<p>
[quote]
I'm pretty sure that any way you look at it, $175K is going to be "upper".
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Don't be silly. Even using your mathematical definition of "middle class," there is still flexibility to choose the reference group. Also, it's not set in stone that "middle" means the 40% to 60% quartile.</p>
<p>If I were using a mathematical approach to defining "middle class," I would used a much wider range of percentiles. For me, "upper class" means that you are able to hire live-in help.</p>
<p>But again, it's just a matter of semantics. </p>
<p>And by the way, will you concede that your accusation that I am "unappreciative" was wrong?</p>
<p>And that your claim about the median home price in Bergen County ($250k) was wrong?</p>
<p>lskinner, coming from NJ, I know that you correct about median home prices in your area not being 250,000! 250,000 is so far off the mark! It has to be upward of 500,000.</p>
<p>According to the NJAR site, the median price for a single family existing home in Northern New Jersey was $465k. That includes Warren County, which is really quite remote. In Bergen County, the median price was $545k.</p>
<p>"skinner, coming from NJ, I know that you correct about median home prices in your area not being 250,000! 250,000 is so far off the mark! It has to be upward of 500,000."</p>
<p>"According to the NJAR site, the median price for a single family existing home in Northern New Jersey was $465k. That includes Warren County, which is really quite remote. In Bergen County, the median price was $545k."</p>
<p>so what ????</p>
<p>again copying and pasting other people's sentiments</p>
<p>"Who cares what the median sales price is now? What was it when parents of the college student bought it? How much equity do they have now, both from paying the mortgage and from the good fortune to be living somewhere where the prices are going up rapidly?"</p>
<p>You are sitting on a huge pile of windfall - use it. Stop whinning.</p>
<p>A median is a mid-point but it is not "the middle," as in halfway between two points (as in one of the definitions of middle age). (And, by the way, what life expectancy are you using? Life expectancy at age 1, age 20, age 50, etc.? Each one is different.)</p>
<p>I realize median is different than average or middle
I was using the ages used by sources like UN- I think they are measuring from birth.</p>
<p>$500,000 is also so not a big deal.
In my neighborhood- urban- low income when we moved in- semi industrial and Im talking auto yards and manufacturing not tech places like Adobe and Microsoft- a 994 sq ft 105 year old house- with a 30 yr old roof & wiring- goes for $500,000. Of course if you belong to the transient population who move their cars from one street to the next, you can get away with having less than the median income, but for the rest of us- we get farther into the red every year. So</a> if you want to impress me with how you are having such a tough time with basic expenses- try harder.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Of course if you belong to the transient population who move their cars from one street to the next, you can get away with having less than the median income, but for the rest of us- we get farther into the red every year.
<p>Actually no, I don't think so. Just because somebody complains doesn't mean they are unappreciative.</p>
<p>As I said before, if Bill Gates orders a 100 foot yacht, and the boat builder sends him a 95 foot yacht, he has every right to complain.</p>
<p>Being poor doesn't make you more virtuous or credible. It just means you have less money.</p>
<p>And for what it's worth, my house is 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms on 1/3 of an acre, with approximately 1700 square feet, and was built in 1952. (And there hasn't been any renovation or significant work since the 1970s. Does that give me any street cred?)</p>
<p>I think colleges just use FAFSA EFCs as a screen behind which they can hide.<br>
I see questionably qualified urms from my school getting full rides to a wide variety of colleges, the wealthy ($250,000p.a.) are feeling no pain... but all the parents earning in the "middle" are looking at mammoth loans, severely damaged savings, and/or lives of relative penury. As far as I can tell, the middle classes are the only ones whose life styles are adversely affected by having to pay for college.
I wish all colleges would be more sensitive to the plight of the middle classes, but instead I sense they are simply shrugging off financial aid apps. and using the FAFSA EFC as an excuse. And the irony is often that mc students have to turn down offers at need-based-only schools, and then those same schools take kids from their wait lists who sometimes require a full ride. But if only that aid could have been distributed among mc applicants, then both the mc and the colleges might benefit (respective colleges' yields might be improved).
Sorry for rambling post. The unfairness of this system really gets to me.</p>
<p>A note on housing: 13 years ago I bought a home for 150K in a rural area about 20 miles from the closest town; it is currently worth between 400-500K. I could definitely not afford to buy this house today; the nearest jobs in that close town rarely pay more than 30K a year, so it is not clear to me how those who work locally buy a home in the area. Many seem to commute 200 miles daily roundtrip in order to afford homes in my area.
But my question is, how does home equity work for someone who does not have a mortgage on the house anymore?</p>
<p>*But my question is, how does home equity work for someone who does not have a mortgage on the house anymore?
*</p>
<p>On PROFILE- schools ask for what your house is worth
If you have a house thats say worth $500,000- but your mortgage is $200,000 and you would have to put $50,000 into it before you could sell it for $500,000 then you subtract those amounts leaving you with $250,000 of equity.</p>
<p>If your house is paid off, PROFILE wants what you could get for it- that is your equity.
Unfortunately- some schools don't consider that you can't afford to have more expenses than you do now-
equity and income are considered.
If you have a lot of bills- say for credit cards- that isn't taken into consideration & if you can't afford to take out a 2nd mortgage to access equity, that isn't really considered either.
At least that has been our experience.
However, there have been those who have been able to plead their case- re increased expenses and received adjusted EFC- so some schools are more flexible than others.
So it helps to have schools that are comparable to each other to compare packages
Not apply Early decision
Have schools in mind where student is at the top of the academic pool</p>
<p>( How many people afford homes is take out mortgages- say for 30 years when you are 50, or loans that are interest only- which is where all the foreclosures are coming from I imagine)</p>
<p>LindaCarmichael: If you're lucky enough to have a home that's appreciated that significantly:
(a) You're better off than people, say in North Dakota, whose homes have hardly appreciated at all;
(b) You can re-mortgage your home for college payments;
(c) Upon retirement, you can sell and move to an area that's less expensive.
Anyway you slice it, you're fortunate to have a home that's worth a fair bit.<br>
I just wish colleges, before they asked students to pay hideously inflated fees, actually did factor in the fact that homes in certain areas of the country have hardly appreciated in value.</p>
<p><a href="a">quote</a> You're better off than people, say in North Dakota, whose homes have hardly appreciated at all;
(b) You can re-mortgage your home for college payments;
(c) Upon retirement, you can sell and move to an area that's less expensive.
Anyway you slice it, you're fortunate to have a home that's worth a fair bit.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I question whether this is true, because it seems to me that home equity will make colleges lick their chops.</p>
<p>Here's an illustration: Family X and Family Y are the same -- they each have 3 children spaced two years apart and earn the same income. The only difference is that Family Y's house has appreciated significantly since they purchased it and they now have $200,000 in home equity more than Family X.</p>
<p>Based on the institutional financial aid formula for Greedy U, Family Y is expected to pay approximately $80,000.00 of that extra home equity towards tuition, which will have to be borrowed against the house and paid back 20 years later when the house is sold. Assuming that Family Y pays interest at the rate of approximately 8%, that means that Family Y pays back approximateley $460,000 20 years down the road. (Of course it's possible that Family Y will pay back the money earlier, but if they are able to do that it means that Family X has extra money that can be invested. Will they average an 8% annual return? Maybe not, but if they put their money in the stock market they can probably come pretty close.)</p>
<p>So it seems like Family Y may be worse off for having more options. Is this possible? It sure seems like it. </p>
<p>One of the counter-intuitive results of game theory is that sometimes you are worse off for having more options and better off for having fewer options.</p>
<p>It's actually why I don't buy lottery tickets any more: I realized that if I have $100 million in the bank, I'm actually worse off because my children will become targets for kidnapping and they are worth a lot more than $100 million to me.</p>
