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However, when you read all of your posts, one comes up with an impression that you make 175 k/yr, but still want to be considered same as someone who makes $75k/yr. Which can be interpreted as being unappreciative of how good you have it made.
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<p>Please quote specific posts. Which post says that I make $175k per year? Which posts says that I want to be considered same as someone who makes $75k per year? And why does wanting something make me unappreciative of anything?</p>
<p>Just about every poster here would be happy if they were treated as poorer for purposes of financial aid. Is everyone here "unappreciative"? Or only those people who disagree with you?</p>
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I think momfromme answered that for you by expanding the intent of calmom's definition. You certainly don't want calmom to cut and paste her answer. Do you?
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<p>I want calmom to actually answer the question. I want to know exactly what she meant when she used the word "middle."</p>
<p>lskinner, the link you provided is for current real estate listings, not sales data based on where people actually live -- the "median home price" is a figure that reflects all homes, not just new listings. "Listed" price is often very different than actual sales price, and all people living in a given area do not have to shop for a new home every year; in fact, it is highly unlikely that parents of college-age kids who are applying for financial aid are also first-time home buyers. (Repeat home buyers generally have the net equity from home #1 to apply to the purchase price of home #2, which makes a huge difference in affordability).</p>
<p>In any case, on the realtor site you provided there were more than 100 listings for homes under $300K in Bergen county, and more than 140 in neighboring Passaic county. Your citation to data in the "White Plains - Wayne" is a huge expansion, since it brings in all of Westchester County (median family income: $96K; median home price: $572K). That's a nice little trick, but I'm on to it -- If I were to play that game, then the median home price in my metropolitan division (San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont) is $718K - rather than whatever figure I posted earlier, but now you are just playing with numbers. </p>
<p>In any case: here is what median income people do --> they go house hunting in the areas of their region where home prices are most affordable. So guess what? In any metropolitan area, no matter how you define it, the median earners are all going to be found living in the neighborhoods with the most affordable homes.</p>
<p>calmom wrote: in fact, it is highly unlikely that parents of college-age kids who are applying for financial aid are also first-time home buyers. (Repeat home buyers generally have the net equity from home #1 to apply to the purchase price of home #2, which makes a huge difference in affordability).</p>
<p>Absolutely! And whether or not those homeowners are in their first, second, x home, since they very likely did not buy the house this year, they have also very likely gained equity SIMPLY BY VIRTUE OF LIVING IN THE HOUSE AS THE MEDIAN PRICE ROSE, particularly if they are living in a high property cost area. That is all very nice in terms of gaining household wealth, not nice in terms of paying property taxes, but both wealth and taxes are part of the calculations used in financial aid offices.</p>
<p>Who cares what the median sales price is now? What was it when parents of the college student bought it? How much equity do they have now, both from paying the mortgage and from the good fortune to be living somewhere where the prices are going up rapidly?</p>
<p>"and all people living in a given area do not have to shop for a new home every year; in fact, it is highly unlikely that parents of college-age kids who are applying for financial aid are also first-time home buyers."</p>
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Who cares what the median sales price is now? What was it when parents of the college student bought it? How much equity do they have now, both from paying the mortgage and from the good fortune to be living somewhere where the prices are going up rapidly?
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<p>I've been saying for some time now that my definition of "middle class" depends on family circumstances. </p>
<p>My point in posting housing price information was that having the median income for an area doesn't necessarily make you "middle class." Depending of course on your definition.</p>
<p>If you're not buying a new home, then the price of the home this year is beside the point when discussing how much money one HAS to make to live in a particular area.</p>
<p>If you bought a house at 250K and now it's worth 500K, you have an additional 250K in wealth that you gained simply by living in that house. At the same time, the income you had - which was sufficient to support the mortgage of the 250K house - has probably gone up.</p>
<p>What group do you apply these percentiles apply to in order to determine the range for people in the "middle"? People living in one's town? In one's county? One's state? One's nation? The world?</p>
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If you're not buying a new home, then the price of the home this year is beside the point when discussing how much money one HAS to make to live in a particular area.
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<p>That's true. And if you are buying a new home, the the price of the home this year is relevant.</p>
<p>Thus demonstrating my point that circumstances matter.</p>
<p>Yes, and financial aid formula take account of those circumstances. When you have lots of home equity and you are at a profile school, that leads to different outcomes than if you have less home equity. Got a problem with that?</p>
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Yes, and financial aid formula take account of those circumstances. When you have lots of home equity and you are at a profile school, that leads to different outcomes than if you have less home equity. Got a problem with that
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<p>Maybe I do, and maybe I don't, but you're missing the point. Please go back and read the thread. This whole discussion of median home prices was spawned by somebody asking me to set forth what income ranges I considered to be "middle class." I answered the question with a range of incomes for my area and a caveat that the answer depends also on family circumstances.</p>
<p>calmom essentially insisted that middle class means having the median income for an area, and that "middle class" could have no other definition since "middle means middle" or something like that.</p>
<p>At some point, I observed that a median income family in my area could not afford to purchase the median priced house. And that's basically why we're debating median home prices.</p>
<p>My views on financial aid are discussed more than once in this thread. Kindly read my earlier postings before you ask more questions.</p>
<p>momfromme -- where I live the home equity has risen much faster than the rate of inflation for college tuition. </p>
<p>You are right -- rising home equity=increased wealth. Ten years ago I was pretty much in despair at the seeming impossibility of ever getting out of debt, with at least $500 monthly going out just to pay minimums owed on various credit cards. Around that time I applied for a HELOC and was denied because my debt-to-income ratio was too great. Two years later I qualified for a HELOC, even though debt-to-income ratio was still too high, solely because of the increased equity in the home. (More equity mean the lender was willing to waive the debt-to-income factor).</p>
<p>I used the HELOC to pay off all consumer debt, and originally intended to have the remaining HELOC available for my son's college. I ended up taking a PLUS loan instead, as the interest rates on the PLUS were much less at the time than the HELOC. About 4 years later, with interest rates still falling and my home equity still rising, I refinanced again for a single, fixed rate mortgage. No more HELOC, but no debt other than the PLUS loan (now paid down to about $5K) -- and in a good position to take on whatever is needed to finance daughter through college, either through a PLUS loan or another HELOC. </p>
<p>So definitely -- the equity is something that definitely works to my advantage in terms of financing my kid's education, even though of course it also reduces the amount of aid that I qualify for.</p>
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What group do you apply these percentiles apply to in order to determine the range for people in the "middle"?
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If I'm running a college, I apply it to the demographics of the student body I have and want to attract. Small regional college= demographics of my region. Big national college=demographics of the country.</p>
<p>If I am Congress, writing the law for FAFSA calculations, I apply the demographics nationally. If I am a state legislator, drafting legislation for a program like CalGrant or TAP, then I look to the state demographics.</p>
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If I'm running a college, I apply it to the demographics of the student body I have and want to attract. Small regional college= demographics of my region. Big national college=demographics of the country.</p>
<p>If I am Congress, writing the law for FAFSA calculations, I apply the demographics nationally. If I am a state legislator, drafting legislation for a program like CalGrant or TAP, then I look to the state demographics.
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<p>Fine, so that "middle" and "middle class" can be looked at different ways for different purposes. In other words, there is not One True Definition. Which was my point all along regarding "middle class."</p>
