Michigan State Honors Program vs. University of Michigan

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I know this is probably a common question but I want a more personalized answer to it. </p>

<p>Over this summer, I've visited both of the state colleges and have found them both to be very fitting. I'm a 4.0 student with a 33 ACT and a part of multiple extracurricular activities. With those attributes, I'm decently sure that I would be accepted to both universities. </p>

<p>At this point, I believe I would major in Computer Science and possibly another form of engineering (Chemistry, Bioengineering, Energy, etc.) that would complement my primary major, but this could change at any time really. </p>

<p>Either way, I'm going to apply to both universities. My little background knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) has me thinking that University of Michigan is known to be a little more prestigious school. Its average ACT score is 30 I believe whereas Michigan State's is about 27 or 28, and UMich is known for a more selective admissions process and more competitive college experience. I feel as though UMich would be my in-state choice, but the wrinkle here is State's Honor's Program. </p>

<p>The Honor's Program at State would already have me accepted into it with my academic achievements. The Honor's Program at State gives you the freedom to be exempt from all college prerequisites, build your own course schedule from all graduate and undergraduate classes starting as a freshman, turn any class into an honor's class, live on a floor with other honors students, and get access to honor's extracurricular activities. Also, I'm qualified enough to be rewarded a Professorial Apprenticeship through which I would work with a professor on research while getting paid to do so. The perks of the Honor's Program are tremendous and would allow me to double major easily and build concentrations on whatever I feel would be beneficial. The job placement rate of honor's students six month's after graduation at State was touted as being 99% as well. </p>

<p>At UMich, I could still apply for the Honor's Program, but there's no knowing whether I would get in at this point and the perks don't seem as numerous. I do also realize that UMich may be known as a better engineering school though. </p>

<p>In the end, the question I have is: Would all of the perks of the Honor's Program at Michigan State outweigh a standard education at University of Michigan?</p>

<p>Thank you for helping me out, and don't hesitate to recommend other college options that would seem fitting.</p>

2

<p>The average ACT score at MSU is more like 25-26 (I believe the mid 50% range is 23-28. Not that it matters, as the difference between 25 and 30 on the ACT is not that significant. However, the difference between Michigan and MSU in Engineering, although not glaring, is significant. According to the latest USNWR, Michigan is ranked #6 in Engineering while MSU is ranked between #48. Michigan’s peers in Engineering are Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Georgia Tech and UIUC. </p>

<p>As for the benefits of the Honors program at MSU, I am not sure how Michigan can match them. Michigan will not allow you to skip graduation requirements, nor will it allow you to set you own curriculum. You will follow the curriculum of the major you choose. Should this sort of requirement not sit well with you, MSU might well be a better option. Please note that there is no Honors program at Michigan’s CoE. </p>

<p>The question you need to answer for yourself is this: Are the benefits of the honors program at MSU enough to bridge the gap in quality between Michigan and MSU? There is no right or wrong answer, only personal preference.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the input. </p>

<p>I did look a little closer at UMich and their Honors program and did find that the program does cover a computer science major but, like you said, not the anything in the college of engineering. I apparently had missed that. </p>

<p>I’m also wondering – to any past job recruiters or persons with experience – would an honors graduate from a college like MSU (lower in the engineering rankings) be as valuable or attractive as a standard graduate from a college like UMich (higher in the rankings)?</p>

<p>That seems to be a question that would greatly aid me in my decision between these two schools. I know that both schools hold job fairs and do help their students get jobs, but there’s a difference between having an software engineering job at Google and software engineering at the local, low-paying alarm company.</p>

4

<p>My general answer would be to go to the higher ranked school but there is no one right answer. I think the recruiters look at the school first and foremost – way before they look at an honors program (in part because every school’s honor program is different). But if the honors program particularly appeals to you with the lack of general requirements etc. (and honors students often get a lot of money which also could be a factor) then there is nothing wrong with going to MI State.</p>

5

<p>With in state tuition, I don’t think you should pass over the opportunity to go to one of the best schools in the country in UM. Many, many out of staters happily fork over $50+K/yr to attend. Engineering is certainly one of its top schools as well.</p>

6

<p>Thanks guys. Your thoughts are appreciated. Michigan does look like more attractive state school in the engineering department, but I’ll still be looking into Michigan State, Notre Dame, and a few other schools as possibilities.</p>

7

<p>Don’t listen to the UMich boosters above; engineering is a relatively “flat” field with regards to prestige and engineers are respected regardless of what school they went to, be it Stanford or Arizona State since it is such a rigorous field of study. As long as you do well at MSU, you won’t have a hard time finding a high-paying Engineering job.</p>

<p>One of my good friends from MSU is working as a software developer at Mozilla in the Bay Area. I would choose the Honors Program without hesitation here at it is cheaper and more personalized.</p>

8

<p>

… only if you are an average engineer seeking an entry-level job.</p>

9

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</p>

<p>There are about 2500 4-year institutions in the US, of course only a portion of those offer engineering, but when schools tout being among the “top 100” schools for engineering, it gives the impression that the field may flatten a little when you get near the top. Although, I’m sure that the top 10, top 25 schools on that list do bring with them a better program with potentially better job opportunities. Good to hear a first-hand story though.</p>

<p>I also do not price to be a factor right here. I’m attempting to base the analysis on education and student life exclusively.</p>

10

<p>I know this doesn’t exactly answer your question but I have a friend, who’s in ChemE, and he went to MSU first before transferring to UM. I’m not sure if he was in MSU honors but he did tell me that MSU classes compared to UM classes were “jokes”. I can’t remember the specific classes he was talking about but I know they were in math and engineering. He also talked about just how much better the UM job fairs were compared to MSU ones, how there were a lot more companies at the UM engineering job fair. Sorry I can’t be more specific but I really wasn’t paying that close attention to what he was saying but at least you get a comparison from a person who has experienced both schools first hand.</p>

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<p>goldenboy, you should make up your mind. A couple of months ago, you very strongly recommended Princeton over Michigan for another engineering student, even though Michigan is ranked higher in Engineering and the cost of attending Michigan was approximately half of the cost of attending Princeton. If you truly believed what you stated in post #7, you would have recommended Michigan over Princeton.</p>

<p>Speaking of cost of attendance, Michigan now costs ~$25k per year compared to ~$23,000 per year at MSU. As such, unless the OP receives some sort of scholarship from MSU and not from Michigan, cost of attendance is not really an issue.</p>

<p>Also, although Engineering is not as elitist as some other fields, there are still perks to attending top programs, such as greater recruitment activity on campus, higher starting pay for similar jobs, cross-industry and function recruitment etc…</p>

12

<p>

Alexandre, students often change their mind and Princeton offers far greater career versatility to its Engineering students than UMich or MSU. A Princeton degree in Engineering opens doors to elite investment banks, proprietary trading firms, MCs, and corporate development jobs that few other schools can provide.</p>

<p>Princeton is also a much more intimate school than MSU or UMich with its smaller engineering department and students enjoy greater access to faculty and research opportunities since TAs don’t teach classes there.</p>

<p>There’s also the lifelong halo that follows a Princeton graduate for a lifetime and that can’t be measured by any amount of money.</p>

<p>Overall, I felt that all of that was worth spending $100 K over Michigan for.</p>

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<p>As much as I would love to attend Princeton, I think that is well, well out of my reach.</p>

<p>I am torn right now between MSU Honors, UMich, and Notre Dame, because I believe that Ivies are, like I said, out of my realm of possibility. Notre Dame I believe I have a good chance of getting into and while the engineering department is not as recognized as UMich’s, the more tight-knit atmosphere and closer professor-student relationships are ideas that would sway me more toward a school like ND. At ND, the smaller program size and the jobs that the students are getting in my prospective field are coercing me to settle for something more along these lines.</p>

14

<p>Well, this thread is about MSU Honors vs Michigan standard. So I would say… Go STATE!!!</p>

<p>The honors program is very unique at MSU and offers top scholars great education experiences in terms of small classes, individualized seminar courses, study aboard program and first-hand research opportunities, countless perks that are simply hard to beat anywhere in the country. All of MSU honors students possess ACT score of no less than 30 and are top 5% in high school which is certainly better caliber of student body than the general University of Michigan students. Do keep in mind that UofM has nearly 30,000 undergrad students; whereas MSU’s honors program only has 3,000 students combined. It is currently rated as one of the “Top-10 Honors Program” in the nation. Unless OP is also admitted to Michigan’s Honors Program, for undergrad Computer / Engineering, I would certainly say Go State. In fact, one of my closest friends back in MSU was a Computer Engineering major who was accepted to Duke for Master and MIT for PhD. He is currently the Executive Manager for Microsoft earning 7 figures annual salary with bonuses in Seattle.</p>

<p>Lastly, although MSU is not much cheaper than Michigan tuition-wise, living expenses at East Lansing is certainly lower than that of Ann Arbor. MSU has a beautiful park-like campus, very scenic, compared with Ann Arbor which is always congested imho. Finally, I believe OP should be able to excel academically either at MSU or UM as Alex alluded to earlier in terms of “fit”. So, as a MSU Briggs Alum, I wish OP the best! Go Green!! :)</p>

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<p>That’s helpful and thanks for the wishes. It’s just such a tough decision between the two, whether I go to either one or not. It seems as though your friend has just about stolen my dream… Haha!</p>

<p>I’d say that as long as the job market really isn’t too much different between schools, I’d head to State for the honors program…</p>

16

<p>“All of MSU honors students possess ACT score of no less than 30 and are top 5% in high school which is certainly better caliber of student body than the general University of Michigan students.” </p>

<p>We aren’t comparing the “general Michigan students” here. These are the freshman stats of the average student admitted to the College of Engineering at U-M:</p>

<p>Entering Undergraduate Student Characteristics, Fall 2011</p>

<p>Total Freshman Applications
8,040</p>

<p>% Offered Admission
41%</p>

<p>Median HS GPA for Admitted Freshmen
3.9</p>

<p>Median ACT for Admitted Freshmen
32</p>

<p>Median SAT for Admitted Freshmen
1420</p>

<p>“Do keep in mind that UofM has nearly 30,000 undergrad”</p>

<p>Michigan has about 27,500 undegraduates. That’s hardly nearly 30,000.</p>

<p>“It (MSU) is currently rated as one of the “Top-10 Honors Program” in the nation.”</p>

<p>Michigan’s honors program is ranked #1 among public schools, although to be fair the COE does not have an honors program.</p>

<p>[Michigan</a> LSA Honors Program, Number 1 in Overall Excellence | Public University Honors](<a href=“http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2012/04/24/michigan-lsa-honors-program-number-1-in-overall-excellence/]Michigan”>http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2012/04/24/michigan-lsa-honors-program-number-1-in-overall-excellence/)</p>

<p>“In fact, one of my closest friends back in MSU was a Computer Engineering major who was accepted to Duke for Master and MIT for PhD. He is currently the Executive Manager for Microsoft earning 7 figures annual salary with bonuses in Seattle.”</p>

<p>Michigan had Larry Page. 'Nuff said.</p>

<p>“MSU has a beautiful park-like campus, very scenic, compared with Ann Arbor which is always congested imho.”</p>

<p>Michigan’s COE is even in a more park like setting than the COE at MSU. The North Campus is hardly ever “congested.” One of the nicest things about Ann Arbor is that there is life off campus. Ann Arbor completely blows away East Lansing in that regard.</p>

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<p>I’m not even comparing UMich’s Honors Program because it doesn’t encompass the engineering disciplines, so I’m not even going to compare them head to head. Thanks for all of the heartfelt input though.</p>

<p>Also, I’m pretty certain that Michigan has State beat in surrounding area in my mind.</p>

18

<p>It’s also bizarre to compare admitted UMich students to enrolled Mich State students as the the top scoring UMich ACT students (i.e. those with a 32 or above) go elsewhere as reflected by the lowered Umich enrolled ACT range. Mich State Honors students ALL have at least a 30 on their ACT compared to Mich enrolled students (median is around a 29 or 30).</p>

<p>And agreed with the above poster. Google is more a Stanford product (imagine Sergey or any other IT person trying to launch a billionaire dollar tech company in Ann Arbor) than Umich.</p>

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<p>It may not be rational, but I’d say that many in-state students have compared UMich and MSU at one point when choosing a school. It is surely not an uncommon question.</p>

20

<p>Also, in addition to superior basketball program, “Paul Bunyan” of East Lansing just told me that State will have the largest, most advance HD Scoreboard in Michigan. :p</p>

<p>[Spartan</a> Stadium’s new scoreboards on schedule to excite Michigan State fans opening night | MLive.com](<a href=“http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2012/07/spartan_stadiums_new_scoreboar.html]Spartan”>Spartan Stadium's new scoreboards on schedule to excite Michigan State fans opening night - mlive.com)</p>

<p>Go State!! :)</p>