<p>vociferous. I totally disagree with diontechristmas. Your observations are quite accurate imo. Not sure how a Temple student would know much about the Big Ten, but I have a feeling it has to do with your assessment of PSU-UP. How do you feel about the rest of the Big Ten schools vociferous?</p>
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<p>Believe it or not, some of us DO travel or know people at other schools. And as much as I despise PSU, it’s a great school.</p>
<p>PSU is a great school. In fact all the Big 10 schools are great schools. It just happens to be on the lower end of the “Big 10” academically. That does not mean it is a bad school. </p>
<p>As for the rest of the Big 10 schools (I will answer this in the "academic big 10 or CIC context) U of Chicago, Northwestern, Indiana, Ohio State, Iowa and include UIC.</p>
<p>U of Chicago and Northwestern-obviously speak for themselves and I would put them 1-2 but Michigan is right there IMO. That said, Chicago is on par with HYPS IMO. I would put their faculty and students up against any in the country.</p>
<p>Northwestern, is a great place although sometimes it seems to suffer a bit of an identity crisis. Does it want to be a big sport big 10 school or does it want to be U of Chicago haha. I say this a bit tongue in cheek, but there is some truth to it. The students are great, but a bit elitist. Frat culture is a bit much but not as obnoxious as UIUC. Obviously a great university though.</p>
<p>Indiana is another great place and I would place it just below UIUC. I just think UIUC is stronger in more areas, but Indiana has a very strong faculty and top notch in particular areas.</p>
<p>Ohio State is right there with Indiana, Columbus is a great city and its a tough call with Indiana, but OVERALL I think Indiana’s faculty is a bit stronger, although arguably OSU’s students are a bit stronger. </p>
<p>Iowa is another underrated place, and admittedly the only place I have not visited. I know from friends that they like their students, many of whom who work hard. I also know that many went with their own stereotypes, but found people ranging from crazy frat boys and sorority girls to hippies who could not quite afford Grinnell and lots in between. From what I gather, Iowa is pretty solid overall.</p>
<p>Since we are talking academics, I will include IMO another underrated place. The University of Illinois-Chicago. This is a place, given the great faculty they attract due to location, that if you work hard and do well can take you ANYWHERE for grad or professional school If you go there and kick butt, sky is truly the limit. The campus may not be as beautiful as the other Big 10 schools, but it is a place that can serve a student very well.</p>
<p>Coolbreeze, the reasons you list for liking MSU are all valid…and Michigan pretty much meets all of them. Let us evaluate them one by one shall we (I will speak mostly of Michigan because I am not as familiar with Minnesota, PSU and Wisconsin:</p>
<p>“MSU has a larger student body” </p>
<p>Yes it does by a small margin… Michigan isn’t exactly a LAC you know!
UNDERGRADS:
MSU: 36,000
Michigan: 26,000</p>
<p>GRADS:
MSU 10,000
Michigan: 15,000</p>
<p>TOTAL STUDENTS:
MSU: 44,000
Michigan: 41,000</p>
<p>“MSU has a atmosphere of study hard, yet still have fun”</p>
<p>Once a university has over 5,000 undergrads, chances are, you are going to have that sort of mix. The “workd hard and play hard” attitude exists on most university campuses, including all of the schools you are considering. MSU does not really have an edge here.</p>
<p>“MSU has a larger and much better campus, all connected”</p>
<p>MSU’s campus is larger and it is all connected, but it is not better. Michigan’s campus is better in some ways and in other ways, MSU’s campus is better. Overall, they both have nice campuses, but neither of them has a great campus.</p>
<p>“MSU top in study abroad”</p>
<p>Study abroad programs are great, and Michigan has a great deal of them. Unfortunately, what people don’t realize is that they are, for the most part, hard to manage becauseof other academic commitments. I am not sure that MSU has better study-abroad programs than Michigan. </p>
<p>“MSU residential colleges”</p>
<p>With close to 30,000 arts and sciences majors and very limited resources, I would hope that MSU would create some residential colleges just to stay competitive. Michigan has 16,000 arts and sciences majors, and far more resources at its disposal. Residential colleges are not really required. Still, Michigan does have a residential college and it is excellent.</p>
<p>“MSU school spirit”</p>
<p>MSU does have school spirit. So does Michigan (and PSU and Wisconsin for that matter). Of those schools, none of them have a monopoly in that domain.</p>
<p>“East Lansing ( though Ann Arbor is a top college town)”</p>
<p>East Lansing is ok…Ann Arbor is better.</p>
<p>“MSU student ( not all ofcourse) doesn’t make academics a competition”</p>
<p>Premeds are competitive everywhere. Michigan students are actually not competitive in other majors. In fact, they usually like to help each other out.</p>
<p>Those are all valid criteria, but in none of them does MSU have a decided advantage. In fact, in does not habve an advantage in any of them.</p>
<p>Academically, however, Michigan does have a serious advantage over MSU. And although not all students admitted into both will chose Michigan, the majority will…and those that don’t have a specific reason for doing so. You have not provided such a motive yet.</p>
<p>vociferous, finally someone who agrees with me on the B10 and on University of Illinois-Chicago. I think UIC has amazing potential to be a great urban school with solid to great academics, not just in the hard sciences. The only thing that may draw kids away, if UIC ever fulfills that potential, are the lack of sports and school spirit.</p>
<p>Interesting replies, looking for more.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t like to talk bad on University of Michigan- Ann Arbor nor Michigan State University since both are my top 1 & 2 choice universities. Though most students I know as well, claim either they decided to attend Michigan State University over University of Michigan- Ann Arbor or wish they done so. I’ve also always been told at University of Michigan- Ann Arbor everything is a competition, mainly speaking of academics.
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Attending Michigan State University as a undergraduate shouldn’t harm my chances with a graduate school out of state ( already know that University of Michigan- Ann Arbor is high respected out of state)?</p>
<p>UIUC is like UCSD, a bit ignored compared to the two public universities more known for their academics in the conference.</p>
<p>As for PSU, it’s one of the better state universities (just a notch below UIUC).</p>
<p>Only on this forum would people bicker so much about something like this. They’re all good schools. Michigan is the best, each has their stellar programs though.
Nowhere in the “real world” would anybody say “LOL you graduated from ___, that’s totally not elite therefore it must be a crap school, NO JOB FOR YOU”. (plenty of the top scholars in any given field will have gone to an undergrad school that nobody on this forum will have ever heard of, including the professors at the colleges you guys try so hard to get into)</p>
<p>Okay, I got two friends, one that went to U-Mich, and one that went to MSU.</p>
<p>The one that went to MSU had a perfect 4.0 H.S record, not sure about test scores, and many extracurrics. He got into U-Mich, but liked MSU better because of the study-abroad opportunities the school provides, honors, etc. and he happily spent a year immersed in German culture.</p>
<p>The other friend, however, didn’t have such a sterling record (3.5 GPA, 27 ACT), but did get admitted into Ross. He was in-state and devoted much of his time to Cross-Country and Track, which he excelled at. He won’t participate in college, however.</p>
<p>So, it’s truly a personal choice. Get a feel for both, not just a quick drive-by in the car, and make sure you are well-informed about each choice. </p>
<p>However, I would still not pick MSU due to your close proximity to it. College is about leaving the nest and creating your own path in life, cutting many of the string holding you closer to your parents and friends, and experimenting with what’s out there (what’s legal, anyway). Being 10 minutes from your current life will never all you to truly leave the nest and grow up.</p>
<p>In a way being 10 minutes from my house have many con’s, but some pro’s. Though it’s not like I plan to attend my graduate in the same city, and in many cases same state. I think there may be growing up to experience in graduate years as well, which I plan to experience in a large city ( excluding Detroit 100%). Then again, University of Michigan- Ann Arbor distance from home is not too far, nor too close ( about an hour). Which may help promote college experience more? One of my issues with University of Michigan- Ann Arbor, when thinking of attending there… hard to imagen myself having fun due to the competitiveness, student body stereotype, and probably overload in academics.</p>
<p>I visited Penn State, during their minority recriuitment weekend over the summer, & I must say are very persuasive. Prior to my visit, I had absolutely no interest in PSU, but after I arrived I completely fell in love with the school. They did an excellent job of selling their school. I took a tour of the Smeal(their business school) which is very nice. Overall the campus is beautiful, other than the fact that it’s in the middle of no where :)</p>
<p>I agree with vociferous for the most part, but I’ll offer my own brief assessment.</p>
<p>The best: Northwestern</p>
<p>Tier one: UMich, UW-Madison</p>
<p>Tier two: UMN, UIUC, OSU</p>
<p>Tier three: MSU, Indiana, Purdue, PSU, Iowa</p>
<p>They are all great public schools, and several of them are great universities overall. I, too, believe that the Big Ten is grossly underrated. I’m most likely headed to the University of Minnesota, so I’m happy to join this high quality group of schools.</p>
<p>I’m not too familiar with any of the schools besides the U of MN and Madison, but I’ve heard there all amazing schools. Wisconsin is just like UMich but a little less prestigous but with a nicer campus. That’s where I plan on going!</p>
<p>I don’t know why UIUC is so underrated in these forums. UIUC has 22 Nobel prize faculty and alumni winners, and 20 Pulitzer prize winners. AT9, UIUC is definitely tier one in your post.</p>
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<p>No one outside of elitists on College Confidential cares about that stuff.</p>
<p>AT9, I would bump Michigan up a notch, I would bump UIUC up one notch, I would bump Indiana and PSU up one notch and I would drop OSU one notch. .</p>
<p>I don’t really have any comment on Northwestern, I know enough to know that I don’t want to go there, but that’s about it.</p>
<p>Here’s another vote to UMich being the best public listed.</p>
<p>The thing with Wisconsin and Illinois is that while they are about on par with each other, an Illinoisan will claim Illinois is better, someone from Wisconsin will claim Wisconsin is better.</p>
<p>So, as an Illinoisan, I’ll give Illinois the nod :).</p>
<p>these are just my opinions/impressions of the schools:</p>
<p>Michigan State University: One of the worst state schools in the country. A party school with joke academics. </p>
<p>University of Michigan- Ann Arbor: Awesome school… by far, the best on this list. </p>
<p>University of Wisconsin- Madison: Not really sure. I saw it ranked as one of the best “academic” party schools, so I guess they have that going for them.</p>
<p>Pennsylvania State University- University Park: They have some strong programs, and their Honors Program actually has a lot of serious Ivy-league level students. But at the end of the day, most of their students are just there to party and go to huge football games. </p>
<p>University of Minnesota- Twin Cities: No idea whatsoever.</p>
<p>Purdue University: Good engineering school. </p>
<p>University of Illinios- Champaign: VERY, VERY good engineering school. I would know because I was considering it heavily.</p>
<p>I also believe that the University of Wisconsin may be the most underrated school in the country when it comes to academics. </p>
<p>And I do agree with most of vociferous’ other comments as well, although I also see Michigan as a better school for academics versus Michigan State–but both are quite good–and the Big 10 overall is definitely underrated as a conference for its academics. To me the Pac-10 (with schools like Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, USC, and Washington) and the Big 10 (along with the Ivy league, of course) are the strongest academic conferences. The SEC and Big 12 and Atlantic Coast Conferences have their good academic schools (North Carolina, Duke, Wake Forest, Texas, Colorado, and Florida), but I’m not sure the strength is as good across the board.</p>
<p>^Calcruzer, USNWR ranks MSU as #71 for undergrad. You can’t even compare it to UM. Michigan State is a great research school, but their undergraduate education is second-tier at best. </p>
<p>And you are selling the ACC well short there. Duke, UVA, North Carolina, Wake Forest, Boston College, and Georgia Tech are ALL ranked in the top 35. There’s just no conference outside of the Ivy League that good academically.</p>