Musical Theatre and Calculus?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>I am about to enter my junior year of high school. It is course selection time and of course i'm all signed up for drama and show choir. The current battle i'm having with my parents is math. I tested into Algebra 1 honors in 7th grade, took Geometry honors in 8th grade, took Algebra 2 honors last year, and took PreCalculus with Trig honors this year. Next year i'm supposed to take AP AB Calculus, but I really don't want to. It would be a lot of work and I'm already swamped with shows and choir performances. I would rather take an additional choir class, or a class my school offers that is geared towards service learning. </p>

<p>Will only taking math for 2 years of high school (even though i will have 4 math credits) stop me from getting into a musical theatre program? I'm interested in a BFA, and atleast conservatory-style, if not a full on conservatory. I have a 4.2 weighted GPA and by the end of high school I will have taken 5 or 6 AP classes.</p>

<p>So, really, how important is it that I take calculus?</p>

2

<p>I hate to say this, but as long as you have the minim course work required then you are fine. Talent is the overriding factor when it comes to admittance. Again you must have the minimum requirements, but you should be more concerned with your audition at this point than with your grades because it looks like you are good there. Also there are exceptions to this rule, like NYU and UCLA.</p>

3

<p>Because I do not know what state you live in…the requirement to graduate may dictate another year of math. You may wish to double check with your guidance counselor for specifics.
As far as the rigor of your classes, and whether you will be successful in securing a place in the college of your choice…auditions play a large part, as well as the courses you take while in high school. If you want to include schools like NYU and UCLA or???, then you will want to continue to include courses that reflect your academic abilities in conjunction with your performances.
~G’Luck
APOL-a Mum</p>

4

<p>Is there an option to take calculus as a regular or honors class in your school, not AP? This may be a compromise and will get you a third math class in high school.</p>

5

<p>As a parent of a h.s. senior who has just finished auditioning for 14 MT university programs, many in conservatories, I would highly caution you against dropping math classes in high schools after only 2 years. Even though you have been advanced in math, your earlier courses usually appear on your transcript only as elective credits, not as high school math courses. Most universities will not even consider a student’s general application without 3 years of math in high school, and you most be admitted to the university BEFORE you are admitted to the MT program. In addition, many excellent MT programs, like Michigan, NYU, Elon, Otterbein, etc. are housed in universities that have extremely HIGH academic standards, and it is highly possible that without 3 years of high school math, you would completely lock yourself out of consideration for those programs. Believe me, among the 1000’s! of current applicants for MT programs, there are plenty who have your high gradepoint average AND your talent, and you need to have every possible edge to compete. In addition, some of these schools have costs as high as $54,000 per year, and unless your family is independently wealthy, you will need to be considered for financial scholarships and possibly the money that comes with honor programs to be able to afford an acceptance from any of them. </p>

<p>In addition, as you will find looking at all these threads, there is a high possibility currently that you may not be accepted to the top schools of your choice, and may find yourself in a strong BA theatre program instead. You don’t want to have that possibility ruled out through the lack of a single course! There are way, way more students auditioning currently than there are places for in BFA programs, and you need to leave yourself with many options.</p>

<p>My daughter, like you, was advanced 2 years in math early on. She, and we, made the decision to have her take AP Calculus her junior year, along with her 3rd year AP science course, and then not take math and science, but continue with AP English and history courses (as 4 of each are usually required by universities) her senior year. We are very glad we did that, as it lightened her load for all her absences due to auditioning, but still allowed her to get the highest possible scholarship offers from a number of colleges she applied to.</p>

<p>To make this all real: she has applied to 16 schools (2 nonaudition), has been admitted academically to all she has heard from, but has only been admitted to the BFA MT program of 1, with 5 left to hear from this month. It is an extremely daunting process. You will need the FULL support of your parents (not to mention financial) and it may be best to abide by their wishes at this point, in addition to keeping the most options open for yourself.</p>

6

<p>One more thing, use College Board to look up the minimum high school requirements for many of the colleges posted in the title board at the top of this discussion. I think you will find that most of them require 3 years of h.s. math. I would also encourage you to contact some by phone and get the opinion from the horses’ mouths!</p>

7

<p>As someone who frequently review transcripts for college and graduate school applications, if you have through pre-calculus completed on your transcript you should be fine with math requirements to get out of high school and into most colleges. However, here are my thoughs some of which I shared with my DD as she was planning. You will almost certainly have to take math at college, if you take AP calculus in HS you will be done with your math requirement and free up time for other courses in college. This also saves money at college. My D did 5 years of math in HS (hating every minute of it) but as she now says, she never has to have another mathematical though again.</p>

8

<p>I recommend talking with your high school counselor about your options. My daughter was also advanced 2 years and took pre-calc in her sophomore year. She also had no interest in calculus. Instead, she is taking AP Statistics. Your school may also have other math options besides AP Calc, and still get that 3rd year of math on your transcripts (which I also highly recommend).</p>

9

<p>I second what Christie said about the possibility of wishing you had those if you end up needing or wanting a good BA program in a school with picky academic requirements.</p>

<p>The school my D loves more than any is a BA program and academics = money. I know that most everyone wants the well known, hard to get into lottery BFA programs but my D loves this one so much that she’d take this one over any of them, she really would. If her grades had been higher we wouldn’t be sweating the talent money so much. Sigh. If she hadn’t taken the math and hard classes that she did take, she wouldn’t have probably even gotten academic acceptance at either this school or her number two pick which is also a BA program.
(but they are REALLY good BA programs and don’t offer a BFA so you don’t have to worry about any stigma. Not that schools who offer both EVER admit there’s stigma. But that’s not always what ya hear from the kids themselves)</p>

<p>It may not need to be calculus, but you do need respectable courses. My D elected to take College Algebra as a dual credit course instead of calculus and so far that seems to be working fine for her. It will probably be accepted at her university and then she won’t have to take it there, YAY, but it was still considered academically rigorous and was weighted.</p>

10

<p>Thanks everyone! This has been really helpful. Yes, my school offers AP stat and no, it doesn’t offer any calculus that isn’t AP. I’ve seen my high school transcript and my middle school math is on there, and i do have the proper amount of math credits to graduate. I think i’ll probably end up taking calculus, and I’ll hate every second of it, but if it gets me into college, I guess that’s what i’ll have to do.</p>

11

<p>I think you are very wise to continue through Calculus for so many reasons, including all mentioned above. When it comes to finding the best MT program possible, flexibility is a HUGE asset! </p>

<p>Higher-level academics will open up schools that will otherwise be absolutely unavailable, and scholarship money that may bring some costly schools within reach. I think soozievt mentioned that even some BFA and Conservatory programs with lower admissions standards may look to academic rigor in HS as a predictor of success in their programs, and you’ll want every little scale-tipping factor in your favor. </p>

<p>Also – and this may never become relevant to you – in my experience with switching from being a young Theatre professional to becoming an Engineer later in life, I found that post-Calculus math can really transform from drudgery into an art form. Often the people who LOVE higher math absolutely hated the foundation courses through Calculus. It’s like the difference between learning to conjugate verbs versus reading poetry in a foreign language. </p>

<p>Plus, if you continue to push yourself through HS, you’ll be in great mental shape to hit college!</p>

12

<p>I don’t want to be too contrary to all the great advice you’ve already received here, but I would say that calculus probably isn’t necessary. My son is advanced in math and completed his four required years of high school math his junior year, ending in a pre-calculus/trig class. But being good at math doesn’t mean he enjoys it. He decided not to take any math courses his senior year, as he felt he was never going to end up in a college major or profession that required calculus. As a senior he is highly ranked in his class and received an excellent score on the math portion of his SAT and as a result has had no problem getting into any of the nine schools he applied to academically–including some with extremely high academic standards. You sound extremely bright, and if you did well on the PSAT and have a high ranking in your high school class, I would say don’t take a class you despise, but use this opportunity to take another high school course that will align more with your passions. Your high school counselor knows your situation best and should be your best source of advice, but my son has not missed calculus one bit this year, and he will have a lot of other AP and dual-college credits to give him plenty of flexibility when he gets to college this fall. I hate to see you spending time in a class you would not enjoy when you could be taking something else that fulfills you much more and will prepare you better for your college plans. Just my two cents.</p>

13

<p>If not calculus, then a different math, perhaps: the thing is not necessarily, IMO, calculus or not calculus, but enough higher math in case as MomCares and I both stress that academics can end up being the gatekeeper for various reasons.</p>

<p>You might pick a few schools that will probably be on your list, including BA programs, at academically pickier schools, and just see how many years of higher math and what kind they require. In my D’s case, college algebra was enough and she didn’t have to take trig, but she had 5 years of upper level math, all either PreAP, AP, or Dual Credit. Which she did hate. But better in high school than in college, sez I, when scholarships could be riding on that DAMN MATH CLASS!!!</p>

14

<p>My D will have taken geometry through algebra II by the end of her junior year and then wants to take personal finance for her senior year. I really never see her using any pre-calc or beyond to be quite honest. Are there some schools that will not consider you because of the type of math classes you have or have not taken? or is it just having 4 years of math</p>

15

<p>Obviously academically selective schools like Northwestern, Brown and Yale will care about the specifics of the academic course load, but I’m not sure if others will. Possibly NYU and UMich?</p>

16

<p>My experience is that it is the number of years of math, and the rigor, not necessarily which specific classes.</p>

<p>I would be very careful, though, that if someone wants a particular college, to be sure of that BEFORE making final decisions about high school classes, but of all the 15 or so we looked at, it was just how many classes and how hard they were. After all there are only so many maths once you get past algebra 2.</p>

<p>I really can’t imagine a school laughing at someone with 3 years of algebra, a year of statistics, and a year of precal or trig ~ all of them AP - and saying “HA ha!! You didn’t take CALCULUS so NO SCHOOL FOR YOU!!”</p>

<p>But again, I’d be real sure to find out for certain at a few schools. My D actually (this is a long long story I won’t go into) ended up with a year of regular algebra, a year of preAP geometry 1, AP geometry 2, and dual credit college algebra. Her ACT scores were okay but math was her weakest one and even with those less than stellar math stats, not one school has given her any flak about them and the most academically picky one on her list has still waived her college algebra requirement. (though on account of her ACT,not her dc class. Everyone else will take her dc class though.)</p>

<p>I imagine if she were going into engineering or trying for an Ivy it might be more of an issue but I really think for most of the MT program schools, as long as you took a bunch of math and it was hard, that will work. hah.</p>

17

<p>You really have to look at each school’s requirements if you are just looking at the “minimums.” I was recently surprised to find that pretty much every NC school is going to require a “higher” math (something that uses Alg II as a prereq) because that is the new, state-mandated requirement for high school graduation. I don’t know if Consumer Math or Personal Finances would count as rigorous enough, although I’ll bet it’s WAY more practical and useful for 90% of students!</p>

<p>Some other schools, even some pretty academically selective ones, only list 3 years as “required” but from what everyone here seems to be saying, that’s almost irrelevant, because since they very likely will have plenty of academic-minded and very talented kids to choose from, the ones who, even though just as talented (but probably not MORE talented) didn’t pursue the absolutely most rigorous math and science curriculum available will be placed at the bottom of the pile. </p>

<p>It’s almost enough to scare us into forcing our D into Pre-Calc next year, but I think in the end we’re going to resign ourselves to the fact that she’s not going to get into one of those schools. For us it was a quality of life issue. This will be our last year to spend with her, possibly ever, and I don’t want to spend it fighting with her as she sobs every day over math homework. Three years of that has been quite enough, thank you. I want to really enjoy our last year with her at home, so if that means there will be a couple of doors closed to her, then so be it. She will end up at the school she’s meant to attend no matter what!</p>

18

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<p>The only official AP courses in Math are AP Calculus AB, AP Calculus BC, and AP Statistics.</p>

<p>I don’t see how someone’s entire HS math coursework can be AP (first quote). </p>

<p>I also don’t know what AP Geometry is (second quote) and never heard of it and is it not listed as one of the AP courses or exams by the College Board.</p>

19

<p>Tracyvp- When I was looking at NC schools, I noticed NC School of the Arts was an exception to the higher math rule. I also noticed that the rule didn’t apply to private schools like Elon. What amused me was that if you look at the SAT scores for public schools in NC that have MT programs, their Math SAT scores were not particularly impressive, for all the math they had to take. I think Florida is on a similar path as NC, but again, not the private schools. IU also snuck in an extra math requirement for folks applying this year.</p>