or appealing destinations for OOS students. </p>

<p>Grand Valley is hard to predict. It’s seen as an up-and-coming school in-state, but is still virtually unknown outside the state. Some people say Grand Rapids is now a more interesting town than back in the day when I lived in the state, but back then it had a reputation for being boring, stuffy, and socially and culturally conservative–not the kind of place college students are clamoring to get to. Whether it’s changed and whatever it’s subsequently become, the school still has a long way to go to create and market an image that will appeal to potential OOS students. GVSU does have the advantage of being only about 3 hours from the Chicago area, an area that exports a large number of students. </p>

<p>Michigan State probably has a pretty good upside potential to attract more OOS students due to a relatively strong brand, Big Ten sports, and pretty decent academics. Plus it’s only 3.5 hours from both Chicago and Cleveland.</p>

<p>Here’s how Michigan’s public universities stack up in percentage of OOS freshmen enrolling in the fall of 2010, together with their largest sources of OOS students:</p>

<ol>
<li>University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 36.1% (New York 361, Illinois 319, California 297)</li>
<li>Michigan Tech 22.4% (Wisconsin 127, Minnesota 54)</li>
<li>Northern Michigan 22.1% (Wisconsin 129, Illinois 129)</li>
<li>Eastern Michigan 14.3% (Ohio 152, Illinois 36)</li>
<li>Western Michigan 11% (Illinois 273, Indiana 18, Ohio 18)</li>
<li>Michigan State 10.9% (Illinois 249, Ohio 58, Texas 54)</li>
<li>Lake Superior State 7.6% (Wisconsin 9, Illinois 6)</li>
<li>Ferris State 5.6% (Illinois 41, Indiana 21)</li>
<li>Grand Valley State 4.6% (Illinois 107, Indiana 15)</li>
<li>Central Michigan 4.2% (Illinois 92, Ohio 17)</li>
<li>Wayne State 1.4% (Ohio 9, Illinois 4, California 4)</li>
<li>University of Michigan-Flint 1.3% (DC 4, Ohio and several others 1)</li>
<li>Saginaw Valley State 1.1% (Ohio 6, Indiana and several others 2)</li>
<li>Oakland University 1.1% (Ohio 5, Indiana 5)</li>
<li>University of Michigan-Dearborn 0.3% (Illinois, California and Massachusetts 1)</li>
</ol>

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<li>Little-known fact: Detroit is closer to Washington, DC (525 miles) than to Houghton, MI, home of Michigan Tech (554 miles).</li>
</ul>

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<p>I think to get a better sense of the draw from OOS you should include graduate programs. I’m pretty sure Western and UM-Dearborn would fare better in those cases.</p>

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<p>Disclaimer: I’m an EMU grad so I have a bias, albeit, not a super strong one.</p>

<p>Eastern, like CMU and WMU, has some very specialized areas of expertise. If I were going into education (especially Special Ed), Occupational Therapy, or Information Security, I would go to EMU above anywhere else in the state. It’s had one of the top ranked OT programs in the nation for decades now. It began as a teacher’s college and continues to be produce well prepared educators (as someone said up thread, at a reasonable cost in comparison). The tough nerd has started what they’re calling Michigan’s Cyber Range, a sandbox where IT security educators, researchers, professionals, etc. can set up virtual networks and do pen-testing and vulnerabilities and it’s based out of EMU. While other colleges will have access to the Cyber Range, the EMU students have first opportunity to use the Cyber Range. Their professors are top notch and the technical hands on experiences available to them are unparalleled anywhere but maybe Carnegie-Mellon right now. </p>

<p>I don’t see closing state schools as the best way to manage the declining population. I could see reducing competition among the schools so that each one has their specialities and can really excel in those areas. Yes, they will need to scale down some of their services, number of staff, etc. to reflect the fewer numbers of students. However, they’ve been really crunched for space over the last few years so perhaps they’ll fit within their limits again. The other thing is… Michigan needs to get people moving back again. That’s the real challenge.</p>

<p>I found one other thing in the article interesting as it talked about fewer high school graduates. The state implemented new graduation requirements which began with the class of 2011. Are these proving too difficult? Are graduation rates being affected?</p>

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<p>Michigan high schools’ 4-year graduation rate (average for all schools) did decline from 75.95% in 2010 to 74.33% in 2011, the first year of the new standards. But it bounced back to 76.24% in 2012, slightly higher than it was before the new standards went into effect. The dropout rate also fell in 2012, to 10.71% compared to 11.13% in 2011 and 11.07% in 2010. So HS graduating standards don’t appear to be the issue.</p>

<p>The bigger changes are demographic. Michigan suffered an actual loss of population in some years over the past couple of decades, but now appears to be more or less stable. But it’s an aging population with fewer school-aged kids. Apart from the Ann Arbor area, Michigan’s economy also doesn’t attract a lot of young families from out-of-state. Michigan also has a relatively small immigrant population, just 6.0%, or slightly less than half the national average (12.9%); immigrants tend to have substantially higher birth rates than non-immigrants (immigrants account for 23% of U.S. births despite representing just 13% of the population), and immigrants attend college at higher rates than non-immigrants. Also, the overall birth rate of 1.9 live births per woman over her lifetime projects out to a declining population unless you get get substantial net in-migration from other states or other countries, which Michigan has not seen in several decades. In short, Michigan is now producing fewer HS graduates because it’s been producing fewer kids for the last couple of decades, and that deficit isn’t being made up by in-migration.</p>

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<p>Based on the 2000 and 2010 Census:</p>

<p>2000 Pop 9,883,640
2010 Pop 9,838,444
% Change -0.55%</p>

<p>Very Flat</p>

<p>Population change by age group:</p>

<p>Persons 0 to 4 years -11.27%
Persons 5 to 17 years -9.15% </p>

<p>About a 10% decrease in K-12 kids.</p>

<p>Not much you can do about the demographics…</p>

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<p>Kent (where Grand Rapids is located) and Ottawa Country (where Grand Valley is) had the largest population surges from 2010 to 2012 leading all other Michigan metro areas and the area passed the million population mark. There is alot good happening in that region with some visionary leaders bringing economic growth, urban renewal, and the influx of young people that economic growth, urban renewal and a growing vibrant college community bring. GVSU has 2 campuses the original and a downtown campus right in the heart of Grand Rapids now vibrant downtown. Lake Michigan beaches are a 45 minute drive from GR and alittle closer from GVSU original campus. I don’t forsee any issues for that college in the near future. Grand Rapids also has a strong civic leadership that partner with influence and money to push growth. The Medical Mile, the new Med school, the Van Andel research institute have brought new families from far and wide. The non-union manufacturing in the area has allowed many national and international companies to put down roots. It will be ‘tough’ and take some bad management for GVSU NOT to grow. Student population now is at approx. 25,000 students since it’s founding in the 60s. For lovers of the art GR has an opera, a ballet company, a symphony, theater and Art Prize. Bill Seidman was an early visionary for the area having grown up in Grand Rapids and returned to start an accounting firm before rising to FDIC chai and who also had a strong hand in the establishment of GVSU. The business school is named for him. The next decade will be an interesting time for Michigan’s “other public universities”. Northern is a huge bargain and very generous with merit aid and more kids see it as a viable place to go as costs continue to escalate down state.</p>

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<p>I think in the future Grand Valley will have more OOS students, but a similar enrollment to where they are at right now. The max the campus really can hold is 25,000. Still, Chicago kids will keep going to GV in higher numbers in the future due to the academics and cost. As for Grand Rapids being conservative, it is to a certain extent but probably not as much as say Iowa. Chicago kids go to the University of Iowa in huge numbers. I don’t think GVSU will ever get that many Chicago students, but they’ll be a higher proportion at Grand Valley State University than they are now.</p>

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<p>The world is such a global place these days personally I don’t think out of state students add all that much to the college experience except they do add money to the college coffers. Kids in California are pretty much like kids in the midwest or kids in the NE. Everything moves at the speed of light these days. Back when I was in college there were differences in clothing, music preferences, and many other things with classmates from the other regions. Not so much anymore, they wear the same clothes, listen to the same music, sport the latest trends, get the same news and human interest reading on their mobile devices…my oldest went to a small college with kids from all fifty states and they were pretty much interchangeable with the exception of a regional accent here and there.</p>

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<p>Huh? You are kidding right? Michigan is not a liberal state. We are a blue state, but we are not liberal. Iowa is more liberal than Michigan and the Des Moines area is much more liberal than the Grand Rapids area.</p>

<p>Personally, I think the only reason to bring in any OOS students is to subsidize IS students. I personally think “geographic diversity” is overrated.</p>

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<p>No actually the east side of the state and some of the southern tier is blue and as that population dwindles it makes for interesting state politics. The west side and northern tier of the lower peninsula are decidedly not blue except for a random country here and there. I would say the western side is fiscally conservative. There’s a world of difference in Michigan politically between the east and the west.</p>

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<p>Again, difference between democratic (blue) and liberal. Iowa is more socially liberal than Michigan. Look at hot button issues like abortion and marriage equality that are decided on a state level. The same places that vote for democrats also very conservatively on individual issues.</p>

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<p>[Same-sex</a> marriage: A no-brainer for Michigan | Brian Dickerson | Detroit Free Press | freep.com](<a href=“http://www.freep.com/article/20130519/COL04/305190072/Brian-Dickerson-same-sex-marriage-Michigan-politics-Republican-Party]Same-sex”>http://www.freep.com/article/20130519/COL04/305190072/Brian-Dickerson-same-sex-marriage-Michigan-politics-Republican-Party) says that “A new survey by the respected Glengariff Group, which has been polling Michiganders’ attitudes toward the issue annually since October 2004, reveals that voters in the Great Lakes State now back gay marriage by a 57%-38% margin”.</p>

<p>[Branstad</a>, Braley lead in Iowa - Public Policy Polling](<a href=“http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/07/branstad-braley-lead-in-iowa.html#more]Branstad”>http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/07/branstad-braley-lead-in-iowa.html#more) says that “47% of Iowans think same sex marriage should be legal to 44% who believe it should be illegal.”</p>

<p>Of course, there could be specific regions of each state that have very different polling results than the state as a whole.</p>

<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_opinion_of_same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States&lt;/a&gt; indicates that the most opposed states are WV, KY, SC, and UT, while the most in favor states are RI, NJ, NY, and MA. AZ, AK, and IN are significantly more in favor of same-sex marriage than one might assume from its general political leanings; NM and WI are significantly more opposed.</p>

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<p>First, let me emphasize that in talking about Grand Rapids’ conservatism, I’m not talking about politics but about conservatism on social and cultural questions. Iowa is a deeply mixed state in that regard, but Iowa City, where the University of Iowa is located, is definitely not conservative in that sense. Chicagoans who attend the University of Iowa experience the university and its host community, which extends to Johnson County, but the county largely reflects Iowa City’s views and in many ways stands out in Iowa. I don’t think University of Iowa students are much affected by the views of the rest of the state.</p>

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<p>Interesting convo on here. Still, I was just using Iowa as an example. Iowa City is liberal, but you get just outside of the city and it gets pretty country. I think geographic diversity is great because it helps make a college/university more prestigious. The most prestigious universities (outside of California) generally have a lot of geographic diversity. I do think both are related in many ways.</p>

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<p>I would lobby for Oakland to close before Eastern. I can’t think of any notable programs at OU, but I’m welcome to hearing out arguments</p>

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<p>S is happily attending OU. OU’s enrollment has been steadily rising, and even with the increased enrollment, the school remains very “accessible” to students. S is able to get his classes, his profs are good, the facilities are good … it’s a very solid school. I am not of the opinion that a school needs to be “the best” in programs to offer a good education. In fact, I think that can be detrimental to other programs.</p>

<p>But OU does have a new med school …</p>

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<p>I grew up in Michigan. I think the real reason that the colleges are losing students is because there aren’t any jobs in Michigan. A lot of people end up moving out of Michigan not because they want to but because they have to. Michigan needs to get away from only having the three R’s (Retirement,Retail & Recreation). Until that happens I believe college enrollment will continue to go down.</p>

<p>BTW I don’t see CMU being shut down. They have that new medical college and they have a number of satellite campuses and a large online program. There are a lot of people down here in Georgia that get their masters in education through CMU. I see a lot of CMU bumper stickers and license plate holders on cars. It’s actually kind of funny since most of them have never been up to Mt. Pleasant.</p>

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<p>Any one know what is the % of out of state student in MI university. What % got scholarship, What % our of state student pay in state tuition???</p>