mixed news

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
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<p>I think all of you give adcoms far more credit than they deserve. While at Dartmouth's student weekend, I actually met a few of the bunch, and needless to say, felt they left quite a lot more to be desired. Indeed, had I said Rachmaninoff to one of them, they would have probably thought I sneezed, and said Gesundheit. I got accepted to Dartmouth by the way, but I'm sure it wasn't because of my heavy classical music involvement or ec's, as Dartmouth, Amherst, Williams, and a couple of others accept the highest stats kids without regards to extra-curriculars. For there is no way adcoms could appreciate the kind of effort, hours, talent, and so forth that serious classical music making requires. If anything, they view it as an aristocratic indulgence from the past, showing how priveledged you are, and subtract points. Unfortunately, most of the Juilliard pre College kids I know with excellent academics got denied from the very elite, whereas a far greater proportion of well wishers doing stupid ec's to get into college got accepted. </p>

<p>I must also defend Andi's son from the unwanted criticism he's been subject to. For I actually know Andi's son, having attended a music camp with him in Vermont (you should know which one) and found out about his story from an acquaintance. I'm sorry, but nationally recognized musicians with 1550s aren't running around the street in the tens of thousands. There are only 4-5000 students who score 1550 or higher in a given year, and far fewer with his musical accomplishments. Additionally, I remember Andi's son as a nice, wonderful kid, with excellent marks, and could see no other flaws or issues to prompt such rejection. If all you parents are using this Andi son bashing opportunity as a way to pat yourselves on the back, thinking man, my kids are geniuses, I'm a genius, because we got into all these schools, then just stop. I don't mean to sound rude, but out of the kids in my area who got into the top schools, I know a few truly talented ones, quite a few mediocre people with hooks, and quite a few mediocre people without hooks! These applicants are not as strong as you make them out to be, and the vast majority certainly aren't as strong as Andi's son! You try to justify his rejections, tossing around reasons, but in my opinion, they cannot be justified for any good reason.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
For there is no way adcoms could appreciate the kind of effort, hours, talent, and so forth that serious classical music making requires.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is precisely why Swarthmore requires a performance tape for applicants wishing to have music considered on their applications. They can then rely on the music department, which does have the expertise, to champion the applicant appropriately. </p>

<p>It's really no different than athletics. It would be a mistake to assume that the admissions office knows the difference between a pro-set offense and the wishbone. But, the coaches do and they can serve as the "expert evaluation" of athletes in the admissions process.</p>

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<p>luckystar41 - you have got to understand. There has been minimal unwarranted criticism of Andi's son. Remember, we don't even know him:). We are just offering hypotheses in case there were any shred of cause that Andison could address as he tries to get off the waiting lists. Mostly what we've given here have been best wishes and crossed fingers. And I'm glad you know him and confirm what all the other data indicates about what a great kid he is.</p>

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<p>agree that there hasn't been much criticism at all. i think we're all interested because andi's s represents the lottery factor in the admissions game. I do have faith in the "system" though, and think he will be plucked off of a wait list any day now.</p>

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<p>Luckystar 41: I am not surprised at all at your description of Andi's son, because I think we all have figured out that both he and his mom deserve our admiration. I'm not sure which posts you perceive as critical...
As for the schools you list as ingnoring everything but academic stats, I know that's not true, --for example, one student in my son's class with very good but not top grades who's an accomplished violist, got into Amherst. And I am curious as to which school you will be attending, since you sound so disparaging of all the ones you mention.</p>

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<p>luckystar41 You are so kind and wonderful to come to the defense of "andison" as he's called here. I know that there was a connection made between a boy at our hs and someone at camp while both were looking at the same college. I haven't tried to figure out who you are, but I know you have come to his defense because you care about him. </p>

<p>It's true that he has not come under much criticism here; in fact he's gotten a lot of support. BUT I also TOTALLY agree with what you're saying. In order to reach a certain level of excellence in classical music many many many hours of practice are involved. It would be next to impossible to carry the load of honors courses that andison took and put in the practice hours he did and ALSO do community service or the other types of PC activities. He also filled out his applications all by himself without regard to what the flavor of the day was with admissions officers or some sort of applications 'strategy.' He didn't know whether to send in a tape or not but he didn't know that not doing so would make or break his application. His accomplishments should have spoken for themselves. And I think it's also probably true what you say about the current perception by admissions officers about classical music, which is so ironic because that is NOT our family at all. </p>

<p>luckystar41 the posters on the Swat site mean well and they're all in support of your friend from camp. Most of them have pm'd me and I know they care.</p>

<p>He's hanging in there- working on some Debussy right now- keep playing the music- it will transcend all of this!!!!!</p>

<p>andi</p>

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<p>I'm glad to hear this board has been supportive, and am sorry if I made any falsely placed accusations towards anyone. I simply wanted to make it clear that the fault was not Andison's, but the system's, and it is the system that should be blamed.</p>

<p>Someone asked which college I'm attending, and why I criticized Dartmouth, Amherst, and Williams. I'm attending Dartmouth, and I wasn't criticizing the three, but lauding them for their focus on academics. Karl Furstenberg, Dartmouth's admissions director, himself told me that they accept the academically strongest 3-5% of applicants, as long as they aren't serial murderers, and that is something I truly respect. I never expected to get into college because of classical music, or to have it help me, but I did expect to get judged by my academic merits-and that is what happened at Dartmouth and Amherst, where I was accepted (didn't apply to Williams.) It is regrettable that schools do not look at music as a plus, but if I had to do it again, I would not conduct myself any differently as far as extra-curriculars. Indeed, my instrument is simply too important to me, and getting a waitlist from Harvard, Columbia, Brown, and Swarthmore, and rejections from Yale and Princeton is the price I had to pay I'm afraid. By academics, I was well qualified for any of those institutions, and would fall among the top 10-15% of admitted students by test scores, maybe higher.</p>

<p>In the end, I believe that the admissions process is overhyped, and I'm sure that I, as you all, will laugh at the whole thing down the road. Where your undergrad degree is from, career wise, will matter very little compared to where you go to grad school, and how well you perform in the workplace. Andison should keep this in mind as he goes about things, and that he will be able to get his vengeance eventually. As for intellectual honor, Andison should never doubt himself, and realize that the judgements of 20 something losers working in an admissions office, instead of doing something better with their lives, does not reflect upon who he is. As for my identity, I'll give some clues so that maybe Andison could figure it out. I was at the camp with Andison in 2003, and was known for singing who let the dogs out, and constantly arguing with Zalman. I played in Debussy Trio and the Beethoven Trio. By the way, there is a girl (initials MW) from that session entering Swarthmore next year, so if Andison goes there, he will see a familiar face.</p>

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<p>luckystar41
I've got you and MS ID'd. (still had the list in filing cabinet :) You never know when you'll need important information like this).<br>
You're a wise poster and I'm glad to hear you say you wouldn't have done anything any differently during your hs years, especially if that would have meant one fewer talented musician in the world. </p>

<p>I'll pass your message along to andison. I hope he'll be joining MW at Swat. I suspect she was influenced by the same people from camp- perhaps you too? Those two girls were probably responsible for boosting the applications to Swat this year. Would have been funny if all three of you had ended up there.</p>

<p>Dartmouth is lucky to have you!! And I hope you have a great 4 years there.
andi</p>

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<p>Andi, thanks for your response. I actually decided not to pursue my waitlist status at Swat, as ultimately, I thought Dartmouth would be a better fit. In part, it was the memories of camp, of water rippling by, of mountains towering in the distance, and the calm soothing taste of nature, that led me to consider such a school in the first place. The kind of close knit, wonderful community formed at the camp, and in rural settings such as these, is what later made me fall in love with Dartmouth. </p>

<p>However, I'd very much like to wish you the best of luck. I hope, and know, that all will be right with Andison in the end. Hopefully, he'll get off the Swat waitlist, and then leave these memories behind. No matter what happens, he should go off away from home, to someplace new, for a few days, and see how much more there is to life than these beaurocratic, foolish little institutions, and he'll forget about all this far more quickly than he could imagine. Moosehead Lake is one place I could suggest, as well as other places. The cost can be quite modest.</p>