<p>From what I have read on the board EFC seems to often be 1/3 to 1/4 of before tax income.
Allowing that for all income groups- EFC is meant to be paid from savings- loans as well as current income-1/4 of before tax income seems pretty clear-</p>
<p>Many schools don't come close to meeting EFC as others have noted.
The schools that do meet 100% of need are fairly competitive.
What would you suggest to determine EFC?</p>
<p>
[quote]
The way I read my post- I was summing up the statements that you have been making about costs- I wasnt using a direct quote.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ok, then please quote a few of my posts that led you to believe I was asking the "question" you claimed I was asking. If you were really summarizing my posts (and not just setting up a straw man), you shouldn't have a problem doing this.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Gripe all you want- not that I doubt that you expect permission, but don't expect alot of sympathy from those who will never see $50 an hour, let alone $150
[/quote]
</p>
<p>On fundamental aspect of your misunderstanding is that you think I am complaining just on my own behalf. My wife and I both come from relatively wealthy families and there is a good chance that the grandparents of my children will end up paying for their college. There is also a decent chance that my income will be high enough that when my children Godwilling enter college, I'll be able to simply write a check.</p>
<p>But even if I do not personally suffer, it doesn't change the basic unfairnesses that I've pointed out in this thread.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You would not understand.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Perhaps not, but at least other people reading the thread would see that you can explain the terms that you use and answer the questions that you casually toss out to others.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What would you suggest to determine EFC?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If I were the king of college tuition and financial aid, I would not consider family income or assets at all in setting prices. Instead, I would set one low price that everyone pays, and set it low enough that even the poorest student can pay for college between modest savings; loans; working part time and in the summers; and living inexpensively.</p>
<p>The tone of this thread has become a bit negative. I don;t share all the animus on this point. </p>
<p>I'm somewhat amused, in a sad kind of way, that many people have decided that participating in the broadest, strongest, and most accessible system of higher education is somehow imbued with unfairness and injustice. If the US college system was an ice cream shop, it would offer 400 flavors, and carry prices between a nickel and $20. Take your pick. </p>
<p>Life is not fair, financial aid is not "fair", college admissions are not "fair", my flat tire the other day was not "Fair". Get over it. I'm part of the great middle class who gets no aid. If my son went to Villanova, for example, to which he applied, he'd be paying $44K while the average kid sitting next to him in class would be paying $25K. Fair? I don't know, and don't much care., But it doesn't feel good, and that's one of the reaons he won't be going to VIllanova. (He's going to Penn State in the fall.) </p>
<p>My niece and nephew both go to solid state schools in California. The cost is ridiculously low. It's enough to get you to move to CA just to put kids through college.</p>
<p>I'm gonna focus on the fact that my kid gets to go to a strong public university with a national reputation, with absolutly not a dollar of aid, and not bankrupt the family. I'll let some of the rest of you get all upset that Harvard has not met your demands.</p>
<p>Fair? There's no such thing. Get over it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Fair? There's no such thing. Get over it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's right, just sit in the back of the bus and don't complain. People in other countries have it much worse.</p>
<p>[the foregoing was sarcasm]</p>
<p>We did what hvccgolf has done. Our son is at a public school. I see it as voting with our feet, and our dollar. More and more people with a similar efc to us are doing that. Our kid got into some private schools that were priced similar to Villanova, and my son did get some merit aid at a few, or some financial aid, but it still was not enough for our family to make it work.</p>
<p>lskinner - You are most welcome to complain all you want. Perhaps it will make you feel better.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That's right, just sit in the back of the bus and don't complain. People in other countries have it much worse.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Comparing your gripes about financial aid to Jim Crow segregation? ....priceless!</p>
<p>garland - thanks for pointing out the hyperbole therein. </p>
<p>But perhaps you are unaware of each citizen's constitutional right to attend an Ivy of one's choice, at subsidized expense.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Comparing your gripes about financial aid to Jim Crow segregation? ....priceless!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sure, why not? Somebody in this thread made the claim that one should never complain about any policy as long as one has "choices." Another person claimed "Fair? There's no such thing. Get over it."</p>
<p>The example of segregation illustrates the silliness of the "get over it" argument. Reducio ad absurdum, or something like that.</p>
<p>Quote: "Sure, why not"? </p>
<p>That question needs to speak for itself.</p>
<p>I agree with northeast mom- what we saw of merit aid- albeit was only at public schools, wasn't enough to make a difference in expenses.</p>
<p>We also know families whose EFC is quite high, but I expect that since their income has been high for a while, that they also have healthy college accounts, their kids are attending instate colleges although some are also attending- as expensive as private, out of state schools- I don't think it is just "money" either, but the programs they offer.</p>
<p>While I would like to be able to send my #2 to private, as I think she could do well with a smaller support system- and as a first gen student I think she needs it, we are going to spend a lot of time researching the opportunities at instate public schools and schools that participate in the undergrad exchange ( tuition of 150% of instate)</p>
<p>In IRL, those who have EFCs similar to ours- send their kids to instate public school( inc CCs), if they go to college at all.</p>
<p>Those who have higher EFCs, send their kids to instate or out of state public-occasionally less competitive private schools that offer merit.</p>
<p>While my daughters grad class at her private prep school- did mainly attend private colleges ( except for the 1/5th that took one or more years off)- they were already a selective group, being from families that had already made a commitment to education to the point of paying for prep school, including those on aid.</p>
<p>There have been other threads discussing ways to go loan free, comparing honors colleges, and other less expensive options to full pay at Ivies.
If the goal is to continue to build a strong base of education, not to build a strong base of education with a snazzy name attached, there are many options.</p>
<p>I don't expect to enlighten anyone who isn't ready to see that others have a different perspective and priorities- but for those whose priority is to see that their kids get a strong education from K-16, there are a lot of ways to increase that possibility.</p>
<p>Frankly rather than worrying about those in the top 5% having to send their kids to public universities rather than taking out a 2nd mortgage, I am more interested in what universities are doing to not only admit students from low income/first gen. groups, but which provide supports for graduation.</p>
<p>ek, I agree with your post. I would like to see both middle class and poor students making it at private schools though. I don't worry about how the wealthy will pay 45-50,000/year, but a middle class kid (yes, in NYC, Boston, etc., an efc of say 25,000 means a gross income of around 100,000. I know here is where many posters part company with me, but this is middle class in high cost areas of the country. This is not wealth. Wealth to me, are sitting in upward of over a million dollar homes, and we have homes near us valued at well over 5,000,000). A middle class kid who gets a merit award of 10,000 at a school that starts out costing 45,000 freshman year, and gets nothing else in financial aid grants, often will pick the public school. I have seen it. They also cannot make the 32,000 payment (45,000-10,000-about 3,000-stafford). Their parents do also want to keep their home (not lose it b/c of debt they cannot afford, as lskinner points out). They are not going to go much further into debt, though many private schools would like that. They vote with their feet and go public.</p>
<p>lskin - chill, and go back to my prior posts. </p>
<p>I'm perfectly fine with the fact that, as a middle-class guy, I have no access to meaningful financial aid. Like Northeastmom we have planned accordingly, made a decision about college with which we are quite pleased, and are looking forward to the fall.</p>
<p>No gnashing of teeth, making analogies to racial injustice of collossal proportion, or railing against the injustice of it all. </p>
<p>We are, dare I say, quite pleased with the whole thing.</p>
<p>I am very grateful for our son's OOS public. His first year was a very good experience. He has never been happier. I am just grateful that we have been able to pay for it. Frankly, this is a stretch for us, so no regrets about not going to a more costly situation for us. It costs about 3,000 more than what Rutgers would have cost us (instate), but Rutgers would have been a poor fit for our son.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm perfectly fine with the fact that, as a middle-class guy, I have no access to meaningful financial aid. Like Northeastmom we have planned accordingly, made a decision about college with which we are quite pleased, and are looking forward to the fall.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Good for you. I imagine that at some point in your life, you will have a legitimate complaint about something and you will feel the need to voice your feelings. I wonder if you will speak up, or if you will just "get over it."</p>
<p>Key words being "legitimate complaint."</p>
<p>
[quote]
Key words being "legitimate complaint."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's right. And if you subscribe to the "morals of the marketplace" theory, then there may very well be no legitimate complaint about college's tuition and financial aid policies.</p>
<p>"In terms of college financial aid, an amount of money that will ensure that the applicant's family will be able to remain in its primary residence and retire reasonably comfortably. Put another way, if the amount of aid would require the applicant's family to sell the family house or gut the family retirement savings in order to pay for college, then the applicant's needs are not being met.</p>
<p>These are your 'wants' not needs.</p>