musing...Yale

<p>OP,</p>

<p>I’m sorry for the loss of your father. It sounds like you have some great memories of him. I’m so glad my dad’s still around. He was an engineering physicist and has such wonderful stories to tell. He’s an agnostic Jew, though, so different backgrounds. :-)</p>

<p>I’m also a Christian homeschooler and up until my son’s junior year, I thought he would be going to a Christian school such as Grove City, Wheaton, or Taylor. But, he had so much college math and physics in high school, it was impossible for him to go. Even a math professor at one of the schools said he needed to go to a secular school. It wasn’t in our plans but was in God’s plans.</p>

<p>My son was accepted to two Ivies but ultimately chose a different school, MIT. The really good thing is that there are strong Christian communities on many campuses and the key seems to be to get plugged into them early in addition to a local church. I will be praying as often as I remember that my son would own his faith and grow in his faith in Christ while at a secular school.</p>

<p>It sounds like your son has a good strong mind of his own and want a Christian college. I assume he’s looking at Baylor (not necessarily Christian, per se, but conservative) and LeTourneau? I don’t know other good Christian colleges in Texas but I wish your son the best. :-)</p>

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<p>That’s exactly what I was thinking. :)</p>

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<p>Baylor is affiliated with a Christian denomination – Southern Baptist specifically.</p>

<p>[Southern</a> Baptist Convention - Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.sbc.net/colleges.asp]Southern”>http://www.sbc.net/colleges.asp)</p>

<p>(Is there a definition of “Christian” being used here that is not the obvious one? Not sure how TCU and Baylor could be considered “not Christian”.)</p>

<p>ucbalumnus,</p>

<p>Yes, in my case. I look at a college’s mission statement, history, and core values, and see if they align with the central core doctrines of historic Christianity (and I am speaking of Christianity through the Reformation and then speaking about Protestant colleges, though conservative Catholic colleges such as Belmont Abbey have mission statements that may reflect a supreme focus on Christ, the centrality of the Gospel, and the supremacy of scripture)</p>

<p>Here are several to compare:</p>

<p>[Belmont</a> Abbey College, Charlotte NC - Vision Statement - Liberal Arts:Catholic Benedictine heritage](<a href=“http://www.belmontabbeycollege.edu/Visionstatement/visionStatement.aspx]Belmont”>http://www.belmontabbeycollege.edu/Visionstatement/visionStatement.aspx)</p>

<p>[GCC:</a> About GCC](<a href=“http://www.gcc.edu/About_GCC.php]GCC:”>Our Story - Grove City College)</p>

<p>[Mission</a> - Taylor University](<a href=“http://www.taylor.edu/about/mission/]Mission”>http://www.taylor.edu/about/mission/)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.grace.edu/files/uploads/webfm/pdfs/covenant.pdf[/url]”>http://www.grace.edu/files/uploads/webfm/pdfs/covenant.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[Baylor</a> University || About Baylor || Read Our Mission Statement](<a href=“About Baylor | Baylor University”>About Baylor | Baylor University)</p>

<p>[Texas</a> Christian University](<a href=“http://www.tcu.edu/at-a-glance.asp]Texas”>Quick Facts | About Texas Christian University)</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.letu.edu/opencms/opencms/_Other-Resources/_Community-and-Media/about-letourneau/mission-and-vision.html[/url]”>http://www.letu.edu/opencms/opencms/_Other-Resources/_Community-and-Media/about-letourneau/mission-and-vision.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Perhaps you could say that you are looking for a “Christian school with a religious mission, curriculum, and/or environment”? (Of course, a devout student looking for such may want to pay attention to denominational affiliation if the school is not non-denominational.)</p>

<p>Momknowsbest3–</p>

<p>Also, so sorry about the loss of your dad. My dad has been gone 23 years, never met my kids… It is such a loss. Getting the Yale catalog juxtaposed with a recent loss (and even last few years would be recent) would get one to musing about the past…Oh, and it’s Father’s Day! It seems your son has strong ideas about what he wants from college-- good for him for having a direction and focus, so no comments there about pros and cons of different approaches to the college search process.</p>

<p>Just wanted to alert you to some books about family members having grown up with a parent with mental illness, especially during an era when it was either not recognized or acknowledged, in case these might be of interest to you or others here : The Years of Silence Are Past: My Father’s Life with Bipolar Disorder. Also, Breaking the Silence: Mental Health Professionals Disclose Their Personal and Family Experiences of Mental Illness, both by Stephen P. Hinshaw. </p>

<p>(Sorry not to be able to have underlined the titles…)</p>

<p>Wishing you well.</p>

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<p>I will not argue with ‘liberal’, but I don’t agree about the ‘pressure’. True, many of the students are high functioning and highly driven, but that is an intrinsic to the students, and I doubt that internal ‘pressure’ could be avoided by simply choosing a different college. If anything, Yale tries hard to create a supportive, lower pressure environment for these highly driven students. </p>

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<p>Does sound like a good fit for Yale.</p>

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<p>Sounds like he had some nice memories of his time there. </p>

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<p>Perhaps there is a reason you are musing… perhaps you want to know what your father would really want for your son…</p>

<p>When people refer to a “Christian” college, they usually mean a school at which more-or-less evangelical Protestant Christian doctrines are incorporated into the curriculum and campus life. It doesn’t usually mean Catholic colleges, or colleges that are affiliated with Christian denominations but are largely secular in terms of curriculum and campus life. Note that this shouldn’t be taken to suggest that Catholics aren’t Christians, or that other schools are anti-Christian, or anything of the sort. It’s simply a general term that people use to apply to a certain type of college, on a spectrum that runs from, say, Bob Jones University to Wheaton College in Illinois.</p>

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<p>It’s not a term that “people” use–it’s a term that some very narrow minded Evangelical Protestants use. I have not so fond memories of being told in college that I was not a “Christian” because I didn’t believe in the Trinity because I thought that Mary, the mother of Christ, was divine. It took a few minutes for me to realize that this was not intended as a joke.</p>

<p>The usage of Christian to mean only Evangelical Protestants is despicable to those of us who are Christians but not Evangelical Protestants. </p>

<p>As a Catholic who attended an Ivy–not Yale, BTW-I found the OP’s message absolutely sickening. I’m sure her dad would be very, very disappointed by having such a daughter. </p>

<p>I’m sure of one thing: Christ was not a conservative.</p>

<p>BTW, I know several born again Christians who attended Yale. Some are very good friends of myself and/or my offspring. They did learn, however, that using the term “Christian” to refer to a very small segment of those who believe in the Trinity and the divinity of Our Lord was thoughtless.</p>

<p>I suspect I’ll get flak from my message. I have no problem if the moderators delete it…as long as the OP’s message is also deleted. I believe it is a violation of the TOS.</p>

<p>jonri, I was a born again Christian who attended Yale myself. However, I am capable of understanding that referring to a segment of colleges as Christian colleges is not the same thing as thinking that Catholics aren’t Christians. Perhaps it would be better if there were a different term in use–“Evangelical Christian Colleges,” maybe–but there isn’t. It’s too bad that it cause so much misunderstanding.</p>

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I don’t want to give you flak but I am confused by your post. As far as I know Catholics do believe in the Trinity and don’t believe Mary was divine. At least that’s what I’ve always assumed as a Cathoic who has in fact attended a church named Holy Trinity. In my understanding Catholics venerate Mary but not as an equal to God, or as someone with self-derived supernatural powers. </p>

<p>Or are you saying those are beliefs some Christians have about Catholic dogma?
Or that you personally don’t believe n those things and were assailed for that?</p>

<p>I want to emphasize I don’t want to debate any of this at all. Debating religious beliefs is nuts IMO. I’m just trying to understand your post. And hopefully not fully derail this thread.</p>

<p>My son’s best friend is at Yale, he’s very accomplished, but the most laid back kid I know. My son visited him last year and complained to me that I should have taken him to visit Yale early in high school, because he liked it so much and would have gotten better grades! Sorry, I took him to our Harvard reunions, but apparently Yale is much nicer than Harvard. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Can’t help posting this today: my Dad died 5 years before my son was born, and it is truly the great regret of my life that they could not know each other. My father didn’t even graduate high school - his father had a heart attack and he quit school to work full time to support his mother and sisters. He would have been over-the-moon proud to see my son at Yale. </p>

<p>Happy Father’s Day to the dads on CC.</p>

<p>Relevant to this discussion is William F. Buckley, Jr’s (Yale, 1950) book, GOD AND MAN AT YALE. This was the original lament about Yale’s imposition of a liberal ideology, and became a seminal work of modern conservatism. Despite his criticisms, Buckley fully emerged himself at Yale–Skull and Bones, Conservative Union, and captain of the debate team, which, no doubt provided some educational basis for his legendary debating skills.</p>

<p>George Will called the book a lover’s quarrel with his alma mater. </p>

<p>I don’t think a conservative would have any problem finding his or her place at Yale, and I’d think a bright self-assured conservative would relish the challenge.</p>

<p>Ah yes, Bill Buckley. I used to hear him talk sometimes. I also had friends in the Yale Political Union’s Party of the Right. I knew some of his family. Used to get high with one. He was a smart guy. </p>

<p>That’s about all I have to say that’s nice about him. My dad was a regular viewer of his show and subscribed to his magazine for many years, though his personal politics were substantially different.</p>

<p>He was a racist, bluntly so for many years. He was an anti-semite, again bluntly so for many years. He was closed-minded and judgmental. He was full of scorn for anyone and anything that didn’t fit into his world view. His methods were ad hominem; derision coupled with rampant misrepresentation of the beliefs and words of others was his main method. I would prefer not to get into how that world view was derived because many people would find that offensive.</p>

<p>As a Catholic who attended an Ivy–not Yale, BTW-I found the OP’s message absolutely sickening. I’m sure her dad would be very, very disappointed by having such a daughter</p>

<p>WHY?? Oh my goodness… why… I worked my entire life for my dad’s approval… Why do you think he would be sickened… I just said I wished he were here for me to talk to about this… He never, ever even mentioned my going to an ivy league school. Never talked to me about it. He was thrilled that I went to Baylor. I never even knew Yale or Harvard was an option for me… ok, it wasn’t. I’m not that smart. But, this would kill me. Why is he disappointed… Went to his grave today… I miss him. Why>>> I don’t want him to be disappointed.</p>

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<p>As a Catholic, I agree 100% with what you have said are the beliefs of our Church.</p>

<p>One of my college classmates was an Evangelical Protestant. I used that term; she, like Hunt, the OP and at least one other poster in this thread, called themselves “Christian” and did not include Catholics as “Christian.” When I asked “Why?” she gave me the explanation in my earlier post. As I said before, it took a few minutes before I realized she wasn’t joking. She was simply ignorant of Catholic beliefs. </p>

<p>Again, for any denomination of Christianity or group of denominations to call themselves “Christian,” while excluding others who believe in the Trinity and the divinity of Our Lord is thoroughly obnoxious, IMO. The term Christian includes not only Evangelical Protestants, but lots of other Protestants who aren’t Evangelical, Catholics, members of Eastern Orthodox denominations–Russian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox. etc.–, Coptic Christians, etc.</p>

<p>When Evangelical Protestants insist that they and only they are “Christians” by using the term “Christian” to include ONLY those who are part of their small slice of Christianity, IMO, they are being thoroughly obnoxious. Obviously, the OP, Hunt and others disagree. I am simply reminding them that their use of the word “Christian” in such a narrow sense is EXTREMELY offensive to the rest of those of us who consider ourselves Christian.</p>

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<p>There is, Hunt. It’s just not used by narrow-minded Evangelical Protestants. Among the rest of us, these are “Evangelical and/or fundamentalist PROTESTANT colleges.”</p>

<p>Hunt,</p>

<p>Good clarification in post #30.</p>

<p>We are Protestant Christians and probably our family’s closest friends are Catholic Christians whose oldest son is headed to Belmont Abbey in the fall.</p>

<p>I haven’t seen Hunt or the OP express an opinion on whether those who exclude other Trinitarians from the body of Christ are obnoxious or not. So I can hardly understand how you can say they don’t find them so. </p>

<p>For myself, the term “Christian” has become so tarnished by those who would exclude others because of what are essentially meaningless doctrinal disagreements that I have stopped describing myself thus. I prefer simply to say that I am a follower of Jesus Christ, the crucified and risen Savior.</p>

<p>I can testify that Jonri is perfectly correct in saying that a significant segment of self-described “Christians” openly say that Catholics are not “Christian,” and cite the erroneous belief that Catholics “worship” Mary as proof. My own born-again BIL said that very thing to me several years ago. I found it quite shocking. I have since discovered that it is a surprising common opinion.</p>