Yes, normally kids from the top 5-10% of a competitive high school would be just another “average excellent” without some other factor to raise them “into the mix.” But for schools that value their orchestras yet don’t have conservatory programs/BM majors from which to draw high performing musicians, being a musician with conservatory-level skills can be a hook similar to athlete/legacy/donor/faculty (as long as the student is also average excellent, i.e. in the top 10%, decent test scores etc.) Examples of schools like this are the ivys and little ivys.
This is NOT to say that students in these orchestras will go on to become professional musicians. Usually these students choose to go on to do something related to their major (STEM in OP’s case.)
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Instagram search some of the seniors in NYO. All of the seniors in my son’s instrument at one of the nyc precollege programs are going to Ivys and Ivy equivalents as are those at the other precollege (or to conservatory based programs).
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Rice Shepherd school of music is a well (if not highly) regarded conservatory. Some current students chose them over Juilliard. University of Michigan School of Music, Theatre & Dance also has a great reputation for music performance major students.
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OP mentioned that he/she attended NYO so should have ways (i.e. Discord) to contact current and former members. They share their plans, stats, and first-hand experiences. Hope OP finds several with similar profiles to his/her own.
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My statement wasn’t a knock at the programs in those schools - it was validation of what @helpingthekid73 said and was a learning for me.
Still agree to disagree though that someone in the top 5-10% of their school (there might be a small handful of private schools where this can be true) have a chance of getting into those schools unless they’ve also won the nobel prize or come up with a cure for a disease.
I can’t keep track of all of these threads (ha) but getting back to OP specific he said he has a 4.0UW and 4.5 W and a 1550 sat plus he was a member of NYO. This is not the average excellent kid. This is an exceptional one.
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yes, it is enough of a hook for admission to the tippy tops, absolutely. And being top 5 -10% academically in a good school, along with ACT of, say, 34 or higher, or SAT of 1500 or higher, are good enough to have met the academic threshold for a tippy-top, if you have some extraordinarily high achievement in another area that the college wants. Very high achievement in the performing arts can be that, especially if the school doesn’t have a school of music/dance/theater/whatever.
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You don’t realize that these non-conservatory schools have very prestigious schools of music, with the leading programs in the country for producing orchestral musicians. For certain instruments, Rice is the best place in the country (and Michigan used to be). This is how and why my kid’s evolution went from wanting conservatory, to school of music, to tippy-top, as their career aspirations evolved.
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Last time going to say it - agree to disagree about ability to get in as a top 5-10% student. Keep telling me I don’t realize something (even though I agreed above to the point around Rice and Michigan!).
I was responding to the OP’s statement around the 5-10%. I must have missed the post further down where they post a 4.0UW and 1550 SAT - which is decidedly NOT 5-10%. College Board lists 1550 as the top 99 percentile. 4.0UW tough to tell but he starts by saying it’s reasonably “competitive” (whatever that means these days) but assuming a competitive environment unless he were taking all lower level courses a 4.0UW suggests something well over 5-10%.
He can write back in a year and tell one of us which one was right.
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5-10th % in class rank is the good enough criteria. NOT the standardized test score - that, barring certain circumstances, would need to be at least 95th % in the nation (but if it weren’t, the person would go test optional anyway).
When my kid went into school, after ED came out, a clueless teacher asked the entire class if anyone had had any good news. My kid said nothing, but the class valedictorian, a prince of a fella and a friend of my kid, said, “Well, KID got some good news!” The teacher’s jaw dropped. “THAT kid???” Reason why was my kid was far from the top student in the school (the prince of a fella was), but my kid was up there in the top 10th%, with mostly highest rigor. Everything else kid had done to be among the top 5 in the nation in their year on their instrument, in two disciplines, along with a very nice, but not absolutely perfect ACT, and great letters from both academics and music side, was what got kid in. And kid is not the only one.
Not everyone at NYO and prestigious pre-college conservatory is also a valedictorian - it’s pretty much impossible to practice 40 hours a day (look up Twoset Violin’s Ling Ling practice videos on youtube) and be first in your grade. But they mostly are in the top 5-10th% of their class, and they all get into really prestigious colleges.
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Each year our suburban nyc area HS has a kid who is in the top 5-10% of the class who also attends one of the precollege programs in manhattan get into one or several ivys. This year one is going to Dartmouth and one to Harvard. Last year Harvard and Stanford. In our school there is minimal difference between 3-25 which is the top 10%. And the music kids tend to do better than the valedictorian and saluditorian also.
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Back to OP. Wearing my teacher hat (instead of a mom hat), I hope you can talk to as many student musicians as you can get hold of, especially class of 22 and 23 and ask for their stories and advices. I known four recent NYO/NYO2 members and they each took different approach to music and academic, even changing their minds during application process. To major in music performance only, go for dual degree, or MD with violin hobby, each option requires different kinds of effort and hard work. Keep your options open for as long as you can without burnout. After going through this process, you will come out understanding yourself much better, and you will do great regardless which college you attend. Wish you the best of luck!
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I also have a kid who I am quite sure got into a top Ivy (same one as parentologist’s kid I think) due to unusual music accomplishments. And yes most of the kids in the conservatory prep program (she only attended for two years) went to top schools.
But I think we need to be careful about the use of the word “hook.”
Again, and some of may differ in opinion on this, but I maintain that there are factors in music accomplishments that don’t have anything to do with music, that interest admissions. Letters of recommendation can cover talent, sure, but also work ethic, working with others, broad comments no character, academic interests and curiosity etc. etc. Noone has to promise to play in university orchestra or ensembles when applying.
To the OP, the schools you are interested in are not conservatories and your concern about how many players of your instrument there are is not relevant. I don’t believe admissions checks in to see how many trombones are needed, or whatever. This is overthinking. If you decide to apply to a certain studio at a conservatory or school of music, it is indeed relevant.
There is an excellent music major forum here on CC for anyone with questions about music, and it is open to non-majors.
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