Michigan, UVA, William and Mary?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
21

<p>“UVA gets A LOT more people into UVA Law than Michigan into Michigan Law, which is good for UVA grads as UVA Law is a top law school.”</p>

<p>Wahoomb, I am not sure I agree with that statement. </p>

<p>324 Michigan students applied to Michigan law and 91 (28%) of those were accepted.</p>

<p>281 UVa students applied to UVa law and 82 (29%) of those were accepted. </p>

<p>Doesn’t seem like UVa has an advantage. But thanks for the link. We can now make a comparision between Michigan and UVa.</p>

<p>“Also, the fact that Michigan students have an 80% acceptance rate, is pretty meaningless unless they’re going to top law schools. Pretty much everyone that wants to go to law school CAN go to A law school…not necessarily a top one.”</p>

<p>I agree, I was merely responding to Ahmed. But even when it comes to top Law Schools, Michigan and UVa have similar placement rates:</p>

<p>YALE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: N/A
Georgetown University: 49 applied, 1 admitted, 2% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of California-Berkeley: 16 applied, 2 admitted, 13% acceptance rate (3.86 GPA, 169 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 33 applied, 3 admitted, 9% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Pennsylvania: 62 applied, 5 admitted, 5% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: N/A</p>

<p>HARVARD UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 138 applied, 14 admitted, 10% acceptance rate (3.93 GPA, 170 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 114 applied, 14 admitted, 12% acceptance rate (3.83 GPA, 173 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 46 applied, 7 admitted, 15% acceptance rate (3.69 GPA, 169 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 104 applied, 17 admitted, 16% acceptance rate (3.92 GPA, 173 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 152 applied, 21 admitted, 17% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 73 applied, 7 admitted, 9.5% acceptance rate (3.84 GPA, 170 LSAT)</p>

<p>STANFORD UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: N/A
Georgetown University: 74 applied, 5 admitted, 7% acceptance rate (3.8 GPA, 170 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 34 applied, 2 admitted, 6% acceptance rate (3.9 GPA, 173 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 54 applied, 6 admitted, 11% acceptance rate (4.0 GPA, 174 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 98 applied, 8 admitted, 8% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 42 applied, 7 admitted, 17% acceptance rate (3.93 GPA, 168 LSAT)</p>

<p>COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 186 applied, 31 admitted, 17% acceptance rate (3.75 GPA, 173 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 142 applied, 33 admitted, 23% acceptance rate (3.76 GPA, 171 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 48 applied, 17 admitted, 35% acceptance rate (3.76 GPA, 170 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 129 applied, 22 admitted, 17% acceptance rate (3.80 GPA, 172 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 217 applied, 51 admitted, 23% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 109 applied, 19 admitted, 17% acceptance rate (3.78 GPA, 171 LSAT)</p>

<p>NEW YORK UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 185 applied, 40 admitted, 22% acceptance rate (3.76 GPA, 171 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 133 applied, 36 admitted, 27% acceptance rate (3.72 GPA, 172 GPA)
University of California-Berkeley: 44 applied, 16 admitted, 36% acceptance rate (3.69 GPA, 170 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 131 applied, 25 admitted, 19% acceptance rate (3.76 GPA, 172 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 196 applied, 63 admitted, 32% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 81 applied, 22 admitted, 27% acceptance rate (3.66 GPA, 171 LSAT)</p>

<p>UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA-BERKELEY LAW SCHOOL
Cornell University: 125 applied, 18 admitted, 14% acceptance rate (3.8 GPA, 170 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 101 applied, 9 admitted, 9% acceptance rate (3.82 GPA, 167 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 87 applied, 17 admitted, 20% acceptance rate (3.77 GPA, 169 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 109 applied, 12 admitted, 11% acceptance rate (3.9 GPA, 170 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 111 applied, 21 admitted, 19% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 57 applied, 5 admitted, 9% acceptance rate (3.84 GPA, 171 LSAT)</p>

<p>UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 98 applied, 23 admitted, 23% acceptance rate (3.67 GPA, 171 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 76 applied, 11 admitted, 14% acceptance rate (3.71 GPA, 172 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 35 applied, 13 admitted, 37% acceptance rate (3.74 GPA, 170 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 100 applied, 16 admitted, 16% acceptance rate (3.85 GPA, 173 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 96 applied, 34 admitted, 35% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 53 applied, 13 admitted, 25% acceptance rate (3.78 GPA, 172 LSAT)</p>

<p>UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 152 applied, 31 admitted, 20% acceptance rate (3.67 GPA, 169 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 100 applied, 16 admitted, 16% acceptance rate (3.64 GPA, 171 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 26 applied, 5 admitted, 19% acceptance rate (3.76 GPA, 169 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 100 applied, 13 admitted, 13% acceptance rate (3.9 GPA, 168 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 251 applied, 64 admitted, 25% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 80 applied, 15 admitted, 19% acceptance rate (3.77 GPA, 169 LSAT)</p>

<p>UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN-ANN ARBOR LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 133 applied, 28 admitted, 21% acceptance rate (3.72 GPA, 168 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 88 applied, 21 admitted, 24% acceptance rate (3.63 GPA, 168 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 28 applied, 9 admitted, 32% acceptance rate (3.78 GPA, 170 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 324 applied, 91 admitted, 28% acceptance rate (3.69 GPA, 169 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 113 applied, 36 admitted, 32% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 66 applied, 15 admitted, 23% acceptance rate (3.74 GPA, 169 LSAT)</p>

<p>NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: N/A
Georgetown University: 94 applied, 20 admitted, 21% acceptance rate (3.64 GPA, 167 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 19 applied, 0 admitted, 0% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 135 applied, 23 admitted, 17% acceptance rate (3.68 GPA, 168 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 104 applied, 31 admitted, 30% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 45 applied, 6 admitted, 13% acceptance rate, (3.78 GPA, 170 LSAT)</p>

<p>UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 128 applied, 32 admitted, 25% acceptance rate (3.77 GPA, 170 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 101 applied, 22 admitted, 22% acceptance rate (3.61 GPA, 169 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 23 applied, 3 admitted, 13% acceptance rate (3.98 GPA, 172 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 95 applied, 25 admitted, 26% acceptance rate (3.79 GPA, 171 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 101 applied, 22 admitted, 22% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 281 applied, 82 admitted, 29% acceptance rate (3.68 GPA, 167 LSAT)</p>

<p>CORNELL UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 229 applied, 70 admitted, 31% acceptance rate (3.61 GPA, 166 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 74 applied, 31 admitted, 42% acceptance rate (3.57 GPA, 166 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 22 applied, 4 admitted, 18% acceptance rate (3.67 GPA, 168 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 78 applied, 22 admitted, 28% acceptance rate (3.69 GPA, 166 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 87 applied, 29 admitted, 33% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 39 applied, 12 admitted, 31% acceptance rate (3.61 GPA, 167 LSAT)</p>

<p>DUKE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 147 applied, 50 admitted, 34% acceptance rate (3.73 GPA, 170 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 94 applied, 31 admitted, 33% acceptance rate (3.72 GPA, 170 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 26 applied, 11 admitted, 42% acceptance rate (3.77 GPA, 172 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 95 applied, 28 admitted, 29% acceptance rate (3.75 GPA, 171 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 120 applied, 40 admitted, 33% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 89 applied, 25 admitted, 28% acceptance rate (3.76 GPA, 170 LSAT)</p>

<p>GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL:
Cornell University: 245 applied, 66 admitted, 27% acceptance rate (3.64 GPA, 169 LSAT)
Georgetown University: 323 applied, 95 admitted, 29% acceptance rate (3.64 GPA, 167 LSAT)
University of California-Berkeley: 56 applied, 24 admitted, 43% acceptance rate (3.64 GPA, 164 LSAT)
University of Michigan-Ann Arbor: 194 applied, 39 admitted, 20% acceptance rate (3.72 GPA, 168 LSAT)
University of Pennsylvania: 241 applied, 84 admitted, 35% acceptance rate (N/A)
University of Virginia: 212 applied, 57 admitted, 27% acceptance rate (3.65 GPA, 169 LSAT)</p>

22

<p>i’m glad we sorted that out.</p>

23

<p>Overall, Michigan students’ rate of acceptance (according to the website, might even be the same link you sent me) is 7 percent above the national average. UVa’s is 6 percent above the national average. William and Mary’s is 12 percent above the national average. This is for all graduate schools collectively, and it’s from their own websites. (Also from an admissions officers at UVA, Tech, and William and Mary). </p>

<p>I know it’s possible to get into graduate school from any college, but with over 60 percent of the undergraduates participating in extensive research, over 87 percent of the current upperclassmen studying abroad, the excellent advising, and the close professor availability/interaction, they really prepare you as a graduate applicant and as a student exceptionally well.
For med school the check list (from what many med school students tell me):</p>

<p>Good recommendation (Very important)
High GPA (very important)
Good advising (important)
Pre med requirements
Solid MCAT scores (Very important)
Community Service / Clinical experience (Important)
Studying abroad (Somewhat important)
Undergraduate Research (Important)</p>

<p>Considering all these, I really think W&M would be personally best for me. Also, the campus and the student body there have been my favorite of the three choices. I know it sounds like I’ve already made up my mind, but I really think a good experience with a sit in at UM for a class in any field I’m interested in could change the situation completely.</p>

<p>And to Alexandre and Wahoomb — thank you so much for the specific numbers and information for law school admission. Saves me hours of trouble finding them!</p>

24

<p>Ahmed, you should not look at placement rates as an absolute. there are several criteria that go into determining placement rates. Some schools actively discourage certain applicants from applying in the first place whereas others do not. That alone makes a difference in placement rates. Generally speaking, Michigan, UVa and W&M are all granted full respect by most admissions committees. As such, they will not differentiate between applicants from those schools and applicants from other elites, including the Ivies.</p>

25

<p>I know it’s not an absolute, as I have stated above. However, I don’t think that W&M advisers discourage certain students from applying any more or less than at Michigan or UVA. I’m going to visit again this weekend and I just got an email back from a professor so I will be able to sit in for a chemistry class. If I have a very good experience, then I will reconsider, but as of now I think William and Mary is the best of the three for me personally.</p>

26

<p>Ahmed, something is fishy about the placement rate. Most universities that have a better than 70% placement rate into Medical school either have lower academic standards or a policy for discouraging applicants who do not meet a certain standard. But two students of equal calibre at Michigan and W&M will be received roughly the same by a Medical School adcom with one notable exception, the University of Michigan Medical school which will favor the Michigan applicant over the W&M applicant. Otherwise, the two students should be given equal consideration by most other medical schools.</p>

27

<p>If you are interested in public policy, you might wanna check out the Gerald Ford School of Public Policy while you are at AA ([The</a> University of Michigan | Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy](<a href=“http://www.fordschool.umich.edu/]The”>http://www.fordschool.umich.edu/)). It’s such a popular program that it’s not open to transfers.</p>

<p>Also check out the Undergraduate Research Opportunity Program ([Undergraduate</a> Research Opportunity Program | The University of Michigan](<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/urop/]Undergraduate”>Undergraduate Research Opportunity Program (UROP) | U-M LSA)). There are plenty more undergrad research opportunities at U-M; the UROP allows you to sign up as a freshman.</p>

28

<p>“Ahmed, something is fishy about the placement rate. Most universities that have a better than 70% placement rate into Medical school either have lower academic standards or a policy for discouraging applicants who do not meet a certain standard.”</p>

<p>Alex hit the nail right on the head here. Acceptance rates are virtually meaningless and should be taken with a grain of salt. Any pre-med that has gone through the process knows this. Several schools screen their applicants, leading to much higher percentages that don’t accurately reflect the quality of applicants. For example, Christopher Newport University has a 100% acceptance rate to medical school. Are you telling me that Christopher Newport University is a better school for pre-med then Yale or Harvard, which have lower acceptance rates?</p>

<p>Hell, at some schools they have a specific pre-health committee that won’t even support your application with a letter if you don’t meet certain GPA requirements. Michigan has no such committee.</p>

29

<p>I’m not trying to suggest W&M is better because of the graduate placement. All I’m saying is that all three colleges prepare you well for graduate school. William and Mary so far is my personal favorite and best fit, but I need to go to Ann Arbor this weekend and check out that class on monday morning. </p>

<p>One thing I’m concerned about is the work load. I’m not a guy that likes to back away from academic challenges, but neither am I a guy that will do “whatever it takes” and sacrifice an enjoyable college experience for a better chance at medical school. I’ve heard at all three schools that for pre med requirement classes the work load is extremely overwhelming.</p>

30

<p>Premed tends ot be tough no matter where you go to college, but especially so at top universities, where you invariably have a large population of gifted students all wanting to go to Medical school!</p>

31

<p>Ahmed, the people who tell you premed is overwhelming are either 1) extremely bad at time management or 2) don’t have the basic mental aptitude needed to do well. The truth of the matter is that pre-med is perfectly manageable if you have any semblance of intelligence and a good work ethic. You don’t need to sacrifice. You might have to study Thursday nights when the soc, comm, and psych majors are out partying, but, for the most part, you can enjoy the typical college experience. You seem like an intelligent person, so I’m sure you will be fine.</p>

32

<p>Surprise with those stats of top law school acceptances. If acceptance from top 30 was low, interesting to see the acceptance from students in universities rank closer to 100.</p>

33

<p>CC, I really appreciate that response. That is somewhat relieving, because I am not much of a party animal. My main concern was being able to have time to do community service, play some intramural/club sports, and going out to the movies or dinner with friends once in a while. From what you have described, I think as long as I keep reasonable limits on extra stuff, I shouldn’t have too many problems keeping up with academics as long as I put in the work.</p>

34

<p>don’t know enough about w&m and uva to speak about it them. but if you’re interested in IR or government, michigan’s ford school of public policy is top-notch. our chem program is also very solid, especially if you’re interested in undergrad research.</p>

35

<p>In fact, Michigan’s Chemistry department is known to be very undergrad focused and friendly…so are our Math and Physics departments. Actually, with the exception of the major programs (Biology, Econ, English, Political Science and Psychology), Michigan is suprisingly undergraduate focused. Popular majors tend to be harder to manage, not just at Michigan but at most top universities.</p>

36

<p>“Surprise with those stats of top law school acceptances. If acceptance from top 30 was low, interesting to see the acceptance from students in universities rank closer to 100.”</p>

<p>Michigan students tend to apply to T-14 law schools (all my pre-law friends are applying to the likes of Harvard, Yale, Michigan, etc.). Getting into a T-14 law school is really difficult and unpredictable; thus, acceptance rates will be lower even for top schools. </p>

<p>On the other hand, students at lower ranked schools tend to not apply to top law schools and probably have higher acceptance rates as a result. Getting into a top 50 or 100 law school is easy, but has diminishing returns especially in today’s economy. From what my pre-law friends tell me, if you don’t go to a top school, you really have no chance of getting those coveted positions at high-end law firms. Law is really all about prestige.</p>

37

<p>These days, graduate school admission is so competitive that there really is no “easy in” graduate school. Some are easier than others, sure, but none of them are that easy.</p>

<p>I’m not giving too much consideration to these stats, but they are self reported stats. I highly doubt W&M would try to stretch them any more than UVA or Michigan. Also, keep in mind that these acceptance rates include all graduate schools, not just the top ones. Even though the top schools’ admissions are much tougher, it should not affect the rate too much because the vast majority of the students applying to the top schools should apply to a few lower tier schools as well.</p>

<p>With that said, this isn’t going to tip my decision one way or the other, I was just bringing it up to show that I have a good chance at achieving my career goals from any of the three.</p>

38

<p>When I said ‘lower-ranked’ schools, I wasn’t referring to W&M. W&M is a solid school and gets a lot of respect, especially where I’m from. One thing you may want to consider, though, is the grade deflation that happens at William and Mary, which may not be great if you plan to pursue medicine.</p>

39

<p>Yeah that’s something I’m very concerned about. That GPA cutoff that many med schools look at really concerns me, and getting a GPA of 4.0 is unheard of (which probably means most classes must be tough to make A’s in) at William and Mary.</p>

<p>However, the students that I talked to (that went through WM for premed) have ensured me that as long as I put in a solid amount of effort and learn to manage my time, I’ll have plenty of free time to enjoy the college experience and should have a good chance to get into medical school. Plus if I work my behind off for the first two years, I can go for the Early Assurance program for Eastern Virginia Med school.</p>

40

<p>It sounds like you know in your gut W&M is the best for you. Its a great school, esp for undergrads.</p>