<p>Mom of rising sophomore running about 2 years ahead of grade level in Math (AP Calc) and one year in Eng (skipped to AP Eng 11). Been reading this board, and I'm getting a bit depressed. We make a good living, but are not wealthy by any stretch. Based on the numbers that I see discussed, we will likely be paying for the whole college shebang. Never expected to get need-based aid, but I thought merit was a possibility. The top schools seem to have no "true merit" aid---only need-based merit aid. Those with low incomes can get in and receive aid/grants, and those with money to burn can get in and pay in full---but we're in the mushy middle. Well off---but not well off enough to plunk down or crazy enough to borrow $60K per year, especially with other kids coming down the pike. Given my kid's grades and scores, I think she has a good chance of getting in many schools---but there is no way I'd let her borrow $240K to go to school with grad school following on behind. We have a very good public university in our state (top 25). So unless lightning strikes and she gets merit aid at a good school (which seems like hitting the lottery), she is going to the in-state school. So, with such odds---should I even bother to continue to retain the private college counselor (already retained), etc. if we can't afford to pay the full boat. Am I missing something???</p>
<p>First of all, I think private counselors can be a waste of good money. There isn’t anything that person can do for you that you can’t find out for free here on CC.</p>
<p>Secondly, there’s nothing wrong with a top student attending your very good flagship (top 25). </p>
<p>Thirdly, any good school is good enough to get into a good grad school program. </p>
<p>Lastly, look into schools that will give your child large merit scholarships so that there will be other options other than the state school.</p>
<p>There are a number of excellent schools that offer merit. Ivies do not, but other very good schools do It’s not just an ivy or the state school. And you do not need to pay an advisor to help you figure things out.</p>
<p>What did you retain the private counselor to do? We know folks who used private college counselors to help find colleges and to help the students prepare their applications. If you have already paid the counselor and signed a contract, these services might be helpful.</p>
<p>BUT the private counselor will not be able to get you financial aid above and beyond what the schools would offer to your child anyway.</p>
<p>Have you discussed financial limitations with this private counselor? If not, I would suggest you do so…AND make sure your kiddo is also aware of any financial constraints.</p>
<p>Why would you “retain” private college counselors when the kids are sophomores?</p>
<p>We retained the college advisor to help us understand our area high school options, as well as plan for college. D could technically graduate in two years, so there was also the going off to college early discussion. D is our oldest, and we always seem to make our mistakes with her. Just wanted some insurance that we were doing the right thing. The advisor served the purpose above, but I’ve visited a few schools and learned a lot—mainly about the money side. It’s going to mean more limited options than I originally thought.</p>
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You have arrived at the same place that many of us find ourselves. At first it probably feels like there is something amiss here, since people with incomes LESS than yours, along with people with incomes larger than yours, can somehow manage to send their kid to a school which YOU somehow cannot afford. There are several things to ponder here:</p>
<p>1) Very few people actually get coverage from the school in the amount to meet their full need. They end up with loans, work study, and gaps, just like the everyone else. Most of the “poor” kids go to community colleges - if that. Very few of them get into HYPSM.</p>
<p>2) Were YOU to decide to assume the <em>lifestyle</em> of those low income people who suddenly look like they have something on you, and continue that lifestyle for X years, you too could afford the pricy school with all the money you would be saving.</p>
<p>3) Were YOU to assume the income/assets of those low income people who suddenly look like they have something on you, you too would soon qualify for aid. It’s easy to move down the ladder. Really want to go there?</p>
<p>4) Given the above, the options are not more limited than you thought, it’s just that some of them are not all that appealing.</p>
<p>5) Your D is going to be a sophomore. At this point, her best shot at big merit money is probably the PSAT. Some schools give full tuition scholarships for students making finalist. </p>
<p>6) The “top schools” are not the only places with the “top students.” Your D does not have to attend one of them in order to be successful.</p>
<p>Reiterating some of the advice above. If your child has the stats to be competitive at a so-called “top” school, then he or she also has the stats to qualify for a major merit award at any of several hundred very, very good private colleges and universities - and if the kid is a motivated learner, he or she can get just as good an education at one of these less-prestigious schools as at one of the so-called “top” schools. Thirty years of solid research have conclusively shown that what students do when they get to college is much more important than what colleges they go to - and that there is no identifiable educational advantage to attending a more prestigious or more selective school.</p>
<p>So you do have affordable options - a state school (more or less affordable, depending on where you live) and many private schools.</p>
<p>I’m sorry if my college epiphany seemed inconsiderate of those earning less than (or more than) our family. Not intended. I just am considering the impact on my family right now (and not the macro economic and social issues), and how much I should invest in college “positioning” by experts—when the outcome seems pretty clear from the beginning. I think my kid can try for privates/oos and see if they can match our state flagship but the likelihood of them matching and being ranked as well as our state flagship is slim. I just need to drink a glass of wine, calm down and drill down on how to nail flagship top stats to ensure entry. Thanks to all for the perspective. It seems others have come to this same realization before. Welcome to the mushy middle.</p>
<p>Rankings mean nothing. They are based on prestige and nothing more. None of the criteria used in the most commonly cited rankings have ever been correlated with educational outcomes, in spite of numerous scholarly research studies that have looked for just such a correlation. </p>
<p>Your State flagship may be the best choice for your child. But you should cast a wider net, and encourage your child to find some privates where he or she ranks above the 75th percentile. You might be very pleasantly surprised when the financial aid packages arrive.</p>
<p>It sounds like you’re in Virginia. If so, then between UVA and Wm and Mary you have some great choices right there. </p>
<p>what is your child’s intended major or career? you mention grad school. Any good school is good enough for grad school…and your terminal degree is what’s important.</p>
<p>I’m always reminded of my son’s orthopedic surgeon. He went to Duke for med school and his residency was at the Mayo Clinic. His undergrad? a lowly Florida public.</p>
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<p>If you’re looking at options in terms of “rank,” you’re going to end up disappointed no matter what your financial resources. What if you could afford ANY school in the country . . . and your child decided she wanted to attend that tiny little liberal arts college in Tennessee that no one ever hear of? You’d be able to afford it, but it sounds like you still wouldn’t be happy about it.</p>
<p>Your child’s strong performance in high school gives her lots of options. Explore them with her. She might find that your state flagship is exactly what she’s looking for . . . or she might decide that a not-so-well-known private college willing to give her substantial merit aid is a much better fit for her.</p>
<p>Read the book [Cool</a> Colleges](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Colleges-Hyper-Intelligent-Self-Directed-Different/dp/1580088392/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1343040167&sr=8-2&keywords=cool+college][b]Cool”>http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Colleges-Hyper-Intelligent-Self-Directed-Different/dp/1580088392/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1343040167&sr=8-2&keywords=cool+college) by Donald Asher - you can probably find it at your local library. It will give you both some great ideas. And check out the website for the [Colleges</a> That Change Lives](<a href=“http://www.ctcl.org/][b]Colleges”>http://www.ctcl.org/) - it’s also a great resource.</p>
<p>It’s true, there are many schools that you won’t be able to afford . . . but there are many, many more that you can. Start exploring!</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1367319-how-families-sometimes-do.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1367319-how-families-sometimes-do.html</a> is a thread I wrote about a true experience of an upper middle class family with a student that has a good academic profile.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that if you want your child in private school, boarding school at ANY point of the school journey, it is expensive. You gotta pay for it. There are some amazing prep schools in this country steeped in tradition, that offer wonderful academics, great learning opportunities and have as preselected student body so that your student can be with others with similar learning ability and interests and goals. But in most cases, it will cost you.</p>
<p>So it is with college. But most of us have some idea that we want our kids to have that opportunity to go to a private, well known college–in fact so many of us are so in love with that idea that it is hyped big time to whet that appetite. Not so at the nursery, grammar, middle and high school levels, except in certain places (Manhattan), but definitely at the college level. The wonderful thing that it is at that level is that you have 18 years to save and prepare for it. From the first checks and money you may get at the christening or birthday parties from relatives, to all of the bits of money you can put away for this beloved child, you are supposed to be building a bit of a nest egg for college, especially if you have your eye on the most expensive schools. </p>
<p>Your student should also be putting some money away, as s/he gets the odd dollar here and there. I grew up in a lower middle income family, and my parents forced all of us to “save for college”. Half, often all, of any money we got went into our college savings. When a student can get a work permit, s/he should be earning some money to pay for his/her own discretional spending, and to put away for future options. This should be hand in hand with the parents, who can have an account in their own names but have the student pay back some expenses as an additional funding source.</p>
<p>Sadly, I am seeing fewer and fewer kids and parents even bothering to do this. Some of this is due, IMO, to the great myth that a great student is going to get a scholarship and get his way paid through any college he chooses. That there are scholarships all over the place that go unclaimed, and a good student has no worries. If you get in, there will be a way. </p>
<p>Sort of true, for some cases, but not in the way most of us want it to work out. College is supposed to be funded out of past (savings), present (budgeting and scrimping those college years) and future (loans) on the part of both parent and student. </p>
<p>If you and your student have not saved a whit for that quarter million dollar expense looming, well, you are not going to have all of the options you would, had you done so. If you really think your economic bracket is less preferable to those who will most certainly qualify for full financial aid at those schools who guarantee to meet it, then you still have time to quit your job and donate your assets to some causes, and take the same chances such people have to take, that their students will get into such school and that aid will be forthcoming. Oh, and you’ll have to live at that economic standard for that period of time, too. But, yes, your student just might get the benefit of a a quarter million dollars in financial aid. YOU are in a position right now to make that choice, which those who currently are in that economic category, are stuck and forced to play that lottery, as getting the money is a whole other story and not as easily doable.</p>
<p>If you are in that category where you get little or zero aid from those schools that give only need based aid, you should be in position where borrowing those funds through PLUS and cutting back on your expenses for the next however many years needed, is possible. Someone living on $150K a year or so, has a lot of fat that can be cut. Yes, it hurts, but it can be done. And that’s if you have NO savings at all to put to the cause. Any savings you have will alleviate the pain of the loan and scrimping. Also, it 's not too late for your student to find some job that makes some money. You are not so rich to be able to support her for the rest of her life so she should be getting used to working. I am an older mom here and it is alarming how many kids from families who will not be supporting them once they are adults, are not getting it that, yes, they have to work, and at jobs they may not like. We, (and I include myself in this category, though I did ok on the work part) have spoiled our kids terribly, many of us have, in giving them everything we could that they want and giving them a lifestyle that they will not be able to sustain on their own. The break point comes in young adulthood and it can be a painful one. You are doing your child no favors if s/he is not working, saving and paying for things, and understands this is an essential part of life. </p>
<p>Once your student has a school that is certain to take her, and is definitely affordable, you can go to town with the other choices, bearing in mind that some will be very expensive and YOU will have to decide if they are worth it for YOU to pay. Your student will be limited in what loans she can take, so YOU will be the one who has to take out the loans. Even private loans that are technically in a student’s name will require you or another creditworthy person to sign and be EQUALLY on the hook until it is paid. Your student is pretty much limited to $5500 in DIrect Stafford loans freshman years that go up to $7500 for seniors, hardly a drop in the bucket, though one many families insist their kids take to “have skin in the game”, so to speak. But that’s only a little more than 10% of the cost. NIce if she can work and save enough to pay another 10% over the summer, and another 5% over the school year by working. Maybe you can come up with another 15% from household spending cuts with the student gone and eating/living at college. You see where this is going?</p>
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OP mentions North Carolina School of Science and Math (Durham?) on another thread, so possibly in state to University of North Carolina, in which case why even worry about any place else :)?.</p>
<p>^^</p>
<p>Exactly! Why spend $60k+ when an instate kid can go to UNC-CH for half the price!</p>
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<p>Again I ask…what is this “college positioning expert” promising you he/she can do? </p>
<p>Personally, I wouldn’t spend a nickel on a private college positioning expert, especially if I had concerns about having enough money to pay for college. I would save that money to PAY for college.</p>
<p>If you are from a state with strong instate public universities at instate costs that are within your means, I have trouble understanding why you wouldn’t consider those schools in a big way. There are families who relocate to places like NC and VA prior to high school JUST so that their kids can have the instate public university options these states have.</p>
<p>Yes…your son/daughter can apply to other schools, but if finances are a serious consideration, you need to explain this to the student so they understand that if they don’t get the money to match the instate costs…they cannot attend. </p>
<p>As mentioned…if your kiddo is a competitive candidate for very competitive schools, perhaps he/she is also a contender for merit aid at a less competitive school.</p>
<p>Yes, UNC-CH would be our flagship. My husband and I have saved since the day our kids were born for college----but, with multiple children and 2008 crash, it just doesn’t add up to paying for anything more than in-state college. Each of our kids could come out of a state school with no debt. I am encouraging all my kids to go to grad school, and they will have to pay these grad expenses themselves. My daughter wants something different than the state flagship (desire to be different), and knowing her, she would do better (enjoy it more, probably do the same grade-wise) in a smaller learning environment where there is a lot teacher attention. I see too many kids with expensive diplomas these days and no jobs (and lots of debt for either the student or the parents). Until the market picks up (which may not be before she goes to college), I just don’t think I would encourage my daughter to borrow too much (if any) for undergrad. I’m just grappling to understand the true “value of the prestige” factor for college purposes. And, whether, I’m being cheap or savvy.</p>
<p>Has your daughter considered applying to the Honors college ar UNC-CH. It is one way to make a big school seem small.</p>
<p>[Honors</a> Carolina | FAQs](<a href=“http://honorscarolina.unc.edu/faqs/]Honors”>FAQ - Honors Carolina | Come Here. Go Anywhere.)</p>
<p>Do you think that your daughter is competive enough to receive a Morehead-Cain, Robertson, Carolina, Johnston or Pogue Scholarship?</p>
<p>[Who</a> We Are The Morehead-Cain Scholars Program UNC Chapel Hill](<a href=“http://moreheadcain.org/about]Who”>About Morehead-Cain | Morehead-Cain)</p>
<p>[Robertson</a> Scholars: Selection Criteria](<a href=“http://www.robertsonscholars.org/index.php?type=static&source=1560]Robertson”>http://www.robertsonscholars.org/index.php?type=static&source=1560)</p>
<p>[UNC</a> Scholars Program FAQ](<a href=“http://uncscholarsprogram.com/faq/]UNC”>http://uncscholarsprogram.com/faq/)</p>
<p>If your daughter goes to chapel hill and does well, she will be able to hold her own.</p>
<p>I would also advise you to look up posts by curmudgeon, whose D was accepted to Amherst and Yale, but could not attend because the $$ did not work out. They new that med school was on the horizion. Student ended up getting a full scholly to Rhodes, and is currently at Yale med.</p>
<p>I would also recommend that you ask M2k about opportunities at University of Alabama, where her sons are enjoying (enjoyed) full schollies and one is in a top Phd. program.</p>
<p>katwkittens and cptofthehouse have both put 5 kids through college and are a wealth of information</p>
<p>Kat and a few other parents wrote a really wonderful and insightful post in the parents thread talking to kids about finances</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1361400-talking-about-finances-parents-4.html#post14597134[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1361400-talking-about-finances-parents-4.html#post14597134</a></p>
<p>What about some privates like Elon, Sewanee, etc which might be manageable with some merit aid and the saved funds? I can understand a student who wants a small school environment (both DDs went to LACs).</p>
<p>Don’t have your daughter sleep on the womens colleges; mount holyoke and smith. Both are SAT optional, are part of the 5 college consortium, and give merit $4</p>
<p>My family makes tons of money - if i lived in arkansas. Instead i live in the dc metro area. We have a modest house. I drive a car with over 200k. We have paid for schooling - like most in my county. It just comes with the territory. Private schools cost as much as or more than some colleges. My son does not attend one of those schools. I am ****ed. Why should i be penalized for having a job! People need to get off of their high horses. Having a job does not make you rich. In fact it can make you poor - just not poor enough. My son does well in school. I dont care about the ivies or rankings but i would like my son to go to the school he feels comfortable in. It seems like colleges would rather grant merit to students who qualify for need based monies. So where does that leave my hard working son and his non fur, non yacht, non mansion having parents? The whole college thing is a scam on the american people. I know i have to be in the game but i dont have to like it.</p>