Music Major

<p>Wow, I'm extremely impressed and grateful for all the information you all have provided for me! It's nice to hear the harsh reality for once, instead of the constant praising from my friends and parents. You all have opened up a new way of looking at this whole college audition thing...and I've realized that the preparation I need to do is going to be a little more than everyone else and I've been slacking a little bit :) </p>

<p>Many thanks to all of you for putting time and effort into your caring responses! I really appreciate it!</p>

<p>Question: When meeting with the teachers from the different schools, do they charge you for the lessons? And if so, how much does it usually cost?</p>

<p>Also, when meeting with the music department staff, what are some questions I should ask them? Are there certain things I should look for when attending the colleges? Or other things I should do?</p>

<p>When it comes down to it...how should I decide on where to go???</p>

<p>Many of the posters on here have reported in the past that their trial lessons were free, or mostly free. Maybe it will be that way for you. That wasn't true for us. My S had three trial lessons, and only one was free, at CIM (Cincinnati). We paid $75 at CCM (Cleaveland). $150 at NEC (New England). </p>

<p>Coupled with travel expenses, application and audition fees, and more travel expenses when it was time to apply, this was an expensive time for us. Fortunately S was able to narrow his list down to limit the number of schools. (He only applied to 4 - I recommend more than that!)</p>

<p>We had a similar experience to Binx. Some charged, and some didn't. We paid $50 for the Peabody lessons, $50 for NEC (maybe it depends on the teacher), and the rest were at no cost. However, DS is now doing the same thing for prospective grad schools and the lessons have been $75-$150 each, and everyone is charging for the lessons. </p>

<p>Susan's post was great. I'm one of the ones who has been painting the "doom and gloom" picture here. I agree with her. If this is where your heart is, go for it. There are a lot of options for you to explore. But do read those Peabody articles, and see where you feel you see yourself. Many folks have read them and they are very helpful in setting a direction!!</p>

<p>Quick note on lesson costs which depend on the TEACHER, not institution, as 2 professors at a single institution charged differently. We had 2 professors provide free lessons, one giving us all 2 lessons free, 2 professors at $40, 1 professor at $70 and 1 professor at $150. </p>

<p>How do you pick a school? That's a complex and individual question, but the best answer is ROAD TRIP! Regional school fairs are nice to start your list, but to find out where you want to go means hitting the road, and it's a multi-year process.</p>

<p>This was the schedule we used. Not saying it's "perfect," but it worked for us. Even at this "leisurely" schedule, we wished we started a bit earlier.</p>

<p>IMPORTANT: Everything listed below should be done with your private teacher's input also. They are an important part of this process. Other good sources of info are HS alumni who have gone into music and maybe parents of friends who may be alumni of places you're interested in. </p>

<p>A potentially HORRIBLE source of information is your HS school's College Resource Center, UNLESS you go to a Performing Arts High School. Even though our HS consistently places 10 students at year at conservatories, they continue to be CLUELESS about this process and had to be ignored, lest you'd laugh in their face because of comments like, "Well Peabody is Johns Hopkins so better take calculus so you can get in."</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Sophomore Year - Winter of Junior Year: Start thinking about where.</p>

<ul>
<li> Search the internet</li>
<li> Visit regional school fairs, etc.</li>
</ul></li>
<li><p>January of Junior Year: Visit the schools you're interested in and have lessons with professor. Make sure that you've familiarized yourself with audition requirements and STARTED to work on at least one piece; you need not be great, but this is a good piece to play at the lesson to start a meaningful dialogue. There's usually a common audition piece for all schools so pick that one. Listen to the prof for the areas that they expect you to work on; if you like this school and prof, you'll be back for an additional lesson or two and you want to show improvement. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>There should be considerable dialogue during this lesson, probably at least 15 minutes or so for both of you to get acquainted. Ask all and any questions and make sure that you tell the professor your career aspirations and goals. Don't hesitate to ask if you're a viable candidate for that school. You may not want to hear the answer no, but it will save grief in the future. </p>

<p>Another important, and valid, question to ask is for recommendations for other schools. The music world is small and they do talk amongst themselves. You may exhibit traits that work well with Professor Jones at XXX University. A good professor will be quick to share that with you so ask!!</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Summer before Senior Year: Decide which of the schools you visited you want to attend AND start working on your audition repertoire. A rigorous summer program is also a good idea.</p></li>
<li><p>Fall of Senior Year: APPLY and visit the schools you've applied to for another lesson. In this lesson, you should play all the required repertoire pieces. You aren't expected to have them perfect yet, but do incorporate the suggestions from the first lesson into the one piece you've already played. This is IMPORTANT! It demonstrates to the professor that you can take direction. Listen to all the professor's comments and suggestions and write them down; you'll need to work on these for your audition. Do ask questions about the audition and the best way to perform and prepare.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>This is also a good visit to ask any specific questions to other areas of the institution, Financial Aid, Housing, Ensembles, etc.</p>

<ol>
<li>January/Februrary/March Senior Year: Auditions - give it your best, remembering what the professors at each institution told you.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>As others have mentioned, audition IN PERSON at the institution if at all possible. Let's face it, people are people and if you're vying for the final position with a person of equal musical talent who's totally unknown to the professor, having experience meeting with you in person multiple times can only help. Since you want to audition in person, you'll probably have to limit applications to 5 or less since there are just not that many audition dates available. </p>

<p>Funny story, but at the Parent's Meeting at Peabody on audition day, the Admissions Director asked for a show of hands on how many schools did your child have auditions at. When he saw a reasonable smattering of hands raised in response to his query of "More than 6 auditions?" he joked, "Do you people have a job?" Suffice it to say more than 2 auditions does put a strain on family finances and schedules. I wasn't at work a full week for the entire month of February. I'm fortunate to have a huge frequent flyer miles resevoir, a very understanding boss and a boss's boss who was going through the same thing with his DS, who was also auditioning. We were able to commiserate and exchange notes.</p>

<p>OK, long-winded again. Here's the executive summary.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Lesson costs will vary widely from free to $150ish. Ask professor when you schedule so there are no surprises or awkward moments.</p></li>
<li><p>Identify schools of interest and visit them for a lesson before the end of your junior year.</p></li>
<li><p>Once you've identified schools, get out your project scheduling software since this is a major project. Figure your key dates and stick to them. Key dates are application deadlines and auditions. Also try to get another lesson visit in prior to auditions.</p></li>
<li><p>Work with your private teacher on all of the above too! Their experience and recommendations are critical to the process.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck!!!</p>

<p>As far as prices go: My mother and I have not discussed how much all the applications and lessons are going to cost. I know for a fact that we will not be able to afford $150 application fees and $50 lessons for all the schools I want to visit. Is there a wavier fee for people who cannot afford stuff like this? My education is the single most important thing, and I'm willing to take out a million dollar loan if I need to...but I do not make enough in a year to pay for half of these things, nor does my mother. Is there any school out there that won't understand this? </p>

<p>Also, my mother is one of those "annoying" parents who (when sitting in on lessons) likes to correct small things...like my bow hold or something, even though she has absolutely no idea what she's talking about. Do parents have to sit in on lessons? </p>

<p>How do these lessons go? Is there an interview before the lesson, or do I just go in, take the lesson ask a few questions and leave? Will the teacher tell me if they think I'll do well at their school? Or at least tell me to practice a little more? Oh, and I'm VERY bad at playing for people. It's not that I'm not a good player, but I get so nervous and my bow gets out of control and my fingers get cold (colder than the freezer) and I make stupid mistakes that everyone (even the non musical folk) would notice. I've been very fortunate with my musical journey to not have been turned down by any orchestra or something, but colleges probably won't go as light on the nervous thing...will they?</p>

<p>Is there anything I should do/no do before auditions/lessons with the teachers?</p>

<p>Thanks again for all your help!!!</p>

<p>Imperial, this is the first that I have heard about having two lessons with the same school, plus the audition in person. Honestly, for some of these schools, it will become prohibitively expensive to do that, I fear. I take seriously the advice about live auditions, which will work to DS's benefit, since he is enormously personable and likeable, and likes to play for real people, as opposed to a camera. </p>

<p>We have already visited Peabody; we weren't planning to go back until the audition. Likewise the other schools, which we haven't even visited yet. I am thinking there is no way we can visit and audition at more than his top four schools (we do have one local one, but I am not counting that), neither financially nor time-wise. Do people really do double lessons and live, on-campus auditions at more than four?</p>

<p>Zeppelin's response was terrific. Let me add my own notes.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I would suggest that starting to look at schools spring of sophomore year is not too soon. Most serious musicians will know by then that they want to study music. Our kid learned some important things about what the programs expected at his sophomore visits...and he applied to ALL of those schools. </p></li>
<li><p>Re: conversations with teachers when you take lessons...yes, do converse. Much of this is talent, but personality plays a factor too. Our son found that the teachers inquired about other places where he was applying and they actually offered suggestions to him. Not surprisingly, a number of private teacher names came up again and again. This is one way to learn about prospective teachers.</p></li>
<li><p>Check lesson times. It is not all that easy to schedule lessons and this does take some planning. You will need to be somewhat flexible with the planned dates of your trips if you want to have lessons with specific teachers. Remember that many of these teachers are members of major symphonies and have obligations other than their teaching jobs.</p></li>
<li><p>Many of the private teachers do not give lessons during the audition period. Check with the specific teachers early on to find out their calendar constraints.</p></li>
<li><p>Once you choose the schools get a BIG desk calendar. Write in your obligations (e.g. SATs, school concerts, etc). Then get the audition schedules for all of your schools out. Write in the dates that you plan to audition...hope that there aren't any overlaps. We hit it lucky...DS's didn't overlap at all, and coincidentally two schools in the DC area had auditions the same weekend, one school on Saturday, and one on Monday. How lucky was that?? However, in another instance, we ended up going to a city twice...once at the beginning of February and once at the end. Also check with your school regarding absences. Between auditions and music festivals, DS missed more than 20 days of school his senior year. In his case, his were excused absences, but some schools are not quite so liberal. There were weeks on end when he did not attend school for more than three days...and he had a ton of work to make up. Better to be prepared than to be surprised.</p></li>
<li><p>Use any professional memberships, AAA for hotel discounts...or friends for housing. Remember that you cannot practice in a hotel room. However, DS found in all cases that if he spoke to hotel management, they could find him a conference room or space to practice. But he could not do this after 9 in the evening.</p></li>
<li><p>Your youth orchestra conductor may also have some ideas for you. I agree, the school guidance department is less than helpful. Our GC told our son not to bother applying to the school he is attending "because he would never get accepted". Well..he did, and with a substantial performance merit award. </p></li>
<li><p>This one is important....try to schedule your first audition or two with your safety schools. Save your most competitive audition until near the end (not dead last, but close to it). That way, you will have a clear idea of the audition process and will not be rattled by the process itself. AND keep an eye out for deadlines. Some schools have earlier audition deadlines for those who are seeking merit aid.</p></li>
<li><p>Dress to impress. Do this for your trial lessons, interviews, visits, and audition. We saw kids who looked like they were going to a club to hear a rock band. Not impressive. For girls, plan to wear nice black slacks and a black or white top that is nice. My son wore black dockers, a white shirt and a tie to everything. Simply put...wear concert dress and look good. Make sure your clothes fit well...you don't want to be uncomfortable at your audition.</p></li>
<li><p>Have fun. This may sound impossible, but my son actually had a lot of fun during this process. He still keeps up an email correspondance with a couple of the private teachers at the schools he did NOT attend. He met some nice people along the way (saw a lot of the same folks at different audition weekends, particularly at the conservatories).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>NBStar,</p>

<p>All of the information so far is excellent. As the mother of a violinist, I would like to encourage you to just practice and prepare for your audition. The audition is the most important aspect of your being accepted into a truly great music school. You have a great advantage in that you are a viola player. It is not nearly as competitive as violin. You asked the question, "What should determine your decision?" and it really comes down to the teacher. It is crucial that you meet with and have at least one lesson with a teacher before making a decision. Good luck!</p>

<p>Daughter did double lessons at Oberlin and live auditions at Oberlin, NEC, BU (on a separate trip from NEC), Peabody and Curtis. She would have done more lessons at NEC, BU and Peabody, but she knew many of the teachers at those programs through summer programs and had already had either a lesson or a masterclass with them. She was one of the lucky ones who was not charged for introductory lessons anywhere.</p>

<p>Yes, it is an expensive project, both in time and money. Starting off with the wrong teacher or the wrong school could mean repeating the audition process the next year and perhaps losing enough credits to make an extra semester necessary. That would be even more expensive in both respects.</p>

<p>I have written a series of articles for another web site that details the process that my daughter and I went through in finding what I believe has turned out to be the right school for her. Among several other topics, the articles include observations on introductory lessons, auditions and selecting schools. CC's policies prevent me from posting a link to them here, but I will be happy to respond to any inquiries sent in email. (My PM mailbox is nearly always full, so you stand a much better chance of reaching me by email.)</p>

<p>Great Conversation! Unfortunately, I never realized this place existed until after the fact...</p>

<p>Some clarifications...</p>

<ol>
<li><p>We didn't double lessons at every school, only the one DD wanted the most and the local one. Would have doubled at another, but couldn't organize it.</p></li>
<li><p>Idea to do early audtions at safety schools excellent. AAMOF, if your "safeties" are smaller schools, you can probably set up private audtions. We did that with our safety, a place we didn't even have a lesson at, and had the audition in late October just to get one under our belt.</p></li>
<li><p>NBSTAR: Ah, Stage Parents! In our case, only Dad could go on auditions since Mom made daughter nervous. For your lesson, I would suggest that you ask Mom not to come in. Every professor we've had lessons with has invited the parents into the lesson (we declined), but then invited us in for a brief chat at the end so we could ask our questions. That should be more than adquate for your Mom.</p></li>
<li><p>NBSTAR: Nerves are part of the game. That's way, IMHO, the in-person lessons prior may be an edge. If you brick an audition, when they profs discuss your performance, the person who gave you a lesson can always chime in, "I've heard her play that passage perfectly."</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I will add my 2 cents. Son had lessons at 8 different schools and was never charged. (He is a cellist.)</p>

<p>You should definitely check out some of the schools in the midwest. This will cut down your travel costs quite a bit. I would suggest that you look at Indiana, Lawrence, St. Olaf, Northern Illinois, Baldwin-Wallace, UW-Madison, and the Cincinatti College Conservatory of Music (CCM). This will give you a variety of schools of different sizes, costs and competivitness. </p>

<p>When you go for your lessons, ask your mother to wait outside. Also, ask the teacher to give you an honest assessment of you ability. It may not be what you want to hear but will help you make better decisions. </p>

<p>After you have had a couple of lessons at some of the schools closer to your home and get some feedback from those teachers, you can decide if you want to make the trip to some of the major conservatories on your list.</p>

<p>Lots of good suggestions. Again, we did not always do the recommended method, having not even discovered this website before some applications were due and having little idea about how such things worked. We could not afford to fly our son around the country for auditions and lessons, since his schools were all far away. What he did was visit his four top choices after acceptances, taking lessons with the teachers then. It really helped him make up his mind. Again, visiting and lessons earlier would be really helpful, but don't feel it is essential if you just don't have the money. Do the close ones, but don't feel you MUST do it all.</p>

<p>Re: waivers for fees...Many colleges have waivers for the application fees. However, I do not think it is likely that you will get a waiver for a private lesson where the instructor charges. When DS was making his appointments, DS politely asked what the cost would be for the lesson. He did not ask IF there was going to be a charge. His assumption was that there would be one. Try to make your arrangements for a lesson through the music department. More than likely you will be referred to the viola teacher(s). You certainly do not have to take a lesson from a teacher before you apply...but we know folks who eliminated schools from their application list because they didn't "click" with the teacher. I would say that it would not be a good decision to enroll at a school without first having a lesson with the teacher on your instrument.</p>

<p>If you don't have the kind of free time to travel cross country and visit every school on the map, I have a better suggestion. I went to the Aspen Music Festival twice, and there I met several professors from big name schools, and talked to students from almost every music school in the country.</p>

<p>Attending something like Aspen, Interlochen, or Tanglewood is a really good way to gather advice for applying to schools, because almost everyone there is going through it or has already done it.</p>