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Are you not aware that there are cities in the midwest? Even really big ones?
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<p>That's not nice.</p>
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Prestige without the real substance (i.e., breadth and depth compared to their peer schools), that's what I call overrated.
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<p>Then a lot of schools are overrated.</p>
<p>"'Prestige without the real substance (i.e., breadth and depth compared to their peer schools), that's what I call overrated.'</p>
<p>Then a lot of schools are overrated."</p>
<p><em>coughcoughBCcoughcough</em></p>
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^You may want to live somewhere other the east coast... even for just short period of time just to open your mind and expand your horizon. I hope this doesn't shock you--Brown isn't really well known in California. I think most people here probably think USC/UCLA are better.
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If they are at all educated/wordly than they would know and recognize Brown. I am not talking about the factory workers drinking beer at a bar, or the local surf instructor, but the guys at Silicon valley, the guys in business in San Francisco. Yes Pizzagirl, I recognize there is wealth in places like St. Louis, that does not mean there is as much opportunities first of all, and second of all i bet they still recognize those schools I mentioned if they are at all successful. I mean honestly are we having a debate about if Brown is more prestigious than Northwestern or WUSTL, how stupid is this. The answer is yes and its not regional when were talking about smart people...</p>
<p>O and on a last note, pizzagirl. A Cornell grad school, who entered into Financial Consulting to make the big bucks probably should not lecture on ethical issues fyi. Thats so 80's...</p>
<p>Of course it's regional even when we're talking about smart people. In many fields WashU and JHU command as much respect as Brown. In others, not so much.</p>
<p>Bescraze, Pizzagirl, you guys may both just want to give this up. Both of you have excellent points. Bescraze is right, if he's looking for a professional, big money job there's no way any employer won't know about his school if it happens to be Brown, WashU, NU, or other schools in that vein. Pizzagirl is right, prestige is regional. But to be honest, that doesn't even matter. One poster said it earlier, the importance of prestige isn't so you can go around wearing your Brown sweatshirt, no, the importance is the connections, networking, career placement, and (non-academic) opportunities they offer you. That being said, I'm sorta sick of the goal bashing of some on this thread. If Bescraze wants to go on Wall Street after earning his prestigious degree, there's no reason to call it "so eighties" and we very well know he can do it given some ridiculous percentage (like 40%) of all Harvard and Yale grads do it. Also, why does it matter Pizzagirl worked on Wall Street? Doesn't make her points any less valid. And lastly, overrated/underrated school on USNWR is hard to measure. Some people don't think school X deserve it's rating while others do. It just has to do with people's preferences. I'd rather take a Cornell over a Yale or a Berkeley over a Chicago any day. It seems to me most people would not do either. It doesn't make Cornell>Yale even though in my mind it does. To reinforce this, measuring the worth of a school is always subjective, even when using objective, statistical figures! That's not to say that there sometimes aren't clear choices, but when schools are really close in quality it becomes "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". It's like saying I'm going to decide which girl better looking using a statistical equation. Sure most of us can agree Pamela Anderson is hot, but could I argue that she's hotter than Estella Warren, using an equation? I don't think so...we each look for different things, what matters is I find her hotter lol! So yeah, I sort of went on a tangent, but I'd like to end this post with, can't we all be peaceful and respectful of each others preferences?</p>
<p>haha that was a good post...</p>
<p>Bescraze, I have said this several times and I don't think you have caught it, but I am NOT a Cornell grad. I have never been to Ithaca, NY in my life. I don't know where you got that from. I am a Northwestern grad (both undergrad and then went to Kellogg in the evening program while working). I do not do financial consulting, I don't work in finance at all, never have, and I have never worked on Wall Street. I worked for a major company whose name you would know, and then I left to join a small consulting firm -- but not financial consulting, just consulting in my area of specialty. I know you'd want to not perpetuate any misconceptions about me.</p>
<p>"If they are at all educated/wordly than they would know and recognize Brown. I am not talking about the factory workers drinking beer at a bar, or the local surf instructor, but the guys at Silicon valley, the guys in business in San Francisco."</p>
<p>It depends on the business. There are plenty of businesses where either the school doesn't matter, or there is little benefit in going to an Ivy over the state flagship. That is not to say that there is not inherent worth in going to the Ivy or the top 20 school, but its utility is different for different businesses / endeavors.</p>
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<p>School A is more prestigious in the East Coast. School B is more prestigious in the Midwest. Which school is more prestigious nationally? LOL.
Whichever school more people across the nation think better.</p>
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<p>Could not agree more with both of you here.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl is right on the money concerning my older brother's Ivy to real-world transition. My brother realized some time in college that he wanted to go into a certain field, and then realized that <em>most</em> of the entry-level jobs in this field hired directly from pre-professional programs in state schools. The companies he applied to scoffed at his degree (even though by the time he graduated, he was also able to take courses directly relevant to the field he wanted to pursue...)</p>
<p>Anyway, my brother had a rough time finding a job, but when he did, it was at a company that understood that his degree indicated that he was pretty exceptional.</p>
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<p>Yes, it's hard to measure. The point of this thread was to get REASONS why people think certain schools are overrated or underrated, to debate the merits of the USNWR rankings, and to debate the merits of particular schools. I think it has mostly succeeded on that front. </p>
<p>To say that ranking schools is completely subjective is to miss the point. Joe might really love football and want to go to U Florida, and have no interest in Harvard. Does that mean UF is a better school than Harvard? Of course not. Just because UF is a better school FOR HIM does not make it a better school overall.</p>
<p>Some people might think a school is overrated while some think it's underrated. That's fine. But I would rather leave it to the reader to assess the facts presented and come to his own conclusion. I would rather not say "oh everyone's right we're all friends here kumbaya" and I'm really sick of this value-everyone's-opinion-even-if-wrong political correctness namby-pamby mumbo-jumbo stifling debate to save feelings.</p>
<p>If one guy honestly feels like Boston College is better than Yale he's entitled to that opinion. But that doesn't make him correct, nor does it mean we shouldn't compare the schools because there are people on both sides of the debate.</p>
<p>Yes, but you missed this</p>
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That's not to say that there sometimes aren't clear choices, but when schools are really close in quality it becomes "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder".
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<p>UF and Harvard aren't close in quality. Brown, WashU, NU, they are all close in quality.</p>
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"Close" is not the same as "equivalent."</p>
<p>Then that's where we disagree. When colleges are that close in quality, the metrics (and at which weight) to measure them become a lot more subjective. It's like saying Harvard is better than Princeton. If you value a strong professional school you'll weight that if you value a very undergraduate focused university then you'll weight that more. I think for all intents and purpose they are "equivalent" just like Brown, WashU, and NU.</p>
<p>We can all agree that for HYPS, they are to close to compare. Brown, Wash U and NU are not. Just like Columbia and Emory are not or Penn and Rice. I agree with gradatgrad that sometimes political correctness takes over this board and causes people to make the false (in the real world) statement that all of the top 25 schools outside of HYPS are created equal. This is not the case, and it differs depending on your career path, obviously, but not all these schools provide equal academic, social, and career opportunities.</p>
<p>The premise that the top 25 universities offer an education that's too close to compare --- and too close to angst over --- has been kicking around for several years now. </p>
<p>Here's Greg Easterbrook in the Atlantic Monthly --- a publication that is plenty 'real world' --- back in 2004. This was an issue addressed when HYP had admission rates in the high teens, not single digits. </p>
<p>Who</a> Needs Harvard?</p>
<p>On another thread, we heard from a poster, evilrobot, who chose to attend Vanderbilt on a generous scholarship rather than accept admission to Yale and leave college in debt. Four years, a great education featuring a double major and internship opportunities, he is working now at a dream job for Google. Was his education at Vandy not comparable to what he might have received at Yale? Does it matter? Could the outcome have been any better? </p>
<p>My neighbor's D turned down Cornell for WashU, majored in the UG business program and got several internships in the L.A. area. After graduation, she took a job with a consulting firm that serves some major players in the entertainment/recording industry here. Were her educational opportunities and outcomes not comparable to a Brown or Cornell or NU alum who got their dream job in Chicago or New York? </p>
<p>Obviously, for some intended majors, some universities have superior programs. But when making general statements of educational quality, outside the stratospheric level of HYPSM, the top universities are too close in quality to quibble about whether #8 is better than #12 or #12 is better than #17.</p>
<p>Jazzymom, very excellent post. Btw, my best friend is going to WashU and he loves it already-except the sticker price lol. I don't understand why people bash it.</p>
<p>I would pick Wash U over Cornell too, but just because one person got a great job out of vanderbilt does not mean its education or the career opportunities in general that it provides are the same as yale.</p>
<p>I just want to say:</p>
<p>Pizzgirl kicks butt.</p>
<p>When someone says University of X is overrated or underrated, how the hell do they know??</p>
<p>One under-discussed idea is whether or not it is worthwhile in the long run to pay the extra money for a private college if barely anybody has heard of it. In other words, nobody doubts that going to Harvard or Notre Dame or Stanford or Cal Tech is worth the extra money. But is it worth it to pay for the education alone, and not any fame... I mean there's probably little doubt that St. Johns College in Annapolis and Santa Fe graduate people a LOT smarter than they were when they enrolled. But is it worth the extra money to get just the brainpower, no alma mater fame attached? Wouldn't a person who went to U of Kansas or U of Connecticut, or UNLV, U of Colorado, or Washington State U. be at least as far ahead getting an inferior education but having 99% of the people know a little about the schools? This would be particularly true with colleges that have a geographic name. Even though University of Memphis might be inferior to, say, Baylor U. in the classroom, would the extra money paid to go to [private] Baylor really be worth it, especially given that people can kind of guess where U of Memphis is but have no idea what or where Baylor is.</p>