<p>My S is a good student but not Ivy level. His weighted GPA is around 4.3 with a demanding load and upward trend. His SATs are around 2000 but he is taking again. SAT IIs are all in mid 700s. No sports but good ECs/volunteer work. The only reason we would consider Cornell is that there is a program in the College of Human Ecology for which he is a very good fit. His ECs and interests almost all point in this direction and I think he can talk comfortably and knowledgeably about it and would do well . Do you think it's worth applying?</p>
<p>On another note: how frat boy/rah rah is Cornell?</p>
<p>There’s nothing wrong with applying to reach schools as long as you have matches/safeties on his list that he would be happy to attend. Cornell sounds like it has a program that would be a great fit for him. If everyone who thought they would be rejected didn’t apply over half the incoming classes for Ivies wouldn’t be there. I think it’s worth applying for him.</p>
<p>Fit always matters more, but stats are a component of fit. Some people just don’t have what it takes to excel at Cornell and end up frustrated instead of coming out with a good experience. It’s important for students to be real about their abilities and while I’m sure everyone likes to think they have the potential to handle Cornell, my question is: why hasn’t that potential been reached earlier? Very few people can turn around from having 3.0 in high school and find success at Cornell (without a lot of stress).</p>
<p>That said, no reason why the stats you described should keep him out and seem in range. Essays are hugely important. </p>
<p>Cornell is 30% Greek, so there is a significant fraternity presence on-campus. You can easily participate in Greek life, or avoid it since it’s a big school. I personally wasn’t very fratty, but I definitely encourage everyone to at least give the Greek scene a chance. Not sure what you mean by “rah rah”, but Cornell hockey games are about as lively as it gets.</p>
<p>“stats” are used to determine the likelyhood that the applicant can be academically successful at Cornell. This is for the sake of both the student & Cornell. When their stats reach a threshold that Cornell deems as predictive of academic success, then “fit” becomes important. My D is a Soph in CHE. Her SAT was only 2050 (ACT of 31) & none of her EC"s had anything to do with her intended major or the mission statemnt of the CHE. However, her EC’s exhibited superior leadership & excellence, and her essays & letters of rec. must have been very good.</p>
<p>I think it’s worth your son applying for the following reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li> If he doesn’t apply, he definately won’t get in.</li>
<li> I think that you’ may be selling his academic accomplishments short. Though his grades/sats may be a touch below the average admit for CHE, I think they’re in the ball park. Acceptance is not a sure thing, but it wouldn’t be a shock either.</li>
</ol>
<p>Thank you all for the insights and the glimmer of hope. We had not been considering this level of school and when it occurred to us that there might be a reason to think about it, I got incredibly anxious. Not sure why–we have great safeties in the SUNYs. But he also looks, at first glance, like an ORM from an over-represented area. In any case, your comments made the pit in my stomach go away for a while! Csdad, is your D happy at CHE?</p>
<p>My son applied to Cornell for the School of Hotel Management. It was the first year one could apply to two schools there, so I talked him into also applying for HE. He was immediately rejected by Hotel Management, and we figured that was the end of that.</p>
<p>The big envelope from Cornell almost didn’t get opened and it was not for at least a week or so before it was. We were all dumbfounded. So off to Cornell we went for him to visit. I arranged for him to shadow a student in that school.</p>
<p>I was sitting inthe the Stadler Hotel breathing in that Ivy air–we were going to stay the night. We’d gotten up at 4 AM to get there. At around 10AM, a hand tapped my shoulder. My son. He wanted to go home. He was done. </p>
<p>It was a long drive home. He had a small LAC he wanted to attend. He just didn’t like Cornell. He felt it was too intense, he did not feel at home, he did not get the same wonderful fit feeling he did at the other school. So he turned down in state ivy for an expensive LAC that most people hardly know. But he loved it there. Did well. Was Happy. And if it had turned out that he was not…well, it was HIS choice.</p>
<p>But it did make the pit of my stomach churn and dig into me, I have to say.</p>
<p>Thanks, cpt, for an instructive story. I am so impressed that your son had sufficient sense of self to know it was not the right fit. I hope my S has the same wisdom, whatever the school is. And I hope I have the wisdom to listen to him!</p>
<p>…yes, very. Of course I think a lot of it is the students perspective going in. My D fell in love with Cornell in her Soph. year in HS after attending swim camp there. She knew it was a reach, but got her scores up to a level where she had a chance. She felt very lucky to be admitted to her dream school & thus appreciated the opportunity. Nothing happened during her Freshman year to change her mind. Although it isn’t easy for her (GPA a little over 3.0), she has been very involved in EC’s & still loves it. Will get more into CHE classes this year & start to get a better idea of what she wants to do with her Human Development major.</p>
<p>Cornell is very competitive academically. And a lot of students at Cornell did not get into even more competitive Ivies–meaning, they may have been qualified, but faced long odds. Cornell has (or used to, anyway) a high suicide rate. And many other colleges have schools of human ecology. Also, a vast number of kids change their major after they get to college. </p>
<p>I think your instincts are telling you it is NOT for him. A pit in the stomach is not likely to go away for good.</p>
<p>…this has been discussed for years…from 2010 article on the subject:</p>
<p>The rate of suicide at Cornell is not any greater than at other institutions, in fact being in college is a protective factor, meaning that people of the same age who are not in college have a higher suicide rate.</p>
<p>It is true that the number of deaths at Cornell this year has been higher than normal, but the circumstances have been varied, including long term illness and accidents.</p>
<p>The average number suicides among college students is .7/100,00 per year. So with a campus of 20,000 students, the average would be 1.5 per year, or, as we say, 1-2 per year. And indeed, that is the number of suicides that we have averaged here for the past 10-20 years.</p>
<p>The innacrrate perception that Cornell is a “suicide school” stems from the fact that suicides by students here are sometimes quite visible, fueling the belief that they are more common than they actually are. Furthermore, when non-Cornell community members commit suicide, it is sometimes labeled or mispercieved as a “Cornell suicide.”</p>
<p>I disagree with sally305. Sure, it’s okay to be nervous about the academic intensity of Cornell, but if you’re accepted, it means admissions thinks you can handle it. The question really is if you are the type of person who thrives or buckles when significantly challenged.</p>
<p>As for the suicide rate, I will say being a student a couple years ago really was alarming given the rash of deaths. I know the stats before those instances showed Cornell was below the national average, but I’m not sure how those stats have changed since the cluster a couple years ago. With suicides, keep in mind you are dealing with only a single digit number of students out of many thousands. I realize that’s a heartless way to look at it, but 99.9% of Cornell students are NOT suicidal. Each suicide is a tragedy and when I was a student (I graduated in 2011), suicide was a hot topic and seeing fences erected around campus was depressing. However, there is so much that’s great and fantastic about Cornell, I truly believe everyone can find a way to make Cornell the best 4 years of their life.</p>
<p>“it’s okay to be nervous about the academic intensity of Cornell, but if you’re accepted, it means admissions thinks you can handle it.”</p>
<p>I could not disagree more with this statement. Adcoms, particularly at large, highly selective universities like Cornell, look at THOUSANDS of applications a year. They do not know these kids. “Handling it” is much more than having the academic record and test scores to thrive in such a competitive environment. I learned this with my own son. He had the stats for at least the “lesser” Ivies (I hate that term, but it is a common way to describe the five that are not HYP) but he didn’t want to be in a cutthroat environment. “Fit” for him was everything–for him and for us.</p>
<p>OP, are there other threads on human ecology programs on CC? The only one I am familiar with is at UW-Madison, which might not be an option for you since it is an OOS public. But the program has an excellent reputation.</p>
<p>There is a clear distinction between admissions thinking you can handle the environment and actual ability to handle it. Also, Cornell is NOT a cutthroat environment and VERY FEW will say that it is. Academic intensity and cutthroat are NOT the same. There is also a distinction between positive stress and negative stress. I’ve always found that students that come to Cornell and struggle generally speaking have the “wrong” attitude about stress. The students that do well thrive under a bit of pressure and don’t see the workload as nearly as big a burden. Cornell is definitely not for everyone, but I think that if a student has worked hard and excelled in high school and are then accepted, their own miscalibrated attitude is the only barrier to success, at least in terms of academics.</p>
<p>“I think your instincts are telling you it is NOT for him. A pit in the stomach is not likely to go away for good.”</p>
<p>I also think that is a terrible attitude. I would say I had a pit in my stomach before endeavoring anything meaningful in my life. People need to be challenged and avoiding something because it makes you nervous is the wrong way to approach things. I’m not saying all concerns are invalid, but the mere presence of concerns shouldn’t make one dismissive. I don’t read the OP’s concerns as the instincts telling her Cornell is not for her child, but rather she is exploring an opportunity she didn’t realize was potentially open to them and has legitimate concerns about a top-ranked school. These concerns are valid and I think are common for many prospective students and parents.</p>
<p>“Cornell is NOT a cutthroat environment and VERY FEW will say that it is.”</p>
<p>Again, disagree–but neither of us can win this one. And I don’t really understand this:</p>
<p>“I’ve always found that students that come to Cornell and struggle generally speaking have the “wrong” attitude about stress. The students that do well thrive under a bit of pressure and don’t see the workload as nearly as big a burden. Cornell is definitely not for everyone, but I think that if a student has worked hard and excelled in high school and are then accepted, their own miscalibrated attitude is the only barrier to success, at least in terms of academics.”</p>
<p>What is a “right” attitude about stress? What is a “miscalibrated” attitude? Again, the OP is asking about her child, whose stats I would guess are at the lower range for Cornell. That right there could be a reason for concern and insecurity. I wouldn’t call that an attitude problem, though.</p>
<p>Great post Mikey! As parents, because our D was a little bit of a “reach” stat-wise, we were mildly anxious about her academics at Cornell, but as you & many others have said…if she couldn’t do the work, they wouldn’t have admitted her.</p>
<p>In our situation, we let our kids make the decision where they wanted to go to college. They didn’t pick as I would have, but it is a big deal thing for them to have made this decision instead of us. When things go wrong, it is unfortunately an out if the student did not make the pick. </p>
<p>No reason why you can’t give your opinions, but if your kid wants a school that you think is on the high stress, side, it’s his decision. The same if you have one that wants something more laid back.</p>
<p>@sally305
Cornell’s alleged cutthroat nature is not really a matter of opinion, unless you want to redefine cutthroat to be heavy workload, which people may or may not find stressful. As far as I can tell, I surmise you’re basing your assessment on having researched Cornell for your child. As a recent graduate with a variety of friends in a variety of majors, I can tell you none would describe Cornell as cutthroat. And if my guess about how you got your information about Cornell’s environment is right, then my opinion is in fact superior because it comes from a lot more information.</p>
<p>I didn’t say the concerns were wrong or miscalibrated about the intensity of Cornell. In fact I said they were legitimate. I said students who are accepted to Cornell and end up finding the stress to be too much for them generally have the wrong attitude. By wrong I mean they get down on themselves for not succeeding or don’t seek the proper avenues to improve their academic habits. Often, it’s not even about finding time to study more, but figuring out how to study “smart.” But sometimes students take the stress of a bad grade and focus on their regrets/thinking they’re stupid instead of take the opportunity to learn, move forward, and take steps to improve. </p>
<p>From personal experience, I can tell you especially in my first 2 years, I did struggle in some of my classes. But I’m someone who never let that get me down and I can graduate with extraordinarily few regrets, because I was NOT someone who dwelled on bad grades; but rather I used bad grades to motivate good behaviors, and for that experience, I am forever grateful to Cornell.</p>
<p>As it relates to the OP, her son’s stats are not really on the low end. The GPA seems strong and the test scores are more or less average. SAT I is a bit below but the SAT II’s are about average.</p>
<p>I would not describe Cornell as “cut throat” …the Dean of my D’s college told the parents “when I went to school, on the first day they told us the old, look to your right, look to your left, one of you three won’t be here at the end of 4 years. …we take the attitude that the students are here to help each other, & that if they all aren’t here in 4 year’s it reflects poorly on us” Cornell’s 96% retention rate speaks to students satisfaction. Although not the most difficult to be admitted to, Cornell does have a reputation of being one of the most work intensive Ivies. We’ve always told our kids “pressure makes the diamond…don’t run from it”</p>