Michigan (LSA) worth it as non-resident (CA) ?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
1

My daughter is mainly focused on LACs and U of California campuses. But lately she has been attracted to Michigan (LSA - PPE major or Political Science/Economics with hopefully involvement in Theater). I had a few questions about Michigan LSA (before I completely dissuade her from applying). The other out of state public campus she is interested in is UVa (similar issues there).

  • Is Michigan LSA worth it as a non-resident ? Compared to in-state at one of the UC campuses, tuition alone would be almost 3x. Total cost would be about 2x (higher cost of living on the UC campuses, offset by transportation costs from Ann Arbor to CA).
  • I assume that as a very large state university, Michigan would offer up experience similar to the UC campuses (large class sizes with Teaching Assistants, difficulty in signing up for some classes etc). I can see Michigan Ross as definitely being worth the money, but not sure if LSA would be.
  • Would Michigan (LSA) prepare her better for jobs ? Is the network (for jobs/internships etc) better at Michigan compared to UC campuses ?
  • Daughter is completely un-interested in sports or football. Her #1 interest (outside of school) is Theater (stage managing/acting/writing/directing).

Daughter would very likely get Merit Scholarships at many of the LACs she is applying to, so the total cost of these LACs would be lower than Michigan too, with the advantages of smaller classes, more personal attention etc.

Perspective from someone from CA who is/was in LSA, who chose LSA over a UC campus would be interesting to me.

2

Michigan is equivalent to UC Berkeley or UCLA - I would not pay more if I had either of those UCs as an option (unless fit was a serious issue). If majoring in CS/Engineering, UC San Diego would likely be good enough instead of paying so much more for Michigan (barring major fit issues again). There are much more noticeable differences between Michigan and the other UCs, however.

3

Agree with the above. Not worth it, UCB and UCLA can offer the same education and opportunities at much lower cost for instates.

4

We had a similar difficult decision, in our case with UVA and W&M vs UCB and UCLA, also for Poli Sci/Econ. In the end S18 decided to attend UCLA. He really liked UVA and the Echols scholarship would have allowed him to avoid any general ed requirements and graduate in 3 years using his AP credit (W&M Monroe was less helpful in that regard). But he would have felt he had to finish in 3 years at UVA to save money, which would have detracted from the experience. He decided on UCLA because UCB is too close to home, he also got an Alumni scholarship at UCLA which provides a small amount of money and allows first choice of internships, etc. I can definitely understand why UVA and its contacts in DC might provide a reason to go OOS for a Poli Sci major, but have a harder time seeing that for Michigan.

He was admitted to some LACs (e.g. Macalester) and other private colleges (GWU, American, CWRU, et al) with top merit scholarships ($20K-$30K p.a.) but even with that none of them came close to UCLA in cost. The only place that would have had a better cost/benefit equation than UCLA was PPE at Oxford but unfortunately he didn’t get an offer. If PPE is of interest and your daughter has 5s in her APs, I would definitely recommend applying to Oxford, but time is very tight now (applications, test registration, recommendations, etc are all due Oct 15).

5

Michigan grad here (originally from MI, but live on the west coast now). Not worth it with the UC options you have.

6

I’m a freshman. Students I’ve met so far from California are pretty honest about not getting into the top UCs.

7

Thanks for the responses, after studying this more, she has decided to apply to LSA+RC (residential college). If she gets admitted to both, she’d visit and decide in the spring.

8

Depends what you mean by “worth it.” LSA “prepares” you for jobs the same way any liberal arts education would do so. You learn how to think critically. If she gets into Berkeley or UCLA, I wouldn’t bother with Michigan unless it’s a consumptive preference and you can easily afford it.

9

Of course it is worth it…if it makes sense. Why else would thousands of CA students leave the state to attend schools like the Cornell, Georgetown, Michigan (there are over 1,600 undergraduate students from CA at Michigan), Northwestern, Penn, Rice etc…annually?

Michigan offers a somewhat different experience from the UCs. Cal and UCLA’s combined endowments stand at $9 billion. Michigan’s endowment stands at $11 billion. Michigan can avoid many of the problems endemic to the UCs, such as switching majors (no impacted majors at Michigan so far, although I hear CS may soon be impacted) and registering for classes (other than incoming freshmen, it is very rare for students to be locked out of a class).

You will definitely have TAs at Michigan, but it is a myth that TAs are common at public universities (and that goes for the UCs too. You are just as likely to have a TA teaching you at a private university like Brown or Harvard as you are at Michigan or Cal or UCLA. TAs are usually restricted to teaching intro Mathematics, intro Writing and intro Foreign Language classes.

Where Michigan differs from the UCs is in the general experience. Less hassle switching things around thanks to availability of resources, special multidisciplinary offerings (PPE, minor in Business from Ross, etc…). Michigan also has the feel of an elite private university (identical to schools like Cornell, Northwestern, Penn), while retaining the benefits of a public university (school spirit, athletic tradition etc…).

Attending Michigan over the UCs for a CA resident only makes sense if finances are not a concern. So if the family can easily afford to cost of attendance without any hardship or sacrifice, or if the student receives a generous financial aid or merit scholarship package. If attending Michigan will pose any financial strain, then definitely stick to the UCs. No university, not even the likes of Harvard or MIT, is worth choosing over Cal or UCLA if finances are a concern.

“I’m a freshman. Students I’ve met so far from California are pretty honest about not getting into the top UCs.”

hannahw18, there are over 1,600 undergraduate students that are CA residents at Michigan, and while many did not get into the top UCs, many did get into Cal and UCLA and still chose to attend Michigan for the reasons mentioned above.

10

“If attending Michigan will pose any financial strain, then definitely stick to the UCs. No university, not even the likes of Harvard or MIT, is worth choosing over Cal or UCLA if finances are a concern.”

Exactly! So many here on CC fail to accept this fact. Michigan is an elite university. UCB and UCLA are also elite. Just because they are all public schools do not make them less elite. If you’re going to pay full freight for any private school, why would you feel that a top school like Michigan wouldn’t be worth it as well?

11

The CA student I know who did that benefitted from UMich’s new financial aid policy - generous, full financial aid for families up to 90K income. It didn’t cost her much more than a UC (airfare, basically). She wanted a smaller college within the university, which UCLA (also-admit) doesn’t have, whereas UMich has LSA Honors and the RC. And, to her, the bonus was 4 seasons, including discovering that fabled thing, snow.

12

One thing to be aware of is that Michigan is stingy with transfer credit, so that students who took college courses while in high school may end up having to repeat them at significant expense if they matriculate to Michigan, even though the college courses would be considered fully transferable at other schools like UCs.

Even in-state transfer students encounter trouble with transfer credit, and Michigan community colleges seem to have poor pre-transfer advising, since that was the root cause of the problems faced by the student in http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/2096576-im-very-upset-of-my-student-debt.html .

13

In terms of a freshman applicant, Michigan was not “stingy” with AP credits IME.

14

The stinginess is in reference to transferred college courses, not AP credit.

15

The OP is NOT a transfer applicant. OP will/may be a freshman applicant.

16

In California, many students take advanced classes at local community colleges while in high school; they are high quality (unlike what’s the case in many states) and transfer seamlessly to UCs.

17

Just out of curiosity, I looked at the transferability of CA community college courses my daughter has taken and is taking. The 2 courses she has credits in will transfer to Michigan (LSA). But yes, it does seem like fewer courses offered at the CC my daughter is taking classes in (De Anza college in Cupertino) will transfer over at Michigan (compared to the UCs and the CSUs). Michigan is still way better for transferability than a lot of private colleges.

18

Those community college credits will end up costing you a lot of money. Michigan tuition is more expensive for juniors and seniors. Becoming a “junior” is determined by number of credits, not number of years/semester you’ve attending the college. With AP credit and community college credit she can become a “junior” at least a semester early and up to a full year early. And it’s unlikely that those credits will enable her to graduate in less than four years because the credits typically are treated as electives.