<p>Thanks, res :). I will absolutely concede that most of the time, a student should choose U of M over MSU. I have never denied that you will generally get a great education at U of M, if it is the correct fit for the individual person. People ask me all the time why I chose MSU over U of M and I am happy to share why (my personal pros and cons for each school), in hopes that they will go to the correct school for them. I have good friends and family at both U of M and MSU (yes, it makes for interesting family reunions :p) and I don’t judge people for choosing one over the other. I WILL try to open your eyes to see past the stereotypes of MSU, but I will completely support whatever a person chooses. Unfortunately, I am often judged for choosing MSU over U of M, the assumptions being that I’m lazy or a party person. I am neither. This is why I take offense when someone calls a person “ignorant” for choosing MSU over U of M.</p>
<p>MSU was absolutely the right decision for me. It has given me an opportunity to work with immigrant and refugee children in an all-ESL school, allowed me the opportunity to intern at the Refugee Development Center (one of the founders is a professor I’m close to), given me an incredible study abroad experience (which I probably wouldn’t have done had it not been originally required by my major), and opened my eyes to the field of bioethics- due to having a professor/adviser in the RCAH who realized that it might be something I have a passion in (from interesting conversations that stemmed from him driving me to the hospital while I was down in Costa Rica lol). I am now involved heavily in the undergraduate bioethics program at MSU, something I don’t <em>believe</em> U of M offers (do they have an undergraduate bioethics program?), among many other benefits. I do not regret my decision in the least. And personally, for me, for my life goals, and for my passions, MSU has been a better environment for me.</p>
<p>romanigypsyeyes, in my cousin’s case, the decision was a good one. His parents were perfectly content with his decision as they felt the academic fit was better. At MSU, he was definitely accepted into the major of choice whereas at Michigan, he would have had to struggle for two years to get into his chosen major, and even then there was no guarantee. </p>
<p>Going to MSU was not easy since he grew up a Michigan fan. Until this day, he still roots for Michigan unless they are playing MSU, in which case, he reluctantly roots for MSU! ;)</p>
<p>romanigypsyeyes, in your case (and in that of my cousin), MSU was indeed the better choice. But how many students go to college to work with immigrant and refugee children or to major in Business or agriculture or hotel management? The majority of college students major in a traditional dicipline. </p>
<p>I have said it several times above, there are two perfectly legitimate reasons to choose MSU over Michigan, the first being financial and the second being academic offerings. </p>
<p>My objection is to the notion that there is an element of non-academic fit to consider. I do not think that such a criteria can be used when considering Michigan and MSU because the two school have too much in common. It is that concept of fit that I cannot agree with.</p>
<p>Well she still would be able to do research in it which is obviously available without actually having an undergrad bioethics program (pretty useless major?).</p>
<p>What makes you conclude that it is a pretty useless major? If U-M hospital has a program in it, then the field of study must have some meat to it. With the evolution of medical science, these issues will be of increasing importance as they touch the bounds of health, science, religion, philosophy and politics. There is a major interdisciplinary aspect to it that will develop skills that could translate to a number of opportunities to someone who is industrious.</p>
<p>Well I should rephrase, it’s a VERY specific major that probably wouldn’t have a lot of value after just a BS. I’m sure it’s great for people who are very sure about what they want to do and are applying to grad school, but it’s not really a stand alone major imo.</p>
<p>Also I’m literally the only humanities student enrolled in the minor, every one is a social science or science major. It’s a field that’s protected to grow very quickly. I plan on going into some kind of medical law. Law wasn’t even on my radar before being introduced to this field.</p>
<p>What gets me about this thread are the generalizations that so many people seem to have made. I worked my butt off all four years of high school. I was confident that my gpa, weighted with 10 AP classes, and my unique ECs would get me into U of M. However, as my username indicates, I was not accepted. Having invested so much time in building up a resume that I believed would allow me to attend UM, this was a crushing blow. Although I’m ranked up with the best in my class, my test scores are not spectacular. My 28 ACT is, I believe, what blew my chances of being accepted. So when people on this thread claim MSU students are “lazy” or “just partiers,” it hurts. I’ve never had one drink in my life and I can assure you that I’m anything but lazy, especially when it comes to academics. I have worked harder than so many people who go to UMich. This is not to say that they don’t work hard or don’t deserve to go there, because they definitely do. All I mean is that school comes easy to some people, and to others, like me, it does not. It sucks to know that your absolute best isn’t good enough. That although you want something so bad, a math section on your ACT is enough to keep you from that. And there’s nothing you can do about it. I hope that eventually I will come to care about MSU as much as I did about Michigan. I just want all of you who are making these ignorant generalizations to know that there are students like me who really don’t appreciate being carelessly labeled.</p>
<p>MSU - sounds like you have great traits and you undoubtly will keep working hard and when you do, you’ll be successful; regardless of attending MSU or UM. But, heck, if you still feel this way toward UM in a year, reapply. </p>
<p>Now, you’ve experienced rejection, may not be your first time and it won’t be the last. It also won’t be the last for anyone who did get into their #1 choice school. But, you are lucky to have that trait of working hard — this will take you a long way.</p>
<p>Notwithstanding all of the foregoing (because I do agree that fit is person/situation-specific and that MSU is a terrific REGIONAL research university) as a non-native Michigander I do find it rather unbelievable how many in-state residents will utter MSU and UMich in the same breath as options as if they were somehow comparable or in league when in fact they are academically in different tiers.</p>
<p>From the outside looking in, that’s like saying “Yeah, I might go to Harvard or BoCo depending on fit.” Many in-staters generally don’t actually show any appreciable evidence of fully comprehending that distinction.</p>
<p>Yeah, its kinda like how in state the MSU vs Michigan game is huge. But as a Michigan fan in Ohio, and most other places, it isn’t as big of a deal and OSU is much more important. (Not that it isn’t important in state)</p>
<p>You mean a rivalry that involves two states, and therefore far more people, is a bigger deal than one that splits a state and only matters to one state? Whodathunkit?</p>
<p>Alexandre, please don’t compare the difference between MSU and Michigan to Boston College and Harvard. Harvard is, arguably, the best university IN THE WORLD with less than a 7% acceptance rate. Boston College, is not. Michigan admitted 49.878% of applicants to the class of 2014(admission data isn’t available to this year yet). Almost no one turns down Harvard. I, on the other hand, probably would have. I visited Harvard a couple of times, sat in on many lectures in different department, and I even had some discussions with a few of the mathematics professors. I didn’t really like the area, and I wasn’t impressed. I chose not to even apply(even though I was told by a couple faculty that I should) because I knew that I would not be happy if I went there. My happiness is important to me because I know that I would do worse in school if I was not happy. I am now going to be attending UC Berkeley in the fall, which I see as a perfect fit. The decision not to apply was quite easy for me though, because Berkeley has a higher ranked math department and they are doing the research that I am interested. To me this was a good decision. So fit really does matter and “fit” doesn’t just mean the location and building type. There was a huge difference between the way that Harvard is and what I want in a university. Having just got back from orientation, I know that I will absolutely love my next 4 years there. Fit matters.</p>
<p>mjmay, in your chosen field, Cal and Harvard are tied at #2, so I don’t agree with you when you say that Cal has a higher ranked department.</p>
<p>This said, like you, I also dislike the atompshere at Harvard and would probably choose a handful of universities over it, including Michigan. We are not alone. Harvard’s yield rate is 75%. That is extremely high naturally, but many still choose to turn down Harvard. I also agree that fit matters. I chose Michigan over 9 other universities, including 4 Ivy League schools, Cal, Chicago and Duke for reasons of fit. But those universities are all academic peers of Michigan and are drastically different than Michigan culturally, so I was not sacrificing quality and fit was a legitimate factor, just as fit is a significant factor when comparing Cal to Harvard, while academic quality is roughly the same between those two academic elites. </p>
<p>I would not resort to quoting acceptance rates to prove your point. Acceptance rates and academic excellence are not always correlated. Michigan’s acceptance rate does not alter the fact that it is one of the top universities in the US. Columbia’s acceptance rate is 6%, while Cal’s is 23% and Michigan’s is 50%. Until five years ago, Chicago’s acceptance rate was typically in the 40% range. All of those universities are extremely respected, regardless of their acceptance rates. However, if you are the type of person who judges a university by its acceptance rate, Michigan should rise significantly in your esteem over the next 5 years.</p>
<p>Finally, I stand by my initial comparison of Harvard V BC to Michigan V MSU. You seem to overrate MSU and underrate Michigan. I am assuming you were raised in a Spartan household. Harvard is indeed arguably the best university in the world, although schools such as Cambridge, MIT, Oxford, Princeton, Stanford and Yale can all make such a claim just as legitimately. But Michigan is one of only 15-20 universities globably that immediately follows that first group of universities. I know it may be hard for you to realize that, but Michigan is that good. If you look at any academic rating of those four universities (Harvard, Michigan, BC and MSU), you would see how there is a significant gap between the former two and the latter two. Generally speaking, Harvard is rated among the top 5 universities in the nation by most respected academics while Michigan is ranked in the group immediately proceeding those five. The gap between Harvard and Michigan is clear, but it is not significant. Similarly, Boston College is a notch below Michigan while MSU is a notch between BC. Look at any academic rating from Fiske to the USNWR “Undergraduate Academic Reputation” rating and you will see what I mean.</p>
<p>While I did grow up close to MSU, I was not raised in the typical “Spartan” household because both my parents grew up outside of michigan. I didn’t even apply to MSU. I did apply to Michigan. </p>
<p>On the acceptance rates, I was just trying to show that you can’t use the best university in the world to show the comparison between two state universities. A comparison between Cal and san diego or irvine is more accurate i believe. </p>
<p>Also, i do not underrate michigan in terms of academics. that is evident by the fact that my final decision was between Cal and Michigan. I just didn’t really click with michigan like i did with cal. so fit was essential to picking my home for the next 4 years.</p>
<p>“On the acceptance rates, I was just trying to show that you can’t use the best university in the world to show the comparison between two state universities. A comparison between Cal and san diego or irvine is more accurate i believe.”</p>
<p>If that’s the case, then the gap between Michigan and MSU is about the same as UVA and Virginia Tech.
Michigan is truly a world class university that gets applicants from all over the country and the world. MSU is okay but I doubt anybody from Georgia let alone China is thinking about MSU like that.
On that note, with a UMich degree one can get a job in NYC, LA, or anywhere in the country without too much trouble. With a MSU degree, you might be restricted to the state of Michigan or the mid-west.</p>