<p>Good Morning, </p>
<p>I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the graduate musicianship test at Mannes that is part of the audition? Or alternatively if you might have information on tests at other institutions you might have experienced during the audition process. I called the admissions office but they are rather vague on what it might contain. </p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>They’re giving the tests as part of audition process for grad students? I know that some schools are doing this, but I’m not at all sure that it makes a lot of sense considering the tight time frames. Most schools admit first and then do the testing as classes begin, but perhaps there will be a shift to this other pattern. The “beginning of school” testing is rigorous and took large blocks of time- music theory, music history and ear training, so I’d take a guess that your son’s exams will be similar, yet shorter. I found a link to the testing given at NYU Steinhardt that may be of some help:
<a href=“http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/students/dates/exams”>http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/students/dates/exams</a></p>
<p>Yeah, I think my daughter’s notifications for grad school auditions mentioned taking music theory, history and other tests, too. </p>
<p>(Altho I suspect they are placement tests, not part of the actual audition.)</p>
<p>For Rice-Shepherd: The master’s level exams in Music History and Music Theory are administered in
conjunction with auditions. “While the audition is the most important factor, the graduate admission committee also gives careful consideration to the transcripts, letters of recommendation and the exams of each applicant.” All MM applicants should expect to spend up to 3 hours total on the music history and music theory exams. They allowed 1 hour for an online music history test. The music theory test is taken on the day of the audition, and students are allowed 2 hours.</p>
<p>Looks like there are also theory and history graduate requirements at Colburn. Sample tests can be found on their website (<a href=“http://www.colburnschool.edu/page.cfm?p=1899”>http://www.colburnschool.edu/page.cfm?p=1899</a>)</p>
<p>I can see many sides to this and it will be interesting to see how it eventually settles in. While giving the tests on the same days as the auditions, the schools then have a much better handle on the musicianship of the applicant and what remedial classes would be needed. It also means that kids might have to take similar exams several times at different auditions. That will make for some really long days.
On the other hand, not all undergrad experiences are created equal and I know a number of kids who couldn’t pass those tests even with weeks allowed to study for them- that’s why there are so many first year grads sitting in those “make-up” classes held during the first semester. I know that this is more prevelent among VP students because their undergrad experience is much more varied with some taking all of the classes that their instrumetal peers did and others not having to have taken that route so they play “catch up” later on.
Good luck to all and safe travels.</p>
<p>Okay so I talked to my daughter last night and it turns out that I was wrong–not all of these tests are placement tests. I don’t really understand the thinking behind this, but at some schools, including Colburn, the tests will have an effect on admissions results. My daughter has a friend who was admitted for a different degree than she applied for last year–she applied for a master’s but was admitted for an artist’s diploma, presumably because she either failed or maybe sailed past (?) the placement test. If they deny MM admission to people because they score poorly on theory-- does that make sense? Shouldn’t they just assign more theory courses? At Juilliard most MM students from other institutions end up having to take theory and music history. I think this is in part because theory is taught differently at different institutions. And in part because you tend to finish your theory sequence long before you audition for MM placement. If you’re coming off a gap year, fine, you can go study theory, but if you’re a senior doing auditions and preparing a recital, plus taking a lot of other classes, there is not a lot of leftover time. </p>
<p>It was my understanding that at Colburn they don’t want to have graduate students having to take a lot of remedial courses–maybe it’s a staffing or scheduling issue, I don’t know. It’s a small school and only recently added the M.M. so perhaps they’re not set up for remedial classes. I agree that for most undergrads, the theory sequence (and maybe history) sequence is done prior to senior year–and so not as fresh in the mind. However, my S, who did a double degree and had to pack many credits in every semester, is in one history and one theory class this semester–so he most likely will have some gaps when trying to take the musicianship tests so early. He is really hoping none of them affect admission decisions, but I guess you never know. </p>
<p>Yeah-- my daughter did well in those courses when she took them but she doesn’t have time to review, and if you’re not a theory head to begin with, most of that stuff isn’t going to stick with you for a placement test, not without substantial review prior to the test. I don’t know how she could time studying it because she’s already got too much on her plate. </p>
<p>D spent a lot of time in January studying for those Rice tests as she went for her MM auditions.</p>
<p>Agreed, Glassharmonica, especially since so many kids take a gap year between degrees because trying to
“do it all” during senior year can be exhausting. I’ve known a number of students who go the Artist Diploma (or similar) route because they can’t pass the theory exams and don’t want to cram or take the extra classes, and that works just fine for them. One of the finest young string players I’ve ever heard had extreme difficulty passing theory and history sequences but was winning international competitions even as a freshman!
D was not a “natural” at theory by any means (!), but she worked her butt off and pulled all As in the sequence- she studied like a fiend for that and the music history exams that were given before grad school classes began and it paid off. The difference was that she was able to make the time during the summer to study. I don’t think that it’s fair to use those tests as entrance criteria just because of the extreme variation among undergrad training.</p>
<p>My kid can’t study like a fiend because she’s got a full course load, 4 part time jobs, and is in two studios for her major. In addition she’s trying to pull together an audition on a new instrument and a senior recital for her current instrument. She barters babysitting for secondary lessons, which takes more time. She barely has time to get enough sleep. So if she gets shut out of a program for a low theory score (with a 3.9 GPA at one of the top conservatories in the world)-- well, I guess that’s their loss. </p>
<p>But seriously-- she told me that she’d heard a concern that an AD is looked down upon when applying for teaching positions, which require an MM. So that might affect with school she chooses (er, assuming she gets in anywhere, knock wood!)</p>
<p>An actual degree is preferred over the certificate programs, but when is winning gold medals in international competitions, I don’t think anyone cares if he has a piece of paper with letters on it! Singers often pursue the AD after getting their masters because it’s a way to keep studying with a teacher while hitting the YAP audition circuit.</p>
<p>Glassharmonica. D “studied like a fiend” during the month before the exams were given, which meant that it was AUGUST! Had she had to take those same tests when she was auditioning, it would have been extremely difficult since she was finishing an opera, preparing the lead in another and getting her Senior Recital together, all while working 3 PT jobs and maintaining her grades- so I hear you!
That’s precisely why I am saying that giving those tests at the same time as the audition is ridiculous. Since not all of those auditioning will be accepted and not all accepted will matriculate, it’s a colossal waste of time all around. Our girls both attend(ed) top conservatories whose curriculum is well known so they “come with” a certifiable pedigree, if you will. It seems to me that if a kid auditions well and has good grades, if they have “deficiencies” and are willing to make them up with remedial courses, then that can be taken care of during the course of the master’s program.
These kids work really hard and heaping unnecessary stress upon them should be avoided.</p>
<p>I definitely agree on all of the above. My son with two majors, a solo performance with a symphony coming up in a week, auditions, summer festival auditions, etc., etc., is overwhelmed and exhausted–and the semester is barely underway. He messaged me today that he really didn’t want to head off to his audition this weekend as he is so completely stressed and falling behind in school due to missing classes last week with auditions. He finally went ahead and got on the train to go at the last minute, but I am so concerned about him. Studying for musicianship tests at other schools simply cannot even fit into the picture. Yes, if he doesn’t get into a program because of the test scores (or for any other reason, in my humble opinion actually), it is most certainly their loss. </p>
<p>Also, one definitely will need a MM for teaching positions nowadays–even a DMA if it is a college position. I can see a AD after the MM to prepare for orchestra positions or solo careers, but I really feel an MM is becoming more and more necessary.</p>
<p>Ohh, I get it Mezzo’sM. Yes, my kid would definitely cram for placement tests in the summer. I am on the same page as you. I was surprised to hear what happened in the case of her friend, who is a terrific player and was accepted to every top program (so not going to Colburn was not a big heartbreak for her.) Interesting-- if my daughter is only admitted to AD programs (or if she doesn’t get enough financial aid at MM programs) I’m not sure what route to take, as she definitely plans to teach (she teaches currently through a program at her conservatory.) </p>
<p>Oh, haha, I was busy agreeing with Glassharmonica while cross-posting with Mezzo’sMom. Agree with her too!</p>