MT without finishing High School?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>Having lurked for a while, I thought I would pose the question we have been pondering....my D attends a Performing Arts High School where she is a vocal major. She will be a Junior next month. She wants to major in MT. She has always been very bright (3.91 GPA) and has taken college level work successfully. She cannot skip a year in her school due to the artistic requirements for a diploma. IF she were in a traditional high school, she could take 2 English courses and meet the state requirements. She has taken her SATS (scored very high) and so the academic challenges are few. </p>

<p>Now to the question- does anyone know which schools accept early admission students or have an early admission program? She would like to audition this winter if possible to try to get in and is perfectly willing to skip senior year BUT only to do MT. I have been unable to locate any firm information on this topic and am really wondering how strongly we can pursue this.</p>

<p>Thanks for any help!</p>

2

<p>I don't have the answer to your question regarding early admission. However, my D just graduated high school a year early (a DIFFERENT thing, as you know) and is entering a BFA program for MT. What we did for THAT situation was when she begged us to let her graduate early (this discussion was had midway through her tenth grade year....basically a half year before she would have to embark on the college admissions process), we did not want to jeopardize her chances to be admitted if the programs she was interested in would not accept early graduates. So, at that juncture, I called every program on her list....admissions folks....not even mentioning her name....simply inquired from someone in the know at each school, what their policy was for admitting early graduates (she was gonna graduate after 11th grade). Every school said it was fine as long as she had her diploma. Some said they had admitted students like that in the past. Once all said fine, we proceeded. My D did include an extra statement with all her applications explaining her decision and rationale for graduating early and her readiness, and her Guidance Counselor addressed this issue as well. Word is that usually early graduates (or early admissions candidates like your D) are scrutinized even closer than a regular applicant. So, be aware of that. It kinda reminds me of when my D ALSO did an early admissions to K (which by the way, makes her graduating two years early in essence due to early entrance into school plus early graduation), because with early entrance into K, it had to be proven that she was not merely READY to enter with the group ahead of her but she had to be tested and observed to be at the top range of the group ahead of her. This was not that different. </p>

<p>I'm happy to say that my D's admissions outcome into BFA MT programs was a positive one. I share that to let you know that it seems that it was not taken against her to be an early graduate. In fact, she won merit scholarships at each program. She was selected as a Tisch University Scholar (one of 15 in all of Tisch, not just theater) so apparently being an early graduate did not hurt her. But it is important to know this information before making a decision to embark on this process.</p>

<p>I realize that situation is NOT the same as early admissions without a diploma and so there are fewer schools that do that but some do. My reason for sharing our story is to demonstrate that the best way to answer this question is to call the admissions office to every program on your D's list and ask about the policy and anything related to that. When doing that myself, I did not share anything about my specific child, simply the issue at hand in and of itself. </p>

<p>So, do call and ask each school directly, before your child goes forward with applications or auditions. Good luck. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

3

<p>Hi Mikksmom! </p>

<p>Has your daughter checked out Oklahoma City University? Our first scholarship audition date is November 18th in Oklahoma City (all auditions take place at the school). Students who audition at this date will be notified by December if they have been accepted into the school of music. These students will also find out what scholarships they have been awarded. And..as you know...the earlier you audition, the better your chance at scholarships! </p>

<p>For information on Oklahoma City University's audition requirments and dates, just click here:<a href="http://www.okcu.edu/music/audition_info.asp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.okcu.edu/music/audition_info.asp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you have any questions about OCU, please feel free to send me an email! Thanks!</p>

4

<p>I think a girl from here went to Point Park without having finished HS, similar to your proposed possibility. I heard that she chose Point Park because of this and because many other schools didn't allow it. She is now in her upper 20s, so this would have been many years ago. You'll need to double check on whether this is accurate information.</p>

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<p>For some reason, I thought that U of Arts in Philly had something along those lines, too. Check it out.</p>

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<p>I would encourage her to be patient and do her senior year and get that diploma. These programs are so highly competitive why take the risk of creating something that might be a detriment to her? Is there any program in your area where she can do a theatre "internship" for a semester or so while still enrolled in school?</p>

<p>I have a girlfriend who graduated a year early, loaded up on classes and summer school for the state required classes. She did the audition circuit for MT this year and did not get into any MT programs but did get into Wagner where she plans to audition again in the future. I cannot say though that the early grad had any part in that outcome.</p>

<p>PS
Boston Conservatory does not require a diploma</p>

7

<p>I second the thought of waiting a year. I was a young graduate from high school, started college at Boston University at age 16 as a music major. I was home within a year attending community college. There are so many changes a person that age is going through, and adding the pressure of starting school and a competative program can be too much.
Maybe she could conurrently attend a community college to complete her high school courses and spend some time with older kids. I know they have a program like that in many communities. And you can get some college credit for the classes too. That would perhaps satisfy her need to get out of high school, give her some more free time for acting, dance and vocal classes as well as give her exposure to older kids too.</p>

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<p>Thanks to all who replied. I understand the idea of waiting due to the competitiveness of programs for MT. I am completely confident of her ability to handle both academics and the social aspects of college. Another year of working on her voice would be great but a good MT college program would help there as well. </p>

<p>I guess what I am wondering at this point now is if the feeling is that auditioning this year would hurt rather than help? She felt as if it would give her a better sense of what auditions might be like and if she didnt get in - well, no harm done as she can just complete her senior year as normal - but WOW if she did.. that would be great! </p>

<p>COmments? Feedback?</p>

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<p>You asked if it would hurt rather than help if she auditions this year. I still believe that part of that question lies in first finding out which schools are willing to accept a student for early enrollment (as opposed to an early graduate) with no diploma. My guess is that fewer do that than take an early graduate (as my child was). So, let's just say that only a handful of schools will take an early admissions candidate without a diploma. So, if that is the case, do you want to limit her options of schools? Does the list of schools that will accept a student following junior year without a diploma even include her favored programs? I would not do it if it jeopardized her OPTIONS. </p>

<p>That said, I go back to my original post where I informed you that a student who is going to college after three years of high school will be scrutinized more than the typical candidate. It goes with this territory. In that regard, you seem confident that your D is ready academically, socially, and artistically, and emotionally and if so, she is an appropriate candidate. My D is entering college after her third year of high school (but with a diploma) as I mentioned but I know she was ready socially, emotionally, academically and artistically and was able to articulate that as did others who wrote on her behalf. At first, when one of her favorite schools turned her down before she heard from the others, she even questioned if she had hurt herself by not having an additional year of training cause she was younger than everyone and she wondered for a moment if this had hurt her. But that came to pass because she was admitted to five BFA programs, waitlisted at one, admitted to one school without the BFA and denied fully at just one. The outcome was positive and it appears that having one less year under her belt in terms of artistic growth did not seem to hurt her. She felt very strongly about graduating early which was completely her idea (I was not looking for her to do this as I did not want her leaving home a year earlier plus she was already a year ahead in school due to early entrance into K). But her reasons were justifiable in every area of development. Others who hear she graduated early and know her say they are not surprised in her case. </p>

<p>Only you know your child. It seems as if she is an appropriate early admit but what you must do is to call and inquire at every school if they take early admits (not early graduates) and if very few do, I'm not sure I would limit her chances to that degree by having very few schools to audition at as it is so competitive. Also, no matter IF they do take early admits, you must realize they are surely scrutinized more than typical applicants. Colleges want to feel confident that the student is ready academically, socially, and emotionally. As far as artistically, your D has to think about if she has gone as far as she thinks she can locally in her training and achievements (this was an issue for my D) and if she would benefit from going to the next step in her training or keeping the status quo. Your D needs to decide if she has exhausted the academic and artistic opportunities locally. Many factors play a part in making this decision on your end and then many factors will be weighed by the college admissions folks but ONLY if their policy in the first place takes early admits/enrollment (or in my D's case, early graduates). If your D goes this route, I think it is important that she includes a suppemental statement that addresses her rationale for early enrollment...her academic, social, and artisitic readiness, as well as has her guidance counselor speak to these. I think it is ESSENTIAL that a student not only be academically ready but SOCIALLY ready. The social development was a big piece for my child. I would not do this if it was merely an academic issue because there are other ways to accomodate an advanced/accelerated learner. </p>

<p>By the way, if you are applying for federal financial aid, your child must have a high school diploma or earn a GED. As I told you, my D won academic and/or talent scholarships at each school so it did not hurt her to be an early graduate in this regard. So, schools did NOT look down on this but I am sure they looked more closely to ascertain if she was an appropriate candidate. But again, we went into it KNOWING that the schools were willing to accept early graduates. I do not know which schools will do early enrollment. That is what you need to find out.</p>

<p>The analogy I gave you in an earlier post is still one that I think applies. I mentioned to you that when my child was evaluated for an early entrance into K, the criteria was NOT merely that she was ready along with the group older than herself. She had to be at the TOP of the group a year ahead of her. So, for early enrollment or for admitting an early graduate, a school IS going to examine the student to not just ascertain if they are ready but to feel that it is compelling. They will look closely. But if you feel your child fits the description of someone who has exhausted the high school curriculum, is socially developed beyond her age and mixes with older students and is a leader in an older age group, is independent and ready to be on her own, and has fully explored all the artistic training at the highest levels available locally, has accomplished the highest artisitc awards locally but at a younger age and so forth...in other words, is truly ready to be in the group above her and regularly is grouped with older kids academically, socially, and artistically both at school, in her training programs, and amongst peers socially, then start calling admissions to find out the policy. If they do not accept kids for early enrollment without a diploma and she has no means to earn a diploma after 11th grade, then think twice about going further. </p>

<p>I understand those that caution about a kid going off to college under 18. As a generality, I completely agree. But I do think all kids are very different and so it is hard to paint a broad brush on this issue. Many kids who are academically ready, are not socially ready. But some are. Some have functioned in an older peer group right along. It is a very individual thing. In your case, I would also get opinions from teachers in school, guidance, and her artistic teachers about her being ready to embark on college in a year. Some kids truly are. Some want to but are not. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>plus, personally as a rising senior, i would take this extra year and keep training and working on stuff so that your audition material is completely solid...i wish i had more time to do that...and i know this sounds clice about time crunching...but it will catch up</p>

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<p>Mikksmom, Susan has given you excellent advice here. Her wonderful daughter was the exception in many ways, in this process. Her great success should in no way be taken as the norm. :) She did complete h/s and has a diploma. Susan's advice to first look at the programs which your D is interested in is perfect. At what stage is your D in this process? Has she researched schools? Have you visited and learned about the various programs? If she hasn't even really begun her investigation yet, I think you're starting very late in addition to having the element of no h/s diploma. For most kids I know who are currently in BFA programs, they would be at the stage now of fine-tuning their audition material, monologues and songs, for this fall's auditions. As others have said, admissions in this field is so very selective, I wouldn't advise 'entering the fray' at this late date for the coming year. If, however, she has, in fact, done her research, visited, and narrowed down her list to schools she'd love to attend, then that's a different story, I suppose. </p>

<p>I can't give you a definitive answer on all of the commonly discussed schools here but I can tell you that New York state law requires that before students enroll in any institution of higher learning, they must have on record, a high school diploma or GED. That would rule out many programs, and it may also be the case in other states. This is the type of question you should direct to the schools she's interested in. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Thanks, AlwaysAMom. I want to reiterate that less colleges and universities will take students as early admits or early enrollment, as opposed to early GRADUATES (my D being the latter). That is why it is crucial before you do another thing to ask each and every school their policy on early enrollment. </p>

<p>AlwaysAMom brings up another excellent point about where you are in the process. We don't know from your post. But if you are just starting out now, it is very late for someone embarking on a BFA admissions process. I even thought my D starting with the college process in January of tenth grade (equivalent to the point in 11th grade for everyone else) was later than I would have ideally wanted. We did not start sooner than that because, well, um, she was in TENTH grade and I thought we'd be doing this in junior year like I had done with my older D. During younger D's tenth grade year, we were immersed in older D's senior year and HER college admisisons. But when younger D came to us with her rationale and points about wanting to graduate early, it was at the midpoint of her tenth grade year. Once we went along with her, she began the college research immediately. For me, ideally I like using junior year (in her case tenth grade) to visit all the schools. We did not get to do that so that meant seeing some in fall of junior year (her equivalent to senior year) and seeing the rest at auditions. But otherwise, she did everything any junior would need to do by the end of tenth grade. That means ALL her SAT sittings and SAT2 sittings were done by June of tenth grade. As soon as eleventh grade started, her college list was completely researched and solid and she was doing applications, essays, getting recs and preparing audition materials. That is the point you are at chronologically now but I don't know the extent of your research about programs, if you have obtained applications, done visits or just what. At the least, that should be done now so that in a few weeks or even now, applications could be started and audition materials searched for and worked on this fall. If it were me, I would not let my D embark on ANY of this until I had a firm handle from every school on her list if they were willing to take kids for early enrollment (please specify to them that this means no diploma). Again, if only a couple say yes, you have already limited her options. Since BFA programs are so competitive, I can't imagine not having at least six to audition for. I think in order to do this, every single piece needs to fall in place, or otherwise you are starting out with some notches against the process, which by its nature is difficult enough when you HAVE all the pieces. </p>

<p>I assume from your first post that your high school does not have an early graduation policy. Ours does. A few kids did it this year. You have to have filed paperwork by a certain point late in tenth grade in order to put that process in place. Ideally, your D would be better off going to college early WITH a diploma. For instance, when I called every program on my D's list to ask if they took a student who graduated after three years of high school, they said no problem, AS LONG AS SHE EARNED her DIPLOMA....some said, "we don't care how many years it took to earn it, as long as she earned it". One, NYU, where she actually is headed, said "we have even taken students like that in the past. She might want to include a statement about this with her application." A girl we knew in CAP21 told us she had a friend in the program who did what my D wanted to do. </p>

<p>I'm not advocating that anyone graduate high school early. The reasons need to be compelling and across the board and not in any one area (such as academic). This is not anything I had ever planned on with my own kid but then again, she has never followed a "normal" path in terms of her schooling. When she articulated all her reasons, I will admit, I could not disagree with any of them. My reason to not let her do it would be that I was not anxious for her to leave home any earlier than expected (which in her case, due to entering K early, meant she's leaving while still sixteen). My child is VERY strong willed and VERY driven. Anyone who knows her who knows she graduated early are NOT surprised because of her social, academic and artistic development. This is a major decision.</p>

<p>I went along with my child but the very first thing I said we had to do was to check with every program on her list at that juncture (Jan. before the fall she'd want to apply) to see about their policy because no sense doing this if it would jeopardize her chances. Once every program said it was fine, the process went into full speed ahead. Even THEN, as mentioned, I am sure her application was scrutinized more than an ordinary applicant. But there ARE some kids where this is appropriate. As mentioned, she received honors type status, scholar status and merit scholarships at these schools so they ARE willing to look at younger kids but some may NOT be willing to take students who want to enroll early without a diploma. I think there are less schools in that category than ones taking early graduates. But there are indeed some. You just need to find out which. And I agree wholeheartedly with AlwaysAMom that if you are doing this THIS year, you ought to be pretty far into the process and not starting out now. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>Where are we? Well, we have a short list which I have NOT called yet. She wants a MT program with strong music component. She has audition pieces already (both classical and contemporary) and 'soft' agreement on recommendations from 3-4 teachers. I do want to call before we pay up for any applications. </p>

<p>I understand the not having a diploma being an issue in many ways. (one which I did not advocate at all but am willing to consider). We are at a crossroads here and I know it. </p>

<p>I appreciate everyones input! FUrhter thoughts are appreciated!</p>

<p>MikksMom</p>

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<p>One more possibility - it may not be feasible in your school district - BUT - if this is important enough for her to want to go to college in a year, would she be willing/able to transfer to what would be her regular (non-arts) HS, and thus be able to get her diploma? That may be the easier answer, than to discover that schools she is truly interested in wouldn't consider her without the diploma.</p>

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<p>While this is not what advice you are looking for....let's say very few MT BFA programs respond that they will take a kid who wants to enroll early (without a diploma). Do find out, of course, ASAP, so you can plan accordingly but let's say the answer is very few options. So, IF your D is to remain at her HS for two more years, I would put lots of energy into finding accomodations to meet her academic needs and her artistic needs if I am assuming you feel that the last year will not involve enough challenge or growth. I have children who have needed accomodations made at school with regard to acceleration, in depth independent studies and so forth. I'd be looking at ways you can make the best of these next two years. Perhaps some college courses, independent studies, acceleration, internships. Professional theater work? Summer intensives? Long distance course work? My kids have not followed the normal path in school and did many of these things. I won't get into them all here. But even what comes to my mind is in the past two years, my MT kid initiated and created/directed two musical revues, something never done at our school before and was completely student run. There are ways to find challenges so that the issues you want to understandably deal with in her schooling that fourth year can be addressed. Perhaps there are national competitions she can enter. Study witha mentor? If she has more than enough credits, do community service part of the day....arts in the elementary school? Can she teach dance at her dance studio? My kids have done that. Can she choreograph? Give voice lessons to kids? Audition for the highest level of theater work regionally? Take 12th grade courses in 11th grade? Do a semester abroad? If early enrollment turns out not to be an option, I would still think about addressing her needs which have brought you to even be considering her going to college early. These needs won't go away so the idea now is to find ways to provide the necessary challenge for her. I would talk to the school about it and brainstorm ideas or make proposals that you advocate. Being in an arts high school is one great thing you have that we don't. Has she already accomplished pretty much everything she would hope to have done on the high school level? Has she been playing lead roles there for a while? Has she auditioned for state level things? If she has accomplished all this so far, then this is an issue and you have to find options to keep her challenged appropriately. That's the issue at hand. Early enrollment is one solution. If that one does not work out because the colleges do not allow it (or at least the colleges she actually wants to attend......like I said before, I would not proceed if you have to knock out her favored schools because they do not allow this), then you have other options to pursue to accomodate her learning needs....academically, socially, and artistically.</p>

<p>PS the suggestion from MusThCC is another option to look into....if she feels very driven and compelled to graduate early and your HS does not allow it, perhaps it might be worth going to her public school, doing one more year, graduating, and getting her arts training outside the school day (like many kids such as mine do). If she is this driven to graduate early, then there are avenues worth pursuing. It is getting late, however, to put them into place. If it is not compelling, then stay the course to graduate in two years, but find ways to accomodate her need for appropriate challenge. Often you must CREATE these as schools don't usually initiate that. Create and advocate. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

16

<p>Alwaysamom,</p>

<p>you commented:</p>

<p>"I can't give you a definitive answer on all of the commonly discussed schools here but I can tell you that New York state law requires that before students enroll in any institution of higher learning, they must have on record, a high school diploma or GED..."</p>

<p>My information is that this not true for Cornell. A friend is an admissions counselor there, and I"ve asked specifically about this. I also know a student who enrolled at Cornell at age 16 after home schooling. </p>

<p>Chrism</p>

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<p>If your D is a very strong student academically, she might be eligible for the University of Southern California's Residential Honors program which is designed for students who enter after 11th grade with very high academics. She could major in BA Acting in the Theater school and minor in MT in the Music School and get a great academic four-year program. It's very competitive, though, since the Res Honors program is kept small. (Merit scholarships are excellent.)</p>

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<p>Sorry, I meant to include the link for the program, too:
<a href="http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/general_studies/RHP/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/general_studies/RHP/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>chrism, I should have elaborated on my response to include the fact that for home-schooled students, there is a process whereby they must get verification from their resident school district to say that they will be meeting all compulsory educational requirements through full-time college study. The verification is an approved Individualized Home Instruction Plan that includes full-time college study. This may be what your admissions officer friend is thinking of when saying that a diploma or GED is not necessary. Or, they may require the student to have completed the GED prior to graduation from college. Permission is sometimes granted for that, as well. This is a difference set of circumstances, though, than that which was posted by Mikksmom, but I apologize for not including it.</p>

20

<p>I don't know if this will help you, but my D (now a senior) got the undergraduate catalog for Point Park yesterday. They state:</p>

<p>"A student with an exceptional academic record and a recommendation from high school officials and parents may apply for early admission at the end of the junior year. It is recommended that students interested in early admission take the SAT in March or May of their junior year in high school"</p>

<p>You might want to call them to have them explain further....800-321-0129 <a href="http://www.pointpark.edu%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.pointpark.edu&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>