<p>Well, thank god I don’t need to worry about what random high schoolers and college kids think about my University. </p>
<p>I’m more concerned with how potential employers view it.</p>
<p>ThisIsMichigan, as far as graduate school admissions and corporate America is concerned, Michigan is one of the best universities in the nation. Across all industries and in all top graduate programs, Michigan is among the most well represented.</p>
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<p>This should help answer your question:</p>
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<p>:D</p>
<p>“Also, unfortunately, Berkeley is a better public school although by how much is debatable.”</p>
<p>Why is that unfortunate? Berkeley has EARNED that reputation.</p>
<p>Wow UCB. Cal sure needs to shore up it’s Econ and Pol Sci departments! ;-)</p>
<p>lol, no, i mean it’s unfortunate that umich isn’t better since i go to umich now and I’m a michigan resident, so I have pride for my school and wish that it could one day surpass berkeley</p>
<p>I went to cal but transferred to Michigan because it was too expensive and I figured it wasn’t worth it since I was in industrial engineering. i’m in state for michigan.</p>
<p>i know some in staters for michigan who got into both michigan and berkeley and in temrms of their choices, it’s mixed, some choose mich some choose berkeley</p>
<p>i know another berkeley guy from michigan who transferred back to michigan.</p>
<p>yes, michigan’s campus is better and is obviously in better financial shape. from what i hear, michigan has a great undergrad experience, cal, not so much</p>
<p>but cal is the place to go for grad school. from what i hear, cal is the better grad school, but at the undergrad level, just stick with what’s in your state</p>
<p>I’m from Ohio</p>
<p>but come on…</p>
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Michigan should be discouraging applicants with under 3.2 GPAs from applying to medical school. For a clueless student who thinks that he/she has a chance, it is a waste of money and time plus receiving numerous rejections can induce a lot of stress. Its the job of advising at any university to guide students to careers and graduate programs that are best suited to their educational goals and situation. That often means telling these below average students hard truths that they don’t want to hear.</p>
<p>I agree with a lot of what you say Alexandre but the fact that Michigan has such a poor premed success rate and the bottom 1/3 of U of M law school asprirants matriculate at mediocre law schools like Michigan State, Wayne State, and especially Cooley Law reflects negatively on the university at the undergraduate level.</p>
<p>The bottom 1/3 of schools like Brown, Duke, and Penn are far superior to Michigan’s bottom third and since undergraduate reputation is reflective of everyone that has received a degree from a university, that makes those three private schools superior to Michigan at the undergraduate level.</p>
<p>Even at the absolute level, Cornell and Duke seem to be better represented in almost every top professional program outside of Michigan’s own 3. That should tell you something.</p>
<p>“I agree with a lot of what you say Alexandre but the fact that Michigan has such a poor premed success rate and the bottom 1/3 of U of M law school asprirants matriculate at mediocre law schools like Michigan State, Wayne State, and especially Cooley Law reflects negatively on the university at the undergraduate level.”</p>
<p>Another ridiculous and elitist post from goldenboy. There are many extremely sucessful graduates of those “mediocre law schools” that have gone on to careers and fame that you could only hope to dream about. Here is one Michigan graduate in particular:</p>
<p>[Stephen</a> M. Ross - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_M._Ross]Stephen”>Stephen M. Ross - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Somehow I don’t think that Mr. Ross’ JD degree from Wayne State University reflects badly on Michigan at all.</p>
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If you’re from Michigan, I agree there is no sense in paying OOS tuition for Berkeley…Unless you’re wealthy, want to experience the SF Bay Area and settle down there for a job.</p>
<p>@alexandre…you listed a lot of numbers where Mich has roughly the same number of students at top law and med schools. Keep in mind that mich has 28,000 undergrad students. Schools that get in the same number of students to top programs as mich are much smaller. Brown has 6,500 undergrads. Penn has 10,000 undergrads, Duke has 6,500, Northwestern 8,500, Georgetown has 7,500, and cornell has 14,000…If Mich were equal in top grad/professional school placement we would see about twice as many mich grads than cornell grads and at least 3 or 4 times more mich grads than brown, duke, etc…</p>
<p>Most of the numbers indicate that mich gets the same number of students as a school 1/3 its size. Even michigan state probably gets the same number of students into med school a year as Williams college. Clearly no one would argue that mich state is better than williams.</p>
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Yeah…physics too. It’s interesting Cal’s most recent Nobels have been in econ and physics but it’s hard to break through the Chicagos, Harvards, & MITs.</p>
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Not necessarily. I’m sure top grad and professional schools like to enroll a cohort of students from different schools across the country. Top students from bigger undergrad programs have more competition getting into top grad schools.</p>
<p>Also Michigan has many students who have absolutely no interest in attending medical or law schools. For example, most top students enrolled in undergraduate engineering would rarely consider going to graduate school in either area. Michigan has over 5,000 of those. Michigan also has a conservatory level music, theater, and dance school that also enrolls hundreds. Students in architecture, art and design, nursing, pharmacy, and other disciplines typically are not looking for graduate degrees in law or medicine either. Michigan has thousands of students enrolled in these other areas. It simply is not as pre-professionally focused such as a school like Duke.</p>
<p>I have no interest in graduate school. So there you go</p>
<p>^yeah but then there are a lot of students at penn or cornell who have no interest in medicine or grad school and what not. According to aamc, penn had 330 applicants to medical school and mich had 740 applicants. Michigan has about 2.25 times more students who applied (as in they want to go to) to med school than penn. However you don’t see 2.25 times more students from michigan at the top med programs…either michigan is not as strong as the other "peer’’ schools or med school data is useless because like UCBchem said med schools like to diversify thereby throwing off the numbers.</p>
<p>Well if you are deciding between Michigan and other strong schools, don’t base Michigan off of the bottom 1/3 of the class. That won’t be you if you are strongly considering other schools like Penn and what not. There are a lot of kids here that just got in because they are IS and Michigan needs to hit that 2:1 ratio.</p>
<p>“The bottom 1/3 of schools like Brown, Duke, and Penn are far superior to Michigan’s bottom third and since undergraduate reputation is reflective of everyone that has received a degree from a university, that makes those three private schools superior to Michigan at the undergraduate level.”</p>
<p>That statement is really sad. To think that somebody could be so superficial and shallow as to judge a university and its alumni by how weak a segment of its student population allegedly is. I would ordinarily delete this sort of trash, but in this case, I think preserving this post for all to see and marvel at is worth it. </p>
<p>“U of M law school asprirants matriculate at mediocre law schools like Michigan State, Wayne State, and especially Cooley Law reflects negatively on the university at the undergraduate level.”</p>
<p>There you go again, passing judgement. But the same can be said of any university, Stanford enrolled several of its students in law schools ranked out of the top 60 in the nation, such as Case Western Reserve University Law School, Michigan State Law School, Saint Thomas Law School, Samford University Law School, Santa Clara Law School, Southwestern Law School, Syracuse Law School, UConn Law School, University of Mississippi Law School, University of Oregon Law School, University of San Diego Law School, University of San Francisco Law School, University of the District of Columbia Law School, University of the Pacific Law School, University of Wyoming Law School, Vermont Law School and Wayne State Law School to name a few. Those represent ~15% of Stanford’s law school matriculants. No university is immune from matriculating students in less-than-stellar law schools. Michigan enrolls more students in T14 Law schools than any other university save Harvard and Yale. Schools like Emory and Johns Hopkins actuall place a larger percentage of their law school matriculants in sub-standard law schools. There is no shame in this. Just because students don’t get into a top Law school does not mean they should give up on their dreams of becoming layers.</p>
<p>“Even at the absolute level, Cornell and Duke seem to be better represented in almost every top professional program outside of Michigan’s own 3. That should tell you something.”</p>
<p>Yes, it tells me that Cornell and Duke students can’t wait to leave campus once they graduate and that they do not intend to return except for class reunions or sporting events. Michigan students, on the other hand, love their experience so much, that they intend on returning to Michigan for grad school at all cost, unless they can get into a top 2 or 3 program (for example Yale, Harvard, Stanford law). 60% of Michigan students admitted into Michigan Law enroll. That’s compared to just 23% of Cornell students admitted into Cornell law who enroll. I am not sure about Duke since they do not release such data, but I would not be surprised if the matriculation rate of Duke students into Duke Law were equally as low. ~50 Michigan students enroll in Michigan Law annually, compared to ~20 Cornell students who enroll in Cornell Law. Even if Cornell places as many students as Michigan in other T14 Law schools, it will not close the gap created by Michigan Law.</p>
<p>And you cannot conveniently ignore the number of Michigan alums who enroll in Michigan graduate programs. Michigan Law, Medical and Business programs are elite. When you add the number who enroll in Michigan graduate programs, Michigan easily surpasses the number of Cornell or Duke alums enrolled in elite graduate programs. That is pretty impressive when you consider that only 25% of Michigan students are premed or prelaw. I do not knjow about Duke, but at Cornell, 40%+ are prelaw and premed. I am fairly certain Duke is in the same neighbourhood. As such, I would expect Cornell and Duke to have similar enrollment figures as Michigan on an absolute scale.</p>
<p>At any rate, until private universities start reporting data with integrity and stop lying to make themselves look better, comparing universities based on faulty and manipulated data is pointless.</p>
<p>“Even at the absolute level, Cornell and Duke seem to be better represented in almost every top professional program outside of Michigan’s own 3. That should tell you something.”</p>
<p>Yes, it tells me that Cornell and Duke students can’t wait to leave campus once they graduate…"</p>
<p>Thanks for the good laugh Alexandre! :-)</p>