From the automatic merit list, a 3.5+ GPA needs at least a 26 ACT to find a full ride with engineering majors (Prairie View A&M in Texas). But it looks like Alabama A&M may have full tuition at 23 ACT, if it is commutable or you can afford room and board etc. costs. http://www.aamu.edu/admissions/fincialaid/documents/academicscholarshipbrochure1819x.pdf
"@NPKR01: If someone can’t afford to pay for a given college tuition rate, why not have those parents and students take out loans, to the extent that they can qualify, or go to a less expensive college, such as an in-state or cc?
So this is your solution? Shut lower income families out of all but the local commuter school or cc?"
Nice straw man you’ve thrown out there. If you can’t afford a private college it doesn’t relegate a student/family to “commuter school or cc.” There are plenty of more affordable and excellent in-state public universities, many if not most of which of which are not “commuter schools.” Unless, of course, you are one of those people who still think instate public schools are inherently inferior. Is there something wrong with a less affluent family’s child going to UVA, William & Mary, UCal, Texas A&M, U of Kentuky, U of Florida, Georgia Tech, etc? I don’t think so. And I know most people here on this forum don’t think so. And there is nothing wrong with these families taking out loans to pay. You expect the middle class/donut hole families to take out loans (because many will not qualify for FA under the present system) so why not less affluent students as well? These less affluent students and their parents should be able to carry debt after graduation just like middle class/donut hole families are expected to. But, of course, you side-stepped that issue I raised in my prior post because it is difficult to justify middle class having to take out loans and carrying debt but not the less affluent.
By your same logic, if one’s family can’t afford a top-of-the-line Mercedes Benz, it appears you would think ‘lower income families are shut out of purchasing all cars but the “inferior” Toyotas, Fords, Nissans,’ and on and on. By this way of thinking, I guess you might think there is shame in driving a Toyota Camry instead of a Mercedes. By your way of thinking, maybe we should start giving FA to those who can’t afford a Mercedes Benz. But why stop there? How about financial aid to all who can’t afford a huge house in the most prestigious neighborhood. And maybe FA for everything else in life where some can afford more than someone else.
“@npkro1 I have been mulling over your argument that higher education is the only area where price varies by income. I believe you are looking at the wrong way. The price of college is the price, but because it is a vital resource, lower income families receive aid to help cover the cost. This is really no different from food stamps, medicaid and housing subsidies. The price of food is the price, but the poor get subsidies to defray the cost.”
@gallentjill You are actually making my argument for me. I think all should have opportunity for higher education. If you want to term it a “vital resource” that’s fine. But food stamps, medicaid and housing received by the poor is a very basic level of subsistence, not whatever level the poor choose to receive. “Food stamps, medicaid, and housing subsidies” are paid for by tax payers and so are public in-state universities. These public universities are there for those who can’t afford the more expensive schools.
And, again, why can’t the less affluent take out loans? They may need to take out loans to afford even an in-state public university but that’s ok. If middle class can be burdened with loans to pay for college why not less affluent as well? Once these kids graduate form college they will have variable incomes. Many college graduate kids from the less affluent families will be earning more money than the kids from middle class families. So why shouldn’t they and their families have to pay back loans just like middle class families?
So why no loans for the less affluent, too? You and other posters on here never cover that part. You seem to side-step it.
@NPKR01, I’m sorry you’re so resentful of the financial aid policies of selective universities. If you truly qualify for $0 need based aid, you’re not middle class. The median US income is ~$50k. Most students already attend cc or commuter schools because their families can’t afford residential college even with the current need based aid programs so, yes, eliminating need based aid would further limit actual middle income families.
Low income and truly middle class families do borrow for college. That’s what the federal student loan program is. We, as a society, have decided to invest in the development of students from a broad range of economic backgrounds. I’m sorry you don’t see the value in that. If you’re so eager to join their ranks it’s not difficult to qualify for the same aid packages. Quit your job and dispose of your assets. Unless your kid has stellar stats and is fortunate enough to get one of the limited seats at one of the few elite universities that meet need, the extent of your aid will be a $5900 Pell Grant and the ~$5500/year federal student loan. Good luck paying for any residential college with that windfall.
I do think that @NPKR01 may be laboring under a misapprehension here. ALL schools which require loans as part of the aid package require them from all students, merit aside. And the very tippy-top FA schools have no-loan policy for everyone. So middle class families would also have grants to cover their need, not loans. And those (extremely few) no-loan schools have extremely generous aid policies for incomes up to a very high definition of need.
Everywhere else, low income students are required to take out loans. This should ease your mind. I think it very clearly is a case of some missing information here.
You can accept a merit award without accepting a loan.
Right, of course, that’s why I said besides merit–which is not income-dependent.
A 23 ACT and 3.GPA will qualify your son for the Amigo scholarship at the University of New Mexico.
https://scholarship.unm.edu/scholarships/non-resident.html
The Amigo is automatic for students who meet the criteria. It remits the OOS tuition differential. UNM’s in-state tuition is $7146/year and room & board $9662/year. (There are cheaper housing options available.)
A $5500 student loan plus a full Pell grant will cover all his tuition plus 1/3 of the standard room&board.
UNM has an ABET accredited chemE program (but not petroleum engineering), and offers a BSN program. Nursing students train at the medical school hospital which is directly across the street from the main campus.
The Amigo is also available for transfer students.
I’m moved to post just because this very topic (middle class “flight” to community colleges) is getting a lot of water cooler talk at work (Oakland, CA). It’s a trend that makes more and more sense, the more one ponders the trade-offs. I did the typical 4 year route at UC Berkeley (econ), and in retrospect there was a profound difference in the quality of instruction between underclassmen (frosh, soph) and upperclassmen.
There were a couple pretty entertaining professors for some of the auditorium style lectures, but… an occasionally entertaining lecture is not worth everything else, including cost. I’ve been very impressed by the will to teach and explain things 1:1 with the community college professors I’ve talked to. At a place like Berkeley, the professors want you out of their world, the TA’s leading sections often don’t care and in quantitative subjects often struggle with English, and to the extent you get good grades (I did) it’s because you came up with your own system for absorbing whatever was in the textbook.
During junior and senior years, especially if you had a senior thesis advisor, then things were not bad, actually good sometimes. But spending full tuition for cr@ppy lectures getting the first two years of prerequisite classes out of the way is just not a good way to go. Community college is a better route for everyone, I think, regardless of income.
Starting at community college is a good route for many, but some students may be better off starting at a four year school:
A. Students who will enter already advanced in course work so that they will be taking upper division courses earlier than third year.
B. Students in majors that require specialized frosh/soph level courses that are not commonly offered at community colleges, so that students who start at community colleges need to take them as “catch up” after transfer before taking upper division courses.
Obviously, many students in common majors (business, biology, economics, history, etc.) will not have the above situations apply to them, so that starting at community college can be an attractive option for them. But saying that it is better for “everyone” overstates the case.
Students are different. Family situations are different. What works for one student may not be beneficial for another. That is the good thing about having choices.
If I were a smart kid who didn’t want to study hard in high school for various reasons, I would go to a CC after high school and transfer. I think it’s an excellent idea. My relative transferred to UCLA with 3.4 GPA at Santa Monica around 5 years ago. He told me his friends there with 3.8 GPAs managed to transfer to Berkeley. He also told me it’s gotten tougher to transfer to UCLA and Berkeley.
This is our story. My son was accepted into several colleges but the cost was high. His learning disability and not prioritizing his grades over everything else negatively impacted his hs grades (3.2). The very little in aid he was offered didn’t make much of a financial difference. He did have a great time in high school, involved in many activities along with receiving national recognition for a program he started, so there’s no regrets.
He decided to go the California cc transfer route. He only had a twinge of doubt at first if this was the right decision when he saw his friends post about moving in to dorms etc. Soon enough he discovered he loved his classes and professors. He was so inspired by them and had many conversations, it was life changing for a kid who never felt learning was fun. He didn’t have to worry about being “weeded out” - his classes were purely about learning. He took advantage of advisement, tutors and all the resources. Our community college was truly a gem for him. He says this was his opportunity to show what he can accomplish related to his education.
He finished in 2 years, and is now in his first month as a junior at UC Berkeley. It’s the first time in my adult working life I can say living in California has financially benefitted us. For the win!
@websensation, it also depends on the major.
UCs admit transfers by major and some majors are orders of magnitude more selective than others.
@Purr-rito Great story. Congrats. I also know one parent whose kid went to a very good public HS in CA, didn’t like many of the teachers etc and didn’t get as high GPA he could have, went to a lower ranked UC and then got 3.9 GPA and then was unsure whether he should transfer to Berkeley at all but his school dean told him to and he transferred and is still getting 3.9 GPA, which shows me that if you are a good student at a decent college, you can be a good student anywhere. However, the parent did tell me his kid had to work twice harder to get the same GPA at Berkeley.
@PurpleTitan Yes, his major was NOT a competitive major. Even so, I was very surprised he managed to transfer to UCLA. Seeing his experience and others’ experience, I definitely see that this route is the RIGHT route for many kids. If you are not the kind of kid who wants to stress over GPA and test scores, you don’t have to and can get to the same point through different routes. For myself, I actually made it my goal to not care about GPA in college and graduate school (I just didn’t like to study much but instead worked a lot) because I felt confident that I would end up at a place I wanted to be in future. Call it faith or a strong belief in myself but . . . it worked out. I would say my low GPA forced me to take more chances and not waste time after school.