<p>hey i know from experience when michigan says that it meets 100% of need they just give you unsubsidized loans, not gift aid. its kinda sad that it is cheaper by about $7,000 per year to attend berkeley, even with the oos fee.</p>
<p>Michigan does not claim to meet out of state need at all, but you are correct that as a CSS school, meeting need in state often involves loans for all but the poorest financial circumstances 
The only way cal, especially with recent hike to OOS tuition, can beat umich for an in state student on price would be generous grant.</p>
<p>For the op, if need means pell eligible, msu is the safer financial bet insofar as for zero efc they will turn loans into grants.</p>
<p>"Why does it seem that a lot of very bright students choose MSU over UMICH? I know several people that got 31+ ACTs and chose MSU over Michigan. Could it be that Michigan’s “we know people will go here because we’re a good school” attitude is finally catching up with them, while MSU attracts students with their “we want you to go here” attitude? "</p>
<p>That’s not odd. I am a Michigan man true and blue, but even I can understand why some people don’t want to go to U-M. There are a lot of smart students who don’t end up going to selective schools. Many of them just don’t care about college rankings. It is a FACT, that Harvard is ranked number 1 in the nation by the US News ([National</a> University Rankings | Top National Universities | US News Best Colleges](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities]National”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities)). However, declaring that Harvard is the best university in the nation is an OPINION, NOT A FACT. Additionally, they take into into account money and personal preference. Furthermore, don’t say “fit” cannot be a factor because both schools are too similar. No two schools are exactly the same. The small differences can add up. </p>
<p>Also Alexandre, if I were offered a full ride to Michigan and a full ride to HYPSM, I would choose Michigan over HYPSM.</p>
<p>777, I would definitely choose Michigan over all of its peers (non-HYP Ivies, Cal, CMU, Chicago, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, UVa etc). In fact, I did choose Michigan over 8 of its peers and would do so again gladly. I would also definitely choose Michigan over Yale (I hate New Haven) and most likely over Harvard (the atmosphere is way too intense for my taste). </p>
<p>I really do like MIT, Princeton and Stanford though.</p>
<p>That’s great! Way to represent the Maize and Blue.</p>
<p>You can’t knock the guy.</p>
<p>I applied to Stanford and if I got in (apparently I needed those subject tests… I remember getting rejected and then a day later getting a letter to try to join the honors college.) But if I git into both, it would have been tough and o think. Umich would win because I’ve been a fan my whole life, not for any real reasons. </p>
<p>I Nvr planned on applying to MIT, but they sent me a little book in the mail and I remember pulling it out in study hall a few times so people would think I was really smart haha</p>
<p>I’m not knocking the guy, I read his post about Standford. I think they are all great schools. I’m glad he went to Michigan.</p>
<p>College is all about fit. I have two college age children, both got into Mich, ND, MSU, etc… I sent the first one to MSU Honors College and the second one to UM (starting this fall). UM can be intense and if you get too worked up about school UM might not be the right place for you. Find the college that is the best fit for you and let the chips fall where they may. PS if we lose to MSU again this year in football I will be a very unhappy alum! GO BLUE GO HOKE!!!</p>
<p>It’s easy to claim that you would turn down a Harvard, Princeton, Caltech or Dartmouth for Michigan unless you are fortunate enough to be in the position to make that sort of decision. Putting the issue of prestige aside, Alexandre must come from a wealthy family because its unheard of to turn down Penn, Columbia and Duke to go to Michigan out of state for middle class families because of the large difference in the generosity of FA packages.</p>
<p>There is no difference in prestige between Michigan and Caltech or Dartmouth, although those three universities are completely difference from one another. I personally chose Michigan over several or its private peers, including Columbia, Cornell and Penn, because of fit. Cost of attendance at all those universites was the same for me (I am international) and prestige was not really a factor since Michigan is as prestigious as they come. In fact, Michigan proved to be slightly cheaper than the other schools (by roughly $5,000 annually). </p>
<p>As far as I was concered, I just wanted to be in a well-rounded school and Michigan is, by some margin, the most well rounded university in the US. I would have chosen MIT, Princeton and Stanford over Michigan because they are more prestigious and better academically, but in my opinion, beyond those three, there isn’t a single university worth going to over Michigan. Of course, Harvard and Yale fall in the same category as MIT, Princeton and Stanford, and to the VAST majority of students would definitely be a superior choice to Michigan. </p>
<p>Beyond those five universities, where Michigan is concerned, prestige ought not play a role in the decision-making process. Only ignorant people who rely entirely on the USNWR ranking would think a school like Brown, Chicago, Cornell, Duke or Northwestern is more prestigious than Michigan. Graduate school admissions committees and corporate recruiters at major companies do not differentiate between Michigan and any top 20 private university. Among the intellectual elite, Michigan is generally regarded second-to-none. </p>
<p>When choosing among the universities I had been admitted into, I found Columbia to be too serious and dominated by graduate students (they outnumber undergrads by a 3:1 ratio). I also did not like how the campus was so densely populated and I definitely did not like the surrounding areas. The same went for Chicago and Penn. Cornell was too isolated, Cal was too “Californian” (90% of undergrads were residents back in my day) and too weird and Duke just did not feel right. Brown and Northwestern were both compelling enough, but I thought Michigan had more to offer and I preferred Ann Arbor more than Evanston or Providence.</p>
<p>“Only ignorant people who rely entirely on the USNWR ranking would think a school like Brown, Chicago, Cornell, Duke or Northwestern is more prestigious than Michigan.”</p>
<p>Well stated Alexandre! They would also classify Michigan graduates with a BS or BA degrees, “A dime a dozen.”</p>
<p>Now I didn’t read all 19 pages of this thread, but to address the original question, people with ACTs in the 30s may choose MSU over U of M because of the honors college. You can basically do whatever you want, academically at least, in the MSU HC…no pre recs, no real required classes, you can take grad classes at undergrad tuition…opportunity for research positions, paid even if you have over a 33 on the ACT… lots of perks. Also there are a lot of scholarships available for HC kids and also MSU has the best study abroad programs in the country and a lot of times students can participate in them for next to nothing because apparently, there are tons of fin-aid stuff for it if you look or ask around. </p>
<p>Also, I saw someone say that East Lansing isn’t a super nice college town, I live there and I really beg to differ. There is so much to do, and the reason that maybe the campus is nicer than the city is because there are way more people on campus than in the city. BUT the whole city seems to be geared towards students, I really don’t know what they were talking about. I am never bored here or in want of anything…</p>
<p>That’s a nice response Alexandre and it sounds like you made a good decision based on personal fit. I disagree about your analysis of the prestige of American universities however. What makes Stanford superior to Columbia for instance? Columbia’s faculty is second to none in the world (affiliation with Nobel Laureates I believe is the highest out of any school) and its undergraduate Arts & Sciences division is the 2nd most selective in the world after Harvard College. Besides endowment per capita, I fail to see why any school other than Harvard should be considered “better” than Columbia.</p>
<p>Also I’m curious, beyond those 5 schools you mentioned, what schools are in the next tier in your estimation? Sorry to deviate from the original purpose of this thread but I don’t think there’s any point to discussing that anymore.</p>
<p>Before you answer this pompous ■■■■■ Alexandre, please read the latest comment he just made about Michigan engineering:</p>
<p>“rjkofnovi, I’m glad that you’re proud of the Michigan’s Engineering program’s faculty superiority over the nontraditional programs like Columbia and Duke. However, don’t forget that Columbia and Duke engineers are MIT-level smart and would make Michigan engineers look like a bunch of unaccomplished simpletons in comparison. Its the student that matters at the end and that makes a university great, not the faculty.”</p>
<p>It’s quite pathetic that this person actually believes his own drivel. I certainly hope other teenagers who read his ridiculous comments are more intelligent than he pretends to be.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, this is the best part. Perhaps vengasso should’ve taken a class on logic.</p>
<p>Screw Duke and Columbia engineers. I could take 'em</p>
<p>Bring 'em on…</p>
<p>MIT smart? I laughed at this. I guess Michigan’s average 3.9 GPA and 32 ACT for the College of Engineering doesn’t suffice.</p>
<p>Sent from my iPhone using CC</p>
<p>Columbia, Duke or Penn are inferior to Michigan when it comes to Engineering. Michigan engineers are far more in demand at the top companies than Columbia or Duke Engineers. It is not even close. Companies like Cisco or Boeing or Google recruit much more heavily at Michigan than Columbia or Duke. If one is premed or prelaw, or if one wishes to major in a traditional field, Columbia and Duke are on par with Michigan. However, in Engineering, Michigan is clearly superior. Michigan’s peers in Engineering at Carnegie Mellon, Cornell, Georgia Tech and UIUC. Northwestern and Princeton are also in the same league.</p>
<p>
So what does that prove?</p>
<p>John Chambers earned his BA/BS in business from West Virginia (1971), a JD from West Virginia (1974), and an MBA from Indiana (1975). And he did study engineering at Duke for one year (1967-68).</p>
<p>Robert Stevens earned a bachelor degree from Slippery Rock University, a master’s in management and engineering from the Polytechnic University of New York, and an MBA from Columbia</p>
<p>Rick Wagoner earned a B.S. in Economics from Duke, and an MBA from Harvard</p>
<p>Louis Gerstner earned a B.S. in Engineering from Dartmouth, and an MBA from Harvard</p>
<p>James McNerney earned a B.A. in American Studies from Yale, and an MBA from Harvard</p>
<p>It is safe to say that none of these gentlemen got to where they are because of their engineering degree. In fact, three of them never studied engineering! Louis Gerstner is the only one with a BS degree in engineering from an elite school, but he sure didn’t move up the corporate ladder as an engineer. His career path came through American Express -> McKinsey -> Carlyle -> RJR Nabisco -> IBM. These gentlemen (except for Chambers) all shared one thing in common – they all got an MBA from Harvard/Columbia.</p>
<p>So how does this prove anything about the engineering programs at Columbia, Duke, Dartmouth or Yale?</p>
<p>“At any rate, it seems very unlikely that Michigan places more engineers in Google and Cisco than Columbia and Duke on an absolute level and nearly impossible that it does so on a per capita basis since Google is a top employer for both of these elite private school”</p>
<p>Alexandre, can you post the facts about Michigan’s represention in the nations top professional schools. You are just stating opinions because you actually believe that a public university like Michigan can’t compete with top privates when in actuality it can. Google and Cisco recruit heavily at Michigan. Larry Page is an alumnus after all who majored in computer engineering, whereas the garbage you wrote about alumni affiliation with Columbia and Duke have nothing to do with engineering.</p>
<p>Many Michigan graduates go to law school at the University of Michigan, which is a T14 Law School. Many Michigan graduates go to the University of Michigan graduate schools which are most likely in the top 10. So again, you are wrong and get your facts straight.</p>