I’m not familiar with the facts of that particular case but am happy to look it up if you think it’s important. Regarding hazing, I have a few thoughts. To the extent the state criminalizes hazing that should also be referred to the police for the same reasons as I think rape, assault, and battery cases should.
If we’re just talking about hazing as an academic issue without a criminal component, I have less issue with universities investigating because the stakes are lower. With lower stakes comes more room for universities to act. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t design their tribunals properly.
@alh I have two sons who I’ve had long and ongoing conversations with regarding how to treat women. I also believe strongly that should begin early on. That said, unfortunately may times now the assumption by many people is that these conversations have not occurred because of the horrific actions of a few.
I think the bigger issue is that parents assume that their children would never do such a thing and the reality is that despite our best efforts our children are autonomous and will make their own choices both good and bad. It is certainly helpful to have these conversations, but it doesn’t mean that our sons will always follow our advice.
It is my personal opinion that my whole generation bears the blame for not fixing this before our children had to deal with it. I am willing to take my share of that responsibility. I think we are all in this fight together. fwiw
I think there are also parents that have no idea how aggressive their daughters are. They may very well also be talking to them about appropriate behavior just as parents of males would be doing. It is not really about only the guys. Young women and men have to some degree disassociated sex from relationships and both sexes are binge drinking too much which makes hooking up just all that much easier.
I have never had anyone say that to me. And I would not look kindly on anyone who did. I certainly feel no need to explain or verify my parenting skills relating to my S to anyone. My children’s lives speak volumes about who they are.
And I don’t think you will find much of that sentiment on this forum either. The general consensus seems to be it is a few men that are giving the rest a bad name. My thought is that men can really make a difference in helping address this issue – some are fully on board but others not so much.
@HarvestMoon1 I’m glad that you have never heard these statements. Unfortunately , I’ve heard them loud and clear at accepted students days and on several forums. It is frustrating because the ones that are on board and trying to make a change are often overlooked.
》》 I did think it absolutely my responsibility, as the mother of sons, to teach my sons to be gentlemen, which included teaching them to respect and protect women.《《
That brings up another point. Today, people are strongly encouraged to believe that men and women are equal and capable of anything, regardless of sex. Why then, if women are equal, do we need protection from men?
I’m not bashing gentlemen, I certainly respect men who are and do my best to hang out with guys who treat me well. I can’t comment on a culture I have no experience with (i.e., the frat/party/sports), so I will end here.
“What I do think hurts her is the social media post describing the encounter as “sweet and beautiful.” But that assists in the evaluation of whether an assault actually took place, not what motivated her in filing her complaint with U of Chicago in the first place.”
You’re right that we never really know the motivation. It’s just a theory that fits the facts.
Another thing that makes sexual misconduct/assault charges different from hazing or battery on campus is that someone with a Title IX violation on his record is going to find it harder to continue his education than someone found responsible for almost anything else. I’ve had multiple students who admitted to dealing drugs on campus and got expelled. Those kids have a much easier time transferring than a student found responsible under Title IX, even if the facts underlying the Title IX case were ambiguous and disputed. I think we need to be pretty certain about the facts before ending somebody’s education.
"I’ve told them why dismantling rape culture is so important to me, but they will never truly understand how survivors feel.
I wanted to believe that sharing my experience with them would make them understand. And even more important, that understanding would breed action; but that’s where the disconnect arose. My sons understand, as best as teenage boys can. But they aren’t willing to sacrifice their own comfort for my sake, or for anyone else. When it comes to speaking out against rape culture and questioning their own ideas and behavior, they become angry and defensive. Not all men, they remind me, and my guts wrench as my own sons mimic the vitriol of a thousand online ■■■■■■."
Lots of comments on this one–quite a few who (whether they agree with her premise or not) feel badly for the author’s sons being publicly shamed and called out in this way at the ages of 16 and 18—and wondering if she had their “enthusiastic consent” before writing about them.
Others (including the paper’s parenting columnist) point out that it sounds like these kids have been lectured about this topic on a pretty regular basis and perhaps this isn’t the best way to get the message across. At a certain point, yes, you may be met with eye rolling and sighs if as the son says at the beginning of the article "You say everything is about rape culture or sexism.”
She also certainly has her supporters, who seem split on whether her sons are a lost cause or not.
@bearpanther I have no doubt that there are males out there who have no inclination to do something to decrease the rape culture present in society today. I can assure you that my sons aren’t some of them based on their actions in the past. What I have trouble with is the over generalization that most males are like this. Overgeneralization regarding males is no less offensive than when people generalize that females " ask for it "because of what they are wearing or because they were drinking. I’m not exactly sure why I was tagged with this article other than the fact that I have 2 sons like the author . Believe me that is the only similarity .
No person would want to be compared to her. Her last sentence is particularly telling. So sad she has to abuse and disrespect her very own kids in this public manner because of her own personal demons.
I think it is important to also note that the author of that article repeats at least 3 times that her boys are “good men.” It is also significant to me that she writes that she herself was a victim of rape and sexual abuse. I am going to accept that she is going to look at this issue from a perspective that I might not understand as well as she does.
No, @carolinamom2boys —I tagged you because of what you had mentioned about people making comments to you about “what are you going to tell your sons? teach your sons not to rape!”—here was a woman who was basically doing the same thing to her OWN sons and saying they were part of the larger problem.
I’m sorry if you thought it was somehow an attack or something, it was supposed to be more in support of your experiences being told this yourself.
Personally–I am also a mom of sons. The article made me very uncomfortable to read, both for how her sons might feel about their mom writing about them in this way and because of what I felt were generalizations about the state of young men today.
Her sons are still young and it felt to me like she was giving them up as a lost cause. Maybe she needs a new method of communication to get her message across.
Again, sorry if I did not communicate well with you!