Music major/minor rankings anyone?

College Majors Music Major
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<p>:confused:
Curtis has the reputation. Most consider it an exceptional opportunity and can open many doors. It's a fully paid tuition program, but I think housing (off-site) is not covered by their largesse, but may be partially funded.</p>

<p>Many dream of Curtis. Most have a better shot at winning the lottery. You have to be "one of the few" in all reality.</p>

<p>Another similar opportunity exists in Colburn in LA, a far newer program, but fast attaining stature and reknown, and this is full ride.</p>

<p>If you honestly think you have the chops go for it. Don't be disappointed.</p>

<p>Not all schools are right for all people.</p>

<p>There's always the "lesser" programs. Juilliard, NEC, Mannes, MSM, IU/Jacobs, Peabody, Eastman, and numerous others. (Tongue in cheek here people, don't verbally crucify me!!! :rolleyes:)</p>

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<p>"do you think it's a worthwhile school to go to?"<br>
I think the clocks would stop if someone were to ask this in the halls of Curtis! :D<br>
I think a little investigation needs to be done?!! I am somewhat baffled. Isn't Curtis the best of the best??? I know it is all about "whatever programs fit..." My d actually has master classes at Curtis with the orchestra she performs in. We tend to put it leaps above the "other lesser ones". (I chuckled at your comment, "the lesser ones" Violadad.) I could be very wrong by putting Curtis on a pedestal, so please do not verbally crusify ME!!
Violin26, I do think you need to look into this school. You could very well be the student they are looking for, and they would be honored to have you. I know my older d looked at a few schools only to find out they were far more competitive than she thought. Just the way you stated your question led me to believe you were not well informed about the school.</p>

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<p>Take special note of the expanded audition requirements at Curtis. If you are lucky enough to arrive at the final round of auditions, you need to be prepared to give an impeccable 30-minute performance of advanced literature from memory. With all the pressures of senior year, this is an insurmountable obstacle for many. For this reason, I would imagine that a lot of Curtis students are home schooled. Furthermore, they take quite a few teenagers there and I believe this is done more or less by invitation of a faculty member (don't crucify me if I'm wrong). I've known a couple of 12 to 13-year-olds who were encouraged and more or less invited to go there by one of the violin faculty.</p>

<p>It has renowned faculty and the highest level of student. The focus is on preparation for a solo career. It is the right school for a few, but only for a very few. Perhaps you are one of these few.</p>

44

<p>I also wondered if this was a serious question....</p>

<p>In case it was, Violin26, take a good look at the web site and violin audition requirements. You will see how limited the annual openings are and how small the school (just enough instrumentalists to fill an orchestra, etc). The audition requirements should tell you that they aren't looking for anyone not already extremely accomplished!</p>

<p>You should also be aware that each year, many of the Curtis violin admits are under the age of 18 with some as young as 10, 11,12. In fact, many violin auditioners think they are "over the hill" and stand little chance if they wait to audition until the standard college age of 18 - 19. I'm less familiar with Curtis admits in other instruments, but do know several woodwind players who were high school juniors - not seniors - when accepted. So, you are competing not only against "agemates" like most college auditions, but also against many talented, accomplished students of all ages.</p>

<p>Hi Stringfollies - we cross-posted! Nice we agree!!</p>

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<p>The average age of applicants at Curtis does vary a bit by instrument, and there are upper age limits that vary a bit from department to department. When my daughter auditioned on bass in her senior year of high school, there were about 20 applicants for 1 spot. Most were her age, with a couple of them younger by a year or two and a few who already had a year or two of college under their belts. The fellow who was admitted was a high school grad who had basically taken a gap year to prepare his audition.</p>

<p>Most students rent apartments within walking distance, usually with a roommate. It is in one of the nicest neighborhoods in Philadelphia and apartment costs, while higher than a typical college would charge for dorm space, look good to anyone used to New York or Boston apartment rates. Curtis is very good with financial aid for those who demonstrate need, covering not only living expenses, but also arranging for the loan of a really good instrument if needed, and they also pay a substantial amount of the costs for students to attend competitions and professional auditions.</p>

<p>If you are ever in Philly, stop in just to experience the ambiance of the lobby. There is very obviously a lot of old (at least by US standards) money in the place. They run a free concert series and you can go in to request the schedule for that if you feel you need some reason for being there other than mere curiosity.</p>

<p>Check out the historical marker in front of the school for a bit of a chuckle.</p>

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<p>Hi fiddlestix --- yes we are in lockstep!! Go figure.</p>

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<p>I am a sophomore in high school, but I know I want to go to school to major in composition. I'm very serious, and I think I may have good credentials. I have already attended the San Francisco Conservatory of Music's 5 week composition intensive camp and the New York Summer Music Festival composition program. I have had two (and soon to be 3)pieces performed by my high school string orchestra, and recently, I won the 2008 Wisconsin School Music Association Composition Competition. The fact that I am still midway through my sophomore year, that I have much more time to attain more helpful credentials also seems significant to me.<br>
I am wondering the following:
1. How good and experienced do you have to be to get into, say Juilliard? Curtis? Eastman? Oberlin?
2. What are the general reputations of the big schools for specialties and things? For instance, I want to go into tonal orchestral music. Is there one that's better for that as opposed to atonal music, or one for jazz, etc.?
3. What about out-of-country? What is the general reputation and possibility of Le Conservatoire de Paris, or others?
4. Which ones are the best schools for general education in things completely unrelated to music? I ask because I'm very serious about music, and so I want to get the best training I can, but I'm also very serious about living life to the fullest, and I'm interested in many other departments, although none as much as music, and probably none as likely of a career as music.
5. If, say, one does go to Curtis, what are their general chances of being able to support themselves on composition alone? What about, say, Michigan state, or St. Olaf?</p>

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<p>Hi Zagreen,</p>

<p>My rough answers to your questions:</p>

<ol>
<li>You sound like you are in the ballpark already, because you have already experienced the crucial point in your development as a composer where others have actually rehearsed and performed your music. I am speaking to the earlier point of a MIDI vs. live recording. I would be surprised to hear of any admit to a top composition program who has never actually heard his/her music performed live before. Since you still have a few summers before you apply to music school, you should now consider applying to important summer programs for young composers: Tanglewood-BUTI, Yellow Barn, Aspen, California Summer Music, and many others (search the summer program threads for more input).</li>
<li>To answer this question you would need to look in to the interests of the composers themselves. Studying with, say, Michael Daugherty at Michigan will certainly be different than Chen Yi at UMKC, or Frank Ticheli at USC, as these composers not only write in different styles but also for different genres, ensembles, etc. It would also be useful to explore the overall "universe" of the school and see how composition fits in. Is there film scoring? Jazz? World Music/Ethnomusicology? Is the faculty in these disciplines as serious/prestigious as composition? Is there a dedicated new music ensemble, with its own music director, or is it all up to the symphony orchestra's conductor (where competing agendas could potentially sideline student compositions)?</li>
<li>Parlez vous Francais? If not, forget that school entirely. Other music schools in Europe may be an option (Sibelius, RAM/RCM/RNCM, Santa Cecilia) but note there can be very different expectations in terms of musical preparation and pedagogy, more so than is found in instrumental instruction. </li>
<li>Without knowing your viability for such programs, Ivy-league schools place particular pride in their composition faculties. And remember John Adams went to Harvard, and Steve Reich went to Cornell. There are also many reputable composition programs within large research universities that provide plenty of extramusical stimulation. </li>
<li>Very very few American composers (outside of commerical/film people) support themselves entirely through commissions. So few do so, in fact, that they represent too small of a "sample" to then definitively say "School X's graduates find jobs." Composition is simply too individualized a profession. From your neck of the woods, Stephen Paulus (PhD Minnesota) supports himself entirely with his music, without any teaching obligations. Same for Phillip Glass (does film music), John Adams, Steve Reich (has his own band). But by and large, even Pulitzer- and Grawemeyer-winning composers have a conservatory/university teaching gig. And most arrive at that post via a PhD from one of, say, 15 or so top programs at Ivy League schools, research universities, and conservatories. </li>
</ol>

<p>Finally I wanted to suggest the Bard Conservatory as an option as well (which is where I work). Two of America's most eminent composers, Joan Tower and George Tsontakis, teach a small group of undergraduates in a very supportive atmosphere. The performance opportunities for our composers are significant. Our student composers work every semester with the Da Capo Chamber players, an important NYC-based new music ensemble (they won the Naumberg award in 1973), ensuring they have several decent recordings of their scores by professional musicians prior to graduation. One of our current students had a work performed at the concert opening Merkin Hall's current season. Each graduating student has a major work for full orchestra performed in concert and recorded by the American Symphony Orchestra. In addition, we require all of our music students to earn a degree in a liberal arts/science field outside of music, which gives our composition students opportunities to pursue interests in philosophy, science, film, languages, etc.</p>

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<p>N8MA,
I want to thank you for such a thoughtful and well-articulated reply. Your post should have a stickie of its own as a guide for prospective composition students.</p>

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<p>I am a high school senior. I am a percussionist - drumset is my main instrument but I also play marimba & timpani. I want to pursue performance and music education at a secondary or college level. I have applied to the following schools and would like input the school's program & instructors to help make my final decision.... Indiana University, University of Michigan, Eastman School of Music, Berklee, SUNY Potsdam - Crane. I like jazz but also enjoy classical. Is anyone aware of any changes in their program that I ought to be aware of before I make my college choice? Are there any other schools that I ought to serious consider?</p>

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<p>I think Ithaca has good percussion and music education...</p>

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<p>If you are looking at SUNY, look at Purchase. Their music program is one of most outstanding in the country, and there is both classical and jazz. Why Berklee and not NEC? IU and UMich will be solid for everything you want. I wish we had had a chance to visit Ithaca because it sounds great in its pr information, but gets mixed reviews from people who have visited.</p>

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<p>One caveat with Purchase. The teaching style in the vocal program is quite controversial. The head of the program has very strong ideas about technique and there is pressure for kids to be taught in a particular way - one that does not work for everyone. I think sample lessons are absolutely key in a situation like that.</p>

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<p>My D is a violin performance major at Ithaca and adores the school, for what that's worth!</p>

55

<p>Any discussion of music education has to include San Jose State. Oldest public university in the west (150+ years old), with a renowned school of education and a music-department philopsophy that only the best players should become teachers. It's an incredibly demanding program, and it's not for everybody. But it's THE pipeline for music educators throughout California. SJSU also has an up-and-coming jazz program, with Aaron Lington (baritone sax, DMA from North Texas), percussionist Joe Hodge (who used to play with Maynard Ferguson), Latin music specialist Wayne Wallace (who's also a helluva trombone player), and Frank Sumares, one of the Bay Area's top jazz piano players and a hilarious, irreverent, right-on-the-money teacher. Speaking of money, SJSU is also an incredible bargain -- about $4,000 a year for in-state tuition.</p>

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<p>I would like to elaborate on a point mentioned early by N8Ma in response to zagreen, who inquired about the Conservatoire de Paris (assumably, you are referring to Le Conservatoire National Sup</p>

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<p>My daughter wishes to attend to an american music school where she may have double major programs. She is a pianist and also wishes to study economics.
She applied to Lawrence, wheaton Ill, Bard, Depauw, Furman, Manhattanville and Mcgill.
What do you think about this schools?</p>

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<p>I live right down the road from Furman. My D is only interested in conservatory so we haven’t applied to Furman. It is a phenomenal school, highly thought of academically, beautiful campus, good music program - my D just performed with the head of their opera program who is super nice. Furman is about 20 minutes from the Appalachian Mtns and 20 minutes from downtown Greenville, SC. Greenville has a very vibrant cultural scene, lots of artists, performing venues, restaurants, etc. for the medium sized town that it is. Everyone who visits is amazed at the cultural diversity. We have HQs for BMW, Michelin and other European companies so it’s a great place for internationals to be. Should be in the mid-50s (F) temperature wise this weekend. Typical for February.</p>

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<p>Pianistdad: You have a variety of schools in that list. </p>

<p>For starters, the locations are very different. Wheaton College (Illinois) is in a safe nice upper-middle-class suburb of Chicago less than an hour’s train ride to downtown (the train station is on the edge of campus so very handy). </p>

<p>Bard is near a tiny town in rural New York and its accessibility to NYC has been the subject of past debate here on CC; in any case, it is definitely a longer commute to NYC from Bard than to Chicago from Wheaton. </p>

<p>McGill is on the edge of downtown Montreal, but is considered a very safe campus and area. It is walking distance to the cultural and commercial amenties that most people value in a large city. Montreal is obviously smaller than Chicago or New York (but many times the size of Greenville). Montreal is generally considered the most European city in North America and has its charms because of this.</p>

<p>Depauw is in the small city/large town of Greencastle, Indiana which is amid cornfields about 3/4 of an hour’s drive to Indianapolis. </p>

<p>The sizes differ: McGill is a large comprehensive university several times the size of the others. McGill would probably have as many or more graduate students than the other colleges’ total number of students. As far a economics study goes, McGill would be much more likely to have world-class faculty than the others. The downside of McGill’s size is that many undergrad classes will be much larger than they are elsewhere and a student is unlikely to develop as strong a relationship with their economics profs as they would at most of the other colleges which would only have a handful of economics profs.</p>

<p>Academically, Wheaton, Bard, Lawrence, and McGill are somewhat more selective than the others. Manhattanville would be the least selective. All would be considered “above average.”</p>

<p>Along the liberal/conservative spectrum, Wheaton would be the most conservative in terms of student lifestyle. It has a strong mandate of developing a Christian world view in its students. While the student body is much more diverse than many outsiders assume, most of the students are strongly evangelical. The campus boasts the Billy Graham Center.</p>

<p>Bard is perhaps the most liberal of the colleges on your list. It tends to have students and faculty who are freethinkers and are individualistic. </p>

<p>All of the schools have good music schools/conservatories. I think that Bard and McGill probably have more big name music faculty members. I know that both have some world-class piano instructors, but if your daughter is pursuing a serious double major with economics, her access to the top instructors at McGill might be limited. I don’t know anything about the piano instructors at the other colleges. </p>

<p>Bard actively encourages/requires a double major of its conservatory students and so your daughter may find it easier to pursue the double major there than at many other places. </p>

<p>I think that all of the schools to which your daughter has applied are reputable. Which school is best for her really depends on her strengths and on what she is looking for in a college. She certainly has a diverse set from which to choose.</p>

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<p>The Thornton School of Music was mentioned above in reference to the composition faculty. </p>

<p>Two of the most distinguished professors were not included, Morten Lauridsen, Recipient of the National Medal of Arts and Dr. Erica Muhl, a Member of the American Academy of Arts and Letters.</p>

<p>Other composition faculty members of note are: Stephen Hartke, Frederick Lesemann, Donald Crockett (Contemporary Music), Neal Desby, Dr. Veronioka Krausas, Chris Sampson
(Popular Music), Frank Ticheli and Brian Shephard (Composition & Music Technology).</p>