“Our” scores? What was the difference in average scores back when you attended U$C? 
My average scores were higher too…
My scores were higher than yours…smh
Haha!
USC has the best fight song just because it drives opponents up the wall.
“Nope, the fundamental difference is USC is a private school where 46 percent of the kids come from private high schools. Think a larger version of Stanford insofar as culture and vibe and demographics. Our student body is closer to Berkeley in terms of SAT stats.”
SeattleTW, I am not sure what any of this means, but one thing is clear you love generalizing, often without adequate evidence to support your claims. Are you suggesting that USC students are wealthier or smarter than Cal or Michigan students? All evidence would suggest that they are identical in terms of test scores:
Mid 50% SAT:
Cal
CR 600-730
M 630-760
W 610-740
Michigan
CR 620-720
M 660-760
W 640-730
USC
CR 620-720
M 660-760
W 640-740
Mid 50% ACT:
Cal 28-33
Michigan 29-33
USC 29-33
http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/docs/USCFreshmanProfile.2014.pdf
http://opa.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/uc_berkeley_cds_2014-15_march.pdf (Cection C)
http://obp.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/pubdata/cds/cds_2014-2015_umaa.pdf (Section C)
Considering their size, it is impressive that they manage to attract students with scores almost identical to those at universities like Brown, Cornell, Penn etc…
As for your comment about private high school kids, which high schools are you referring to exactly? Most private high schools aren’t academically robust and merely enrol wealthy children with standard intellectual abilities. But it is not possible to compare Cal and Michigan to USC since Cal and Michigan do not publish what percentage of their freshman class graduated from private high schools.
That being said, Cal and Michigan seem to attract as many, if not more, students from elite East Coast high schools:
Phillips Andover (2012-2014 matriculations)
Cal 13
Michigan 12
USC 8
Phillips Exeter (2012-2014)
Cal 9
Michigan 14
USC 13
St Paul’s School (2011-2014 matriculations)
Cal 11
Michigan 16
USC 5
Dalton
Cal 1
Michigan 8
USC 3
Lawrenceville (2011-2014)
Cal
Michigan 7
USC 8
Hotchkiss (2011-2014)
Cal 2
Michigan 5
USC 8
Trinity School (2009-2014)
Cal
Michigan 5
USC 3
https://www.sps.edu/ftpimages/36/download/download_1141212.pdf
http://www.andover.edu/Academics/CollegeCounseling/Documents/PASchoolProfile2014-2015.pdf
http://www.exeter.edu/documents/College_Matriculation.pdf
http://www.dalton.org/program/high_school/college_counseling?rc=0
http://www.lawrenceville.org/academics/college-counseling/matriculation/index.aspx
http://www.trinityschoolnyc.org/Page/Our-Program/College-Counseling/Trinity-School-Matriculation
http://www.hotchkiss.org/academics/college-advising/matriculation-list/index.aspx
If Pell grant recipients are anything to go by, Michigan’s student body (12% Pell Grant recipients) is wealthier than USC (24% Pell Grant recipient) and Cal (32% Pell Grant recipients).
http://72.32.39.237:8080/Plone/publications/pdfs/pb230/pellgrant.pdf
I’m not suggesting at all that USC students are brighter, but having attended two of them, I couldn’t help but notice the socio economic differences. Everywhere I turned at USC, I met kids like I who went to private schools. And I do believe private schools generally provide a superior high school education.
It’s interesting you post those stats because I’m well aware of them. Except for Stanford, USC attracts the most top East Coast prep school grads on the West Coast. But there are many great prep schools out here that represent well at USC.
I’m also not surprised that UM also attracts many as well because of where they are located – in a place few remain after graduation. UM does have a large contingent of Chicago/East Coast/NY students, and many are wealthy.
Nonetheless, I had never met “poor” Caucasians until I went to Michigan, kids from Ypsilanti, Flint, Monroe and elsewhere whose parents were on welfare, some tied to the union-based car industry. Yes, I know there are many from Gross Point, where I spent time, and Bloomfield Hills. And there were only a tiny number of Asians or Hispanics; it was largely white with a small number of blacks.
At USC, by contrast, the place was far more ethnically diverse, and the only poor kids I met were URMs. I suspect that’s where most of the Pell grants go. I don’t intend to sound demeaning, it’s just what I observed.
Perhaps things have changed in A2 but I would not say the two schools have the same type of undergrad, except for overall SAT scores, etc.
“I’m also not surprised that UM also attracts many as well because of where they are located – in a place few remain after graduation. UM does have a large contingent of Chicago/East Coast/NY students, and many are wealthy.”
The statement above doesn’t make sense to me.
" Yes, I know there are many from Gross Point, where I spent time, and Bloomfield Hills."
Amazing that you spent time in an area and don’t know how to spell the name of the town correctly.
Lol, yes, I forgot the “e.” I meant to state that despite being in the middle of nowhere, UM attracts kids from all over because it’s a top school.
“Lol, yes, I forgot the “e.” I meant to state that despite being in the middle of nowhere, UM attracts kids from all over because it’s a top school.”
Ann Arbor is hardly in the middle of nowhere SeattleTW. There are over 5 million people living within the Detroit CSA. More people than there are in the Seattle area btw.
SeattleTW, your observation of University of Michigan’s undergraduate student demographics is completely off. Perhaps you are basing your perception of Michigan on a statistically irrelevant sample size of students that you interacted with, but remember that Michigan has over 25,000 undergraduate students.
The only way to draw any accurate observation on a student body that large is statistically. When I attended Michigan in 1992, 60% of Michigan undergrads came from households that earned 6 figures. That may not seem like much today, but in 1992, it was very high. That’s because in the midwest, the wealthiest families are perfectly happy sending their children to public universities.
Michigan is not unique in thos regard. Colorado-Boulder, UVa and Vermont are three other public universities that I know of with wealthy student populations.
40% of Michigan students are OOS or international. The vast majority of those (read almost 100% of them) pay $60k/year to attend the school. No matter how you look at it, those students come from wealthy families. Instate students are divided into three equally well represented socioeconomic groups; low income, middle income and wealthy. Altogether, I would estimate that 50-60% of Michigan students come from upper middle income-wealthy families while another 30% or so come from middle income-lower middle income families. You are probably not going to find a wealthier student body than Michigan’s. Another statistic that is telling is the percentage of undergraduate students that qualify for Pell grants. Only 12% of Michigan students qualify, which is very low. This is not something one should brag about mind you. Universities should be meritocratic and admit students based on their intellectual abilities, not their ability to pay full tuition.
I agree with you that there isn’t much in common between Michigan and USC students, but the differences are not a matter of socioeconomics or academic/intellectual ability.If anything, a cursory look at Michigan vs USC representation at top graduate programs would suggest that Michigan undergraduate students are probably more academically accomplished than their USC counterparts. The reason for the difference in their respective student bodies is due to the fact that those two universities are very different culturally and located in very different settings and therefore attract very different types of students.
“If Pell grant recipients are anything to go by, Michigan’s student body (12% Pell Grant recipients) is wealthier than USC (24% Pell Grant recipient) and Cal (32% Pell Grant recipients).”
“40% of Michigan students are OOS or international. The vast majority of those (read almost 100% of them) pay $60k/year to attend the school. No matter how you look at it, those students come from wealthy families.”
Ironic given USC’s reputation. USC made a big deal out of their socioeconomic diversity today. This was a positive to my D given what she had heard.
“Ann Arbor is hardly in the middle of nowhere SeattleTW. There are over 5 million people living within the Detroit CSA.”
I admit I was surprised by this stat. Do many UM grads stay in Detroit? Is the economy primarily auto industry related?
Sidkane, first of all, Ann Arbor itself is a midsized city with a population of one third of a million people when you include its metropolitan area. Within a 50 mile radius, you have a population of 5+ million, and the headquarters of several companies, including Dow Chemicals (second largest Chemical firm in the US), Kellogg (the cereal company), Dominos Pizza (HQ in Ann Arbor), Borders Bookstore (RIP) etc… Obviously, the automakers all have their WHQs in the area as well. Detroit is also a music and transportation hub. Naturally, having so many large companies in the area means that there will be large services companies too, such as hospitals (University of Michigan’s hospital is considered one of the largest and best in the nation), law firms and consulting companies. The Detroit Metropolitan Airport, located 20 miles from the Michigan campus, is one of the 20 busiest airports in the US, with non-stop flights to every major city in North America and Europe. To suggest that Ann Arbor is in the middle of nowhere as SeattleTW does is ridiculous. I have noticed that Coastal Americans have serious prejudice against the Midwest. It is the only way I can explain his perception of the area.
Numbers are deceiving. Many USC undergrads study business, accounting, engineering and other pre professional disciplines and don’t go onto grad school. That doesn’t make them any less academically unaccomplished, but is more indicative of the value they perceive of their bachelor degree.
"Nonetheless, I had never met “poor” Caucasians until I went to Michigan, kids from Ypsilanti, Flint, Monroe and elsewhere whose parents were on welfare, some tied to the union-based car industry. Yes, I know there are many from Gross Point, where I spent time, and Bloomfield Hills. And there were only a tiny number of Asians or Hispanics; it was largely white with a small number of blacks.
At USC, by contrast, the place was far more ethnically diverse, and the only poor kids I met were URMs. I suspect that’s where most of the Pell grants go. I don’t intend to sound demeaning, it’s just what I observed."
You not only sound demeaning, oh but let’s see I’ll go with ignorant and snobbish. Us white trash will now go back to our garage sales, country music and corner bars. And you can go back to mentoring those “poor kids” who I’m sure want you to stuff it.
@wayneandgarth - That is really uncalled for.
“Numbers are deceiving. Many USC undergrads study business, accounting, engineering and other pre professional disciplines and don’t go onto grad school.”
Many Michigan undergrads study business, accounting, engineering, and other pre professional disciplines as well. What is your point?
They don’t go to grad school.
“I admit I was surprised by this stat. Do many UM grads stay in Detroit? Is the economy primarily auto industry related?”
I would say that the majority of Michigan graduates do not stay in the Detroit area after graduation. First of all, the majority of the students attending are not from the Detroit area and secondly, the Michigan pedigree travels extremely well. Michigan is not a regional university, it is a global one. Unfortunately there is definitely a brain drain going on in the state where the UM is concerned, but that is probably mostly attributed to very high percentage of OOS students.