<p>lol.............we've got tradition, historical significance and pride...........that's all it matters.....we UVa kids are the *****. I respect Michigan...........but UVa and Michigan are too different......visit both schools, seriously. BTW, i don't go to college for 100% academics, i go to college for the experience.......</p>
<p>and we love our campus, or "Grounds"............we love to dress up in football games...........bowties, *****! ;)</p>
<p>UVa also scored exactly 5 points in a football game. Do you have any idea how hard it is to come up with a score of 5? U of M could never do that!</p>
<p>I'll shut y'all down with this one: the Central Grounds area at UVA (the lawn, rotunda, and gardens) is a UN World Heritage site. It shares this distinction with only three other other man-made sites in the US: the statue of liberty, independence hall and Pueblo de Taos. </p>
<p>Oh, also, I'll have to say that I think UVA is more appropriately sized for a university. Michigan is a great school, but it's just too large.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Oh, also, I'll have to say that I think UVA is more appropriately sized for a university. Michigan is a great school, but it's just too large.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I respect your opinion... I can see where you're coming from to an extent as well. However, with its size comes resources and opportunities for students. For instance, Michigan has the largest undergraduate research program in the nation. </p>
<p>As far as tradition is concerned, Virginia does have a storied beginning with Thomas Jefferson and whatnot. I also don't doubt Virginia has a plethora of traditions within the university.</p>
<p>However, remember Michigan is also a school full of tradition. It has ridiculously loyal alumni across the globe. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a university with more school pride (both alumni and students). I'm not sure one exists... there may be an equal if one could compare such a thing, but not greater. </p>
<p>The Michigan fight song "The Victors" is arguably the most well known fight song in the country... its a toss up between Michigan and Notre Dame.</p>
<p>I could go on and on about campus traditions and such but for every one I name, you could name one that UVa students have.</p>
<p>Regardless, both insitutions are among the best. They both have traditions of their own that go back decades.</p>
<p>Let's just shake e-hands and call it a day... whuddya say? :)</p>
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Oh, also, I'll have to say that I think UVA is more appropriately sized for a university. Michigan is a great school, but it's just too large.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Beauty in the eye of the beholder.</p>
<p>I prefer as many people as possible.</p>
<p>Well, Kazz, I'm going to have to disagree with you. </p>
<p>Virginia is by far better than Michigan. There are many reasons why this is the case, but perhaps the most important reason is that as my very well-informed friend, thrills4ever, states in his elegant, concise, yet thought provoking words, and I quote, "uva has hotter girls".</p>
<p>The wisdom contained in this statement should be noted by all here. This is the true difference between a happy college career and a college career full of misery and sadness. </p>
<p>Our founding fathers, some 200 years ago, stated that every man has the right to life, liberty, and most importantly the pursuit of happiness. Unfortunately, Kazz, my dear friend you have been denied the third promise. I understand you try to make up for it by citing Michigan's reputation, its graduate rankings, even its football and athletic achievements. But unfortunately, Kazz, none of these attributes really define a great institution. </p>
<p>But there is something you can do about. You can transfer my friend. Come to Charlottesville or USC or Miami. Then and only then, will you truly be able to live the American Dream.</p>
<p>But seriously, in response to Kazz's statements...</p>
<ol>
<li> Michigan has ranked programs because it is big, not necessarily because it is good. Example: UC-San Francisco is the #5 Medical School - but who would pick it over Stanford or Duke.
Another Example: In Engineering, Georgia Tech is #4, UMich is #6, USC is #7, Purdue is #10, UC-San Diego is #11. Cornell and Princeton are behind all of them. What is very odd is that Caltech, yes the California Institute of Technology, is ranked below Michigan by 4 spots. Clearly, this is not right.</li>
</ol>
<p>Why? Caltech, although having by far superior students, faculty, etc. is a small school. Naturally they will not have the facilities to do everything in engineering. I am sure if you look at the stats of the students at Michigan vs. students at Caltech, Princeton, Harvard, or Carnegie Mellon, you will find better students at those other institutions. Hence, why Michigan has so many highly ranked programs. </p>
<p>If you are a graduate student at Michigan in any field, then yeah it would be great with all the facilities. However, your fellow students would not be the best students. In that way, Michigan grad students are about as qualified as Virginia grad students. Great students, but not the very top students.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Your statement that Michigan is more selective than Virginia is based on US News. But how does US News calculate this? Unless you can provide this information, your arguement is not that good.</p></li>
<li><p>Peer assessment scores, again this is a rank of the facilities and professors, not the students.</p></li>
<li><p>Who cares what Gerhard Casper says? I can probably find someone who says the exact opposite.</p></li>
<li><p>Again, Michigan has one of the highest overall expenditures, because again it is one of the largest universities in the nation.</p></li>
<li><p>Ground-breaking research goes on at all universities. Just saying it goes on more at Michigan than Virginia doesn't make it true.</p></li>
<li><p>Okay, that would make sense that "Michigan has the largest university run medical system" since the school is so big. Unfortunately, US News doesn't think it has the best.</p></li>
<li><p>Sports...I agree Michigan athletics is better than Virginia's athletics program.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>UMich and Virginia are both great schools. In terms of engineering / sciences grad, Michigan is better because it is bigger. In terms of Law, Business, we are the same. In terms of other grad studies, we are also the same. Undergrad, however, the perception in the Mid-Atlantic, South, and Northeast is that UMich students are a little lower in qualifications than UVa students. I don't have any proof, but that is the general perception.</p>
<p>
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Michigan has ranked programs because it is big
[/quote]
</p>
<p>VirginiaAlum... surely you realize this is far from the case. There are MUCH larger schools out there with few ranked programs. Size has nothing to do with it. Program rankings take into account faculty, resources, curriculum, and students. They have NOTHING to do with size.</p>
<p>and UCSF has a phenomenal graduate program and its medical school is top 5 in the country. I would have no qualm with choosing UCSF medical school over any other school in the country.</p>
<p>
[quote]
2. Your statement that Michigan is more selective than Virginia is based on US News. But how does US News calculate this? Unless you can provide this information, your arguement is not that good.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Surely you have the ability and resourcefulness to find out their ranking critera on your own.</p>
<p>
[quote]
3. Peer assessment scores, again this is a rank of the facilities and professors, not the students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It is professors and administrators from colleges and universities across the nation that judge a school based on its academic reputation. Its not a ranking of facilities, professors, or any other individual criteria. Its merely reputation... how a school is regarded by educators and administrators nationwide.</p>
<p>
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Who cares what Gerhard Casper says? I can probably find someone who says the exact opposite.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>He happens to be a very prominent individual in academia who's opinion has alot of weight and credibility. Therefore, alot of people care. and there's nothing "opposite" to find... he just mentioned that Michigan and Berkeley are two of the very best insititutions in the country.</p>
<p>
[quote]
5. Again, Michigan has one of the highest overall expenditures, because again it is one of the largest universities in the nation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Do you realize Michigan really isn't THAT big? Texas has more undergrads than we have undergrad and grad combined. There are many schools much larger than michigan. Michigan is average for a state school. Virginia happens to be on the small side. Thats it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"Michigan has the largest university run medical system" since the school is so big. Unfortunately, US News doesn't think it has the best.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It is ranked in the top 10 however... does Virginia have a medical system? Surely having a top-ranked medical system contributes to an institutions reputation, the insitututions overall contribution to humanity. Is it required to have an excellent school? Of course not. Virginia and Berkeley are perfect examples. But it IS something to take pride in if a school has it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Undergrad, however, the perception in the Mid-Atlantic, South, and Northeast is that UMich students are a little lower in qualifications than UVa students. I don't have any proof, but that is the general perception.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In your experience, perhaps. Others surely have opposite perception. I know in the midwest and west, the opposite perception is there. But we all know there's perception, and then there's reality. </p>
<p>But seriously...all in all in terms of student quality, for all intents and purposes, lets face it they're the same. Bickering over something like this rather trivial.</p>
<p>
[quote]
In terms of engineering / sciences grad, Michigan is better because it is bigger.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>again, this is false. Size has nothing to do with it. Faculty, curriculum, resources, and students are the ranking criteria. Not size.</p>
<p>that being said, I don't doubt for a minute Virginia girls are better looking. its a problem the Michigan student body has been facing for quite some time. i'll chalk it up to Virginia being in the south... southern girls are hot :)</p>
<p>Darn it Kazz. I was hoping that I could get a much more angrier response from you and other Michigan people. But, no, instead you had to give me a logical and mild response. </p>
<p>Although it is true that both Universities are equally great and any given university may or may not be good for a particular person, I was hoping we could have an interesting discussion where propaganda, name-calling, and other such things were present. Oh well, maybe another time...perhaps in March/April when some student asks the UVa vs. UMich question. </p>
<p>But one thing that Michigan will always be worse at than UVa is the number of good looking girls. Michigan girls are ugly and that's a fact - actually, when I did visit, overall UVa girls looked much better, but there were some really hot girls though - must have been visitors :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
But one thing that Michigan will always be worse at than UVa is the number of good looking girls. Michigan girls are ugly and that's a fact - actually, when I did visit, overall UVa girls looked much better, but there were some really hot girls though - must have been visitors
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Then you haven't seen my girlfriend....</p>
<p>He said number. He didn't deny that there were hot girls at U of M, he just said that there were fewer. I guess reading comprehension isn't a criterion for admission to U of M.</p>
<p>"Michigan girls are ugly and that's a fact"</p>
<p>Ignorance is bliss cavalier302</p>
<p>A2Wolves6 - Cavalier302 is correct. </p>
<p>I said, "Michigan girls are ugly and that's a fact - actually, when I did visit, overall UVa girls looked much better.."</p>
<p>See, if you read the rest of my post (which you do seem to have a problem with as this is the second time you took my words out of context), you would see that the first part is said with sarcasm. Then, by writing , "actually," I let the reader know that in fact my previous statement was made facetiously.</p>
<p>I was in response to a particluar sentence in your paragraph. I noted the paragraph, made mention of the sentence and gave my response.</p>
<p>I'm not taking your words out of context. You said directly that it's a fact that Michigan girls are ugly. Not only is that an incorrect statement, but it's a hasty generalization that you are making based on a select few people you've seen.</p>
<p>redbeard,
UVA doesn't have better poli sci and business, at least not according to graduate rankings. FYI: UMich's poli sci is ranked #3. </p>
<p>VirginiaAlum,
The graduate ranking for "overall" engineering is indeed pretty screwed up. However, the departmental rankings are pretty good and Michigan is well-represented in those. I think a Michigan team just won the intercollegiate solar car competition this year. </p>
<p>Someone mentioned about US News selectivity rank and I think US News is incorrect to put UVA below Michigan. It should be reverse. The error is pretty obvious to me. The US News misranked quite a few schools in this category.</p>
<p>VirginiaAlum, your thread makes me laugh.</p>
<p>that;s for graduate ranking, we;re talking about undergrad here. our poli sci department's got Larry Sabato, the Number 1 "Most quoted college professor on any campus in US" by Wall Street Journal. </p>
<p>again, we cavaliers are seeking traditions......we like the rich history of our school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
that;s for graduate ranking, we;re talking about undergrad here. our poli sci department's got Larry Sabato, the Number 1 "Most quoted college professor on any campus in US" by Wall Street Journal.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, what's the basis for your claim that UVA has better pol sci then? ;) Do you realize the so-called "undergrad" biz school ranking is pretty much graduate school ranking minus those without undergrad programs? Graduate ranking is pretty much a measure of strength/reputation of faculty/research. On one hand, you disregard graduate ranking but then you mentioned Larry Sabato. You seem to be contradicting yourself.</p>
<p>hey, larry sabato teaches several undergrad courses</p>
<p>what i was trying to say is
a) even graudate program ranking by USNEWS isnt really well done
b) the undergrad program by USNEWS isnt really well done either
overall, we shouldn't choose schools based on department ranking solely. the differences between different schools' atmospheres are too big. choose a university you like/love that is relatively known in your intended field.</p>