<p>I don't know anything about Yale economics; my daughter is a history major.</p>
<p>No Ivies have undergrad schools of music. Harvard has a new joint degree program with the New England Conservatory, and Columbia has had one for years with Juilliard. I believe that in both cases you have to apply and get into each school individually, and I am told that the programs are so gruelling that few people manage to finish.</p>
<p>If your in the top 25% yet your an amazing instrumentalist, I'd consider schools that weigh musical ability over grades and such. I obviously can't get a precise idea of your talent from your post, but maybe look at juliard and schools like that...</p>
<p>I've been looking into Bard, Oberlin and such, does anybody know anyting about them and thir music programs? I really want a double major in Liberal Arts and Music or Msuic Performance. I'm not looking for a strictly music probram (i.e julliard, curtis, i doubt im good enough to go there) I'd like to get a well rounded education because I'm thinking about getting an MBA afterwards, I just dont want to throw away all the time I spent studing music, I really do love it, its the only thing i'm remotly good at. Thats why I was hoping for a really good school to have a music school, that way I might have a good chance at getting into a prestegious school. I'd like to go north/north east, any ideas? Thanks!</p>
<p>Also, I forgot to add, if you were to get into the New England Conservatory, does it increase your chances at getting into Harvard, and with programs like that (Julliard/Columbia)?</p>
<p>Bard and Oberlin are excellent for music, as well as other disciplines. Have you looked at Indiana University at Bloomington? Outstanding for music and business--look into economics though. I've heard good things about Iowa and UCLA too.</p>
<p>Pairings to consider:
Harvard and NEC
Columbia and Julliard
U of Rochester and Curtis
Johns Hopkins and Peabody (I'm doing this myself)</p>
<p>In addition to Bard and Oberlin, take a look at Amherst, Bowdoin, and Rice University (Texans take their music very seriously :) )</p>
<p>Actually, it's U of Rochester & Eastman. Curtis is in Philadelphia. Also look at BU, which has both a music & business school. Rice is an excellent suggestion -- they have a rich & excellent music school. Amherst does not have a music performance program, nor does Bowdoin. Bard's conservatory program is quite new. Also look at Cleveland Institute of Music, which has a relationship with Case Western Reserve. I know less about the West Coast but have heard that USC has a good music program and it's certainly a big university with other stuff as well. </p>
<p>NEC also has a joint program with Tufts that's been around for a number of years, again with very few students because it's so hard. These joint programs typically take five years to get both a B.A. and B.Mus. (the music performance degree). In all cases of joint programs at schools that are independent of each other, the application processes are totally separate and have no bearing on one another. It's entirely possible, say, to get into Tufts but not NEC, or the other way around.</p>
<p>Also please note the correct spelling of Juilliard.</p>
<p>How do you like John Hopkinds and Peabody, pretty hard? Also what would you say are some stats to get in, pretty high standards on both sides (music/grades)? Douthing if you try out for a college like amherst and have a good audition i could get in with a 3.2/3.7 (still have rest of jr and sr left)? I dont have outstanding stats, but I do like to give myself a challenge? What do you think?</p>
<p>JHU and Peabody would be extremely hard. But I'm okay with that :)</p>
<p>My bad about Curtis/Eastman. Is it UPenn/Curtis? I have so many institutions floating around in my head, they bump into each other and exchange components.</p>
<p>IMO Amherst and Bowdoin have fine music programs. They're not conservatory-type official "programs" but the classes and facilities are good (Amherst purposely says they don't have set programs at all; they prepare you for life, not for a plug-and-chug career). The music building at Amherst is awesome, and they have some wonderful modern music people. Maybe Bowdoin's only good for flute, that's what I checked out after all.</p>
<p>If you're going into both economics and music they would be good choices because at other schools they tend to make you choose. Big places have separate departments, or totally separate schools if you're doing a pairing deal, that conflict with each other course- and locationwise. And like veteranmom said, if you're banking on a double-school deal it's less likely to fall into place.</p>
<p>Are you talking about Amherst College or UMass Amherst? If your talking about the college I see no music program.</p>
<p>Amherst College: <a href="http://www.amherst.edu/%7Emusic/%5B/url%5D">http://www.amherst.edu/~music/</a></p>
<p>I emailed an admissions person at UPenn and he said that there is no joint program or partnership with Curtis.</p>
<p>Intersting, but I probably wouldn't do it anyways, both of thoes school are VERY demanding, not that I could get into either one of thoes schools, though I like both of them. Curtis is probably more demanding that Penn. From what I've read, you could stay there for years(4+), you can't leave untill you teacher thinks, or says, you good enough to go. It would be amazing to go there though, but i'm no that good. I think only a little over 100 students are accepted wach year!</p>
<p>Curtis has nothing to do with UPenn. It is a small conservatory (tuition-free for everyone, by the way) that is, I believe, the most selective institution of higher education in the US. It is true that you stay there until you (and your teachers) decide you're ready to be a grown-up musician. My D has a couple of friends from high school there, both taking a 5th year. Only the very most able & advanced players should even bother to audition. The typical Curtis student has been playing at a near-professional level probably since their early teenage years, has won numerous musical competitions, and has been practicing 4 to 6 hours a day for years. </p>
<p>As I said earlier, the correct place for this discussion is in the arts major section, not the Yale forum.</p>
<p>If you are serious about studying music with another major, and don't want to spend your college years on a bus going back from Johns Hopkins to Peabody, U of R to Eastman, Harvard, well, you know the drill. How about one of the larger schools, like Indiana University or University of Michigan. They always dominate the rankings, and you could be at a top music school while being able to study what you want. Besides, you could get major scholarships.</p>
<p>violinguy, my D is planning a double major in music and a hard science, so we have explored this in detail. </p>
<p>Veteranmom is correct. There is no school of music for undergraduates at Yale or any other of the Ivy League universities. The student is accepted to the undergraduate college and then chooses to double major. Yale, Harvard, Columbia, and to a lesser degree, Penn do have performance opportunities for undergrads, but it is a general BA degree and not a BM or BFA. Yale, Harvard, and Columbia have 5 year BA/MM programs: Yale with its own graduate school of music, Harvard with the NEC and Columbia with The Julliard School. Students may apply anytime from prior to the freshman year to the end of the sophomore year and must be accepted at both programs independently (your chances of being accepted in the undergraduate school do NOT increase if you are accepted to the conservatory and vice versa). This is extremely rare. Harvard had 1 student last year. Columbia less than 5 students. I don't know how many students do this at Yale, but the faculty my daughter met with during her interview said "few, very few". You have to be tops in violin nationally to get accepted. As a Julliard recruiter my D spoke to put it, "We don't want to bake the cake. We just want to ice it."</p>
<p>Some specifics: At Harvard, you must write a senior thesis that combines your two majors. This is not difficult with some double majors, nearly impossible with others. Think carefully about this. Penn has historically been quite good in music composition, and weak in performance. This has changed in the last few years and the music department is doing its best to arrange performance opportunities for its best musicians. A friend's son sat 1st chair cello in the Penn Orchestra from his freshman year onwards. He arranged for private lessons at Temple. He double majored in English and music. His last 2 years, Penn arranged for private chamber music lessons for a string quartet in which he played. Brown has a great ethnomusicology department, but no emphasis on performance. Princeton has many many extracurricular music opportunities, but the music "concentration" (the word for major there) is weak in that there are few faculty and the focus is on composition, not performance. I don't know anything about the programs at Dartmouth or Cornell.</p>
<p>Oberlin has a 5 year BA/BM program to which they accept 25 students per year. These are the top applicants to both the college and the conservatory who have to be accepted independently to both. It is very rigorous, and when we spoke with the chairman in my D's specialty, he told us that most students switch to a straight conservatory program along the way. Other parents have posted that their experience is different and that many students do complete the double degree program.</p>
<p>Now, let's look at your specific case with the understanding that you are a junior and with the statistics you have posted. At all of the Ivy League schools, unless you are a URM, athlete, or VIP admit, you must be in the top 10% of your class, have a GPA >3.9 for the most part, and have SAT (the old scores) >1500-1550 (equivalent to approx 2250 on the new exam) if you are a white male. I would love to believe that you will be able to accomplish all three of these things in this year, but the numbers are stacked against you. As a white male with your statistics, it is unlikely that you specifically will get any admissions boost from applying SCEA or ED to these schools. Oberlin College is extremely selective (acceptance rate approx 30%) and the Conservatory even more so. Even if you are accepted to the conservatory as a superb violinist (you should currently sit first chair and probably have national awards to your credit), your test scores are well below the range of their accepted students at the College.</p>
<p>I would strongly recommend that you research programs that are more in line with your academic statistics. Look at Lawrence U in Appleton, WI which has a liberal arts school and a conservatory and also offers a 5 year BA/BM program. Look at larger state schools like IU, UMich, or Ohio State. Look at U of Rochester if you are a good enough violinist to get in to Eastman. Your statistics are low for Johns Hopkins, but take a look at Peabody. You might consider Univ of Maryland-Baltimore and study at Peabody. You have PLENTY of time to do your homework on this subject. Good luck.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for people like you and me (and there are others on this board), students cannot know for sure whether or not they even get lessons with YSM faculty until fall auditions, after they've enrolled. Thus, you basically have to get a teacher to agree in advance to take you.</p>
<p>I am wondering, just supposing I were a very advanced musician auditioning as an undergrad for the music school, but none of the teachers know me, what would my chances of getting in be, considering other undergrads already have connections with some of the music teachers?</p>
<p>if ur good, ull get in. =P</p>
<p>Amy - My daughter is a classical soprano who hopes to get into Yale a year from now. She has some nice credentials, top-ranked in state competitions, etc., but has not been involved in performance at the national level. How did you go about contacting the Music faculty at Yale to demonstrate your interest? Do you believe your piano abilities played a role in your acceptance?</p>
<p>gadad, best of luck to your daughter! As fiddlefrog said, the Yale Music School is a professional school, so undergraduates generally cannot enroll as a major. However, a few are admitted each year if they pass the auditions at the start of the new school year, but as a double major student (one being their music performance degree). Undergrad music students should be quite serious about music. I've been competing nationally/internationally for the past two years. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I think my piano abilities had a slight influence on my acceptance, since I included a CD of my conservatory audition repertoire, but I still think academic accomplishments are more important to get into Yale, especially for undergrads. I'm still a little confused about the fall auditions, but I'm going to visit the campus this weekend and will have a lesson with a piano depart. faculty there. I'll post what Prof. Blocker says next week.<br>
Sorry, shrek, I realize my comment was somewhat dumb, but in music, connections are so important unless you're a music prodigy and that's what I was wondering about for Yale.</p>