<p>Sorry, but I actually am. The closest thing to an in between schools is Villanova, Miami (FL), and maybe Bowdoin. I just don’t want to go to Michigan. I don’t see the problem.</p>
<p>What do you mean when you say “The closest thing to an in between schools…”?</p>
<p>And why don’t you want to go to Michigan?</p>
<p>At any rate, Villanova and Miami are good but not great (no better than MSU and certainly nowhere nearly as good as Michigan). Bowdoin is awesome (on par with Michigan in terms of quality), but completely different. If you are interested in schools such as Bowdoin, you should be looking into schools such as Amherst, Carleton, Grinnell, Haverford, Kenyon, Pomona, Wesleyan etc…</p>
<p>Partially a family a thing, partially the campus. Bowdoin has been the only small LAC that I have liked. I mostly liked medium to large research universities.</p>
<p>“I mostly liked medium to large research universities.”</p>
<p>Which means it’s mostly a family thing.</p>
<p>
Few people will “consider” Villanova or Miami to be above Michigan and MSU. It must be a family thing.</p>
<p>tcwest, your point of view is one I find common among children growing up in Spartan households and is very difficult for rational “outsiders” to understand. If your family has issues with your wanting to get a better education at a superior university in order to improve your mind and future, there is a problem. Parents should want what is best for their children. If my kid were choosing between Michigan and Stanford, I would not hesitate to urge him strongly to go to Stanford because it is clearly superior to Michigan…and the gap between Stanford and Michigan is actually smaller than the gap between Michigan and MSU. </p>
<p>That is not to say that there never is a good reason to choose MSU over Michigan. Romangypsyeyes has pointed our her own personal reasons for choosing MSU that are perfectly rational and legitimate. My own cousin (whose parents are both employees of the University of Michigan) also chose MSU over Michigan for perfectly legitimate reasons. Anybody who intends on majoring in Agriculture/vet studies or Hotel Management would be better served by going to MSU. If one wishes to major in Education in order to become a secondary school teacher, going to MSU over Michigan is perfectly fine. Two years ago, family friend chose MSU over Chicago and Michigan because she wanted to major in Nuclear Physics and was offered special access to top faculty and research and an accelerrated track to a PhD in the field in which MSU is ranked #1 in the US. Finally, to some students considering the two schools, there can be a large difference in the cost of attendance because MSU will sometimes give large merit scholarships to in-state students who are good enough to get into Michigan.</p>
<p>But all of those exceptions listed above only apply to a small percentage of the population. I doubt any of those points applies to you.</p>
<p>As for the campus argument, it does not hold water. The extent of the difference is mostly in your head. Yes, there are differences. Michigan’s campus has a slightly more urban feel and the students on campus tend to be more focused in their studies. This gives the impression that MSU students are friendlier, but Michigan is welcoming and fun. By and large, the two campuses have much in common. At Michigan, 60% of the students come from Michigan and another 15% from other midwestern states. At MSU, 80% come from Michigan and another 10% from other midwestern states. Michigan has 26,000 undergraduate students and MSU has 36,000 undergraduate students. Both are public universities. Both are members of the Big 10 conference. And last I checked, Michigan’s campus was clean, safe, easy on the eyes and accessible, populated by world-class facilities, a faculty that is second to none and highly driven students.</p>
<p>^^^^Yes, but there is no couch burning in Ann Arbor.</p>
<p>Physical campus, I don’t like urban campuses, at all. Yes, it is mostly a family thing, but I am allowed to pick where I want to go. My family doesn’t tell me, or urge me even, to go anywhere or do anything. I was actually planning on attending Michigan up until the end of my sophomore year. I plan on doing HC and JMC at MSU, and I feel like I will be getting a great education and enjoy all 4 years of it. Can someone explain to me exactly what I won’t learn or be exposed to at state?</p>
<p>You’d just get a better one at Umich, if you can get in.</p>
<p>To Alexandre’s point, I personally know a number of people who chose Michigan over Stanford - one of them just finished her Mat Sci degree and will be heading to Palo Alto for grad school, another’s doing his combined MD / PhD at Yale - fully paid - other’s on a PhD track at Caltech.</p>
<p>HurdSL, I knew several students who chose Michigan over HYPSM too back in my day. A couple did so because they felt Michigan was a better fit (fit plays a deciding factor in this case, unlike the Michigan vs MSU case where fit is moot), but most did so for financial reasons. I also knew several who got into MIT and Stanford as transfers but were so happy at Michigan that they decided to just stay put. Michigan is generally regarded as one of the top 20 (top 10 in Engineering) universities in the US, so the tradeoff is not that big of a deal. </p>
<p>This said, HYPSM are significantly better than any other university in the nation, and those who get into one of those schools will generally choose to enroll over any other non-HYPSM school.</p>
<p>tcwest, I am not sure an honors college can match the resources of an entire university. I hear good things of the JMC, but can it match Michigan? In some ways, such as personalized attention and advising, I am sure it probably edges Michigan (honors and RC not included). However, will you have the same resources, quality of faculty and depth, breadth and wealth of curriculum? What do you plan on doing after you graduate? For some reason, MSU does not seem to place many students into top graduate schools as Michigan. In fact, Michigan alums outnumber MSU by 10:1 at top Law schools and top Medical schools if you leave out Michigan Law and Medical. If you include Michigan Law and Medical, Michigan alums outnumber MSU alums 14:1. Considering the fact that MSU is 30% larger than Michigan, the numbers are significant and should be considered. That may be because far fewer students at MSU are qualified or inclined to go to top graduate schools, or it could be because graduate schools do not assign the same value to a MSU undergraduate degree as they do to a Michigan undergraduate degree. My guess is that it is a combination of the two.</p>
<p>Either way, you should be careful when making the decision. </p>
<p>On a side note, although Michigan’s campus is more “urban” than MSU’s, Ann Arbor is not exactly NYC, and 100% of university buildings are on campus. Michigan is not like NYU or BU or GWU, where you have buildings mixed in with city buildings. The campus is well defined.</p>
<p>When you say HYPSM, the M is Michigan right? </p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>Harvard Yale Princeton Stanford MIT^</p>
<p>
Tcwest, I’ve no idea what you’re studying, but from a financial perspective your post does not make sense.</p>
<p>If you have the credentials to access the pool of elite schools <em>considered above both</em> then NOT applying to UMich is kind of insane from a fiscal safety standpoint. Granted, MSU would be your “safety” (and Mich would not, since these days it’s a safety for NO ONE) but the average tuition at each school that could possible be considered <em>above</em> UMich would be in the order of triple or quadruple your in-state cost at UMich. </p>
<p>Any school considered <em>above</em> Mich (eg HYPSM) does not usually give merit aid since one in 10 highly qualified applicants get in in the first place; though some meet need. So if you’re from a high need family, you’d still want to apply to UMich for the rigor and the fact that your need would be met in-state just as well as it would be met at the full need schools.</p>
<p>And if you’re from a “no-need” family that would be ineligible for aid, why on earth would you have your folks spend $200 k plus on a slightly <em>better</em> school than Umich unless that decision were driven by some outstanding rationale??? Something better than “I don’t like an urban campus.” Just curious.</p>
<p>If an LAC is more your thing and you have money to burn, then groovy. That said, a kid loving an LAC is not typically MSU material (Kzoo or Albion maybe…) in Michigan, although many kids who love LACs find themselves quite happy at UMich’s RC (residential college – interdisciplinary, small seminars onsite, etc.)</p>
<p>There’s just something not quite adding up in your depictions, but maybe it’s just my price-paying sensitivity since I’m a parent. </p>
<p>The last consideration I am going to add is that you likely want to spend some time auditing classes if you can at MSU and other schools. One consideration a lot of students forget is the value of your PEERS in terms of your own intellectual development and FUTURE NETWORKING capacity. So a tippy top student will likely be most stimulated in an environment with other tippy top but diverse students – because there’s a synergy when you work together, have class discussions together, etc.</p>
<p>So leave all preconceived notions aside and perform this experiment – sit in on a few classes and talk to the students in the class and get a sense of FIT before you omit applying to the best ‘rigorous bargain’ education available to you in your own state!</p>
<p>And then if you still prefer MSU, go for it and don’t look back!</p>
<p>Btw based on post history, tcwest has a 3.7 uw and 27 on the ACT. So unless that’s improved, Michigan’s probably not an option anyways.</p>
<p>Currently true, I retook in June, and am feeling better about that. If not, I’ll be studying all summer for it. Still weird you looked into it. haha To answer several questions, I will be applying as a need qualifying student at all my schools, I do have a network at MSU, and I don’t know what I am studying post-grad.</p>
<p>If you don’t even know your post grad plans, that’s even more of a reason to apply to Umich. Even if you know some professors at MSU, unless if it’s like Nucluer Physics or another department that MSU is tops in, you should look into Umich. Almost all departments are in the top 10, and undergrads have awesome access to professors for research opportunities.</p>
<p>Currently it’s between education, law, or a post grad degree in history, IR or poli sci.</p>
<p>I know that MSU has a great education program, but Umich’s history and poli sci departments are among the best around. Plus Umich has great law school placement.</p>