<p>I have no idea where to post this, so I'll put these musings here... My oldest got a HUGE almost catalogue book thing from Yale. ( He is a rising senior with a 34 ACT. I guess that is how they got his name to send it.) He was amazed. He and I both agreed he couldn't get in and he wouldn't like it there anyway. Way too much pressure and way too liberal. But it made me think of my dad and wish that I could talk to him. He died on Memorial Day 3 years ago. </p>
<p>My dad got a near perfect score on the SAT, quarterback, president of chess club and student council, etc. You get the idea. He got a full scholarship to Yale. He went 2 years before my grandparents refused to let him go back. That is where he learned to smoke, became very disrespectful to my grandparents, etc. They thought is as a terrible influence on him. ( And smoking is what killed him, BTW) They sent him to their alma mater, Southwestern which at the time was a very conservative Methodist school. ( not anymore) He met my mom, married her and ended up getting his degree from University of Houston. It was a math degree, but he ended up working with computers his entire life. ( No such thing as a computer degree then..) I still remember all the punch cards and reams of that green striped paper that I got to use to draw/doodle on.</p>
<p>My dad did eventually come back to his faith. He and my boys were baptized together.. I know people here on this board are ivy crazy.. I'm a little anti-ivy, to be honest.. I would not have wanted the high pressure of a school like that. I know my son doesn't either. </p>
<p>I have no idea what the point of this is.. Just musing.. I'd like to show my dad the catalogue we got. He kept up with the Yale goings on and got the magazine and reunion infor and stuff. ( Dick Cheney was in his class.) My son and my dad are a lot alike and I wish now that my son has decided to major in computers that he and my dad could talk about that... My dad was SO smart. Perfect scores in science a math, but he wrote wonderful poetry and painted as well. I miss him.</p>
<p>Two years ago, I would have agreed with everything you said. My DS just finished his freshman year at an ivy (not Yale). He was never ivy crazy. He didn’t have a single ivy in his sights. He received a mailing (not a catalog) from his current school and something caught his attention. He went to the website, started exploring and got interested. We discussed it and decided to visit.</p>
<p>The visit was great, although intimidating to me. It wasn’t intimidating to him, and he was actually excited by the school and all the courses and everything the school offered. He applied along with a number of public schools and a couple of other privates (no other ivy schools as only this one interested him).</p>
<p>I really didn’t think he’d get in. He was a public school kid who’s school did not have a history of kids getting in. Amazingly he got in (I never doubted his ability to be eligible, but the history was against him). He narrowed his top schools, then did admitted student visits and focused on fit. He made and informed decision and chose the ivy.</p>
<p>He worked hard, had a great year and is currently doing a summer course. He didn’t start drinking, smoking or partying. All were readily available, but that’s not what he was interested in doing. (All are available at just about every school, exceptions usually those with religious affiliations like your father transferred to).</p>
<p>I guess I’m trying to say that the schools aren’t for everyone, but they also might surprise some people. Don’t write the schools off just because of reputation or name. Evaluate all schools based on what they can offer to the individual. No school is for everyone, but there is a school for everyone and you might be surprised by the school that a fits your child.</p>
<p>Sounds like you are missing your dad. Gentle hugs. </p>
<p>As for the marketing material your student got-- yes likely from score reporting.
Many go out. As for getting in, there is no way to know without applying.</p>
<p>As for Yale, our student just completed freshman year. LOVES Yale. Very happy.
Yes students take their studies seriously. And they are a very diverse group and their interests and social groups are very varied. </p>
<p>We are a conservative family with a strong faith background. If you believe…"Train up a child… " then all you can do is hold fast to the seeds planted. </p>
<p>Your student will be exposed to many things in college, among them will be many ideas about faith that will challenge what he has been taught. That journey is something we all face in our lives…regardless of age…and often not a few times along the way. </p>
<p>My father–also a full scholarship Yale student, class of 45W–died two years ago this summer. I’m sorry for your loss. Your father sounds like a brilliant and special man.</p>
<p>I find it terribly sad that your father’s parents acted to restrict his life in such a way. I have little doubt that “being disrespectful” consisted of no longer agreeing with every religious and political opinion they held. And if he was on full scholarship, then how did they force him to leave a place that it sounds as if he longed for? Who knows what kind of emotional pressure they exerted… </p>
<p>As others have pointed out, your son will be exposed to all sorts of things throughout his life that will challenge him to decide who he is and what he believes. Yale may well not be the school for him–especially if his focus is computer science–but I wouldn’t make that decision based on preconceptions that seem to indicate a very limited view of the institution.</p>
<p>My father died on June 19th four years ago, the day after my eldest daughter’s Jr.HS commencement. It makes the end of each school year bittersweet, missing him. Especially this year, as D2012 graduates from HS. </p>
<p>My father was an engineer of the old seat-of-the-pants style. In his 20s he was one of the folks who figured out what could be done with an obscure device called the transistor. He surfed the crest of the technology wave from hardware to software, and worked in one of the first tech campuses in silicon valley. He would be very proud of D2012 going to Berkeley as an engineering major, and proud of D2015 trailblazing her own unique path through HS.</p>
<p>A man is not truly dead as long as he lives on in our hearts.</p>
<p>Giant ditto to Consolation’s post. In addition, I don’t understand the concept of being “anti-Ivy”. If your kid isn’t suited to a highly competitive environment, there are many colleges, not just Ivies, that would be bad choices (and maybe one Ivy, Brown, that might suit just fine). But just as most CC’ers cringe when a high schooler posts about being desperate to attend “an Ivy”, as if they were all clones, I cringe at someone being “anti” such very varied universities. Each Ivy is unique, each may be a good or poor choice for any given student.</p>
<p>As a Yale grad steadily moving toward the front of the magazine’s class notes, if Yale made your dad act differently than how he was raised in his faith, that would be many times more likely now. Yale is significantly more diverse now. The Ivies generally are, partly because they to a degree reflect the world more than the US, with that partly because their prestige is more international than ever. It is extremely difficult to attend such a place and not be affected by the reality of knowing people of different faiths and cultures. </p>
<p>That said, some members of my class have become devoutly religious. This has often included closing their minds to science when that conflicts with their faith. That means the process of opening up is reversible. Whether that’s good or bad is a different question.</p>
<p>I can, in part, understand the sadness you are feeling. My mom passed away from complications due to breast cancer on Memorial day a year ago, leaving my kids - the lights of her life - without their only grandmother. She, too, was accomplished with many hobbies, two Master’s degrees, and hoards of people who loved her. My youngest just won a statewide writing contest, and my mom, who loved to write, would have been so excited and proud. I wish every day that she was here to discuss their shared passion.</p>
<p>Consolation… there was probably more going on than just that. The other thing I did not mention was that my dad was probably bipolar. He was hospitalized in junior high with shock treatment and again after my parents had me. (I didn’t find this out until after he died.) My dad had years and many times when he was a blast. We could talk about anything. He was the fun parent that would take you out for ice cream at 1am. He had a GREAT sense of humor and could charm anyone. Then he would have months where he didn’t want to leave his room. Mental health wasn’t dealt with or talked about like it is now… So was my dad disrespectful…probably. He probably cussed them to their face. He used to cuss my mom all the time around me after they divorced. He was almost like two people. So yes, I know that Yale didn’t cause that. But I’m not sure I blame my grandparents either. Regardless, I still miss him even though it was complicated. I’m trying to self-publish a book of his paintings and poetry.</p>
<p>mom - my dad died 4 years ago memorial day. I think about him everyday, miss him everyday and so many times I wish I could tell him something, ask his opinion and know how proud he’d be of me and my kids. You can’t help but think of him when things come up that remind you of him.</p>
<p>Not that my opinion matters a hill of beans because I truly believe everyone should follow their own path - I don’t think ivy’s are all that for undergrad. But good for those who go and flourish. No sour grapes, I happen to have a lower key philosophy on pressure cooker schools. But I know some thrive in that environment. It’s why there are so many colleges out there - something for everyone.</p>
<p>OP,
Your description about your Dad keeping up with Yale throughout the years indicates that he probably enjoyed it and found value in his experience there. Given that, what makes you think your son won’t enjoy it there, too? I think he’d love it there. Most Yale students seem to have an almost fanatical love for their school. I say this as the parent of a very conservative (albeit not religious) Yale student who did not find it to be any more “high pressure” than her competitive high school. Keep an open mind about Yale. It might surprise you and your son.</p>
<p>Ivies get a bad rap in regard to perceived arrogance. When visiting colleges with my D’s we got more of this “vibe” from colleges at a level just below the Ivies in academic reputation.</p>
<p>The mailing of the Yale catalog does not really mean anything. Your son checked a box agreeing to receive materials and with a score like that, will receive a lot of materials.</p>
<p>It would seem that seeing the Yale catalog sparked some emotions about your Dad. My father was also bipolar (died 37 years ago). For your father, isn’t it possible that going away from home triggered some mood changes (and bipolar disorders can cause swearing and disrespectul behavior in the irritable/angry variant of mania) and also, college age is the usual age of onset. So your father could have changed considerably due to the psychiatric disorder, not Yale itself.</p>
<p>That said, change and exposure to differences is often good at this age, if painful. These days, all kinds of kids go to Ivies and there are religious organizations for students as well. My daughter is at an Ivy (never really intended it, applied to one because of the courses in her major, and the price was right w/financial aid). She does not like competitive intensity but follows her own drummer. This allows her to focus on the positive.</p>
<p>You will find drinking, smoking and “liberal” sexual behavior at many, many colleges. It is possible to negotiate these shoals and have a good, and healthy, experience.</p>
<p>I hope you will not completely shut off some of the wonderful opportunities available to your talented son, and have confidence in his ability to stay true do to himself. It sounds like your father had a lot of things going on and it is hard to stay true to one self when that self is changing or even fracturing, as happens with bipolar.</p>
<p>I know he won’t consider it because I can’t get him to consider any school more than 3 or 4 hours away. He says he wants a Christian school that has good sports programs. ( He is a sports fanatic. He knows the stats for every conceivable sport. ) He wants a medium size school. Those are his requirements. ( Not mine. I’ve even made him consider a few that are not Christian but are somewhat conservative like TCU or Louisiana Tech.) There is no way I could get him to go as far away as Yale. I can’t even get him to consider Rice. I’ve asked him several times and he says NO WAY.</p>
<p>^Okay, well it doesn’t sound like there is any point in trying to talk him into it. For the record, Yale sports are Div. 1 (except football which is 1AA) and Yale offers one of the highest number of varsity sports of any colleges in the NCAA. The undergrad population is about 5,000 - which I would consider a “medium” sized school.</p>
<p>D2 got that Yale catalog mailing this week too. She has no interest so it went right into recycling but it caught my eye when I got home. Oh marketing ;)</p>
<p>momknowsbest: our dad’s were probably about the same age. Want to know where my dad “learned to smoke?” In the navy, when he enlisted at the age of 17 after Pearl Harbor. A pack of smokes & a Hershey bar were part of the regular care package they received. Being the youngest on the ship, he quickly picked up smoking to be one of the guys. Cigarettes weren’t considered harmful back in 1942, but by the time he passed from emphysema in 1990 they sure were. </p>
<p>I miss my dad everyday but I’m not mad at the U.S. military for helping him pick up a bad habit. He was 17 and we all know that 17 year old boys aren’t always good at making decisions based on long term consequences. Culturally smoking was much more acceptable then than now. </p>
<p>Dad got a semester in at Dartmouth & a semester in at Bates on the GI Bill before he had to return to work to support his mom. He was one of the smartest people I ever knew & I am so sorry that my girls never met him. I say that in honor of Father’s Day we should all raise a toast or say a prayer or give a hug (if possible) to our dads.</p>
<p>Hmmm, Texas Christian University actually is affiliated with a Christian denomination, although a small one (Disciples of Christ). Presumably, he wants a religious school of a specific denomination?</p>
<p>No, and he knows tCU isn’t really Christian exactly, but they aren’t hostile to it. What is funny is that for around this area he is actually an adventurous one. He is homeschooled, but our local public school graduates around 188. 100 kids or so go to our local cc, 50 go nowhere and only 38 kids or so go to a local university…mostly to those that are an hour or less away like UT Tyler or Stephen F Austin. A very few like 1 or 2 each go to aTm, Baylor, TCU and very rarely UT.</p>
<p>“He says he wants a Christian school that has good sports programs. ( He is a sports fanatic. He knows the stats for every conceivable sport. ) He wants a medium size school. Those are his requirements.”</p>
<p>Sounds like Baylor is perfect – maybe the one and only.</p>
<p>I think there is a misconception that students at Yale (and other Ivies) experience a lot of pressure. I don’t think that’s true for most kids–except for the pressure that they exert on themselves. Most of them are super-active people. Yale (at least for the majors I know about) isn’t really a cut-throat, competitive environment. People work hard because they are hard workers.</p>
<p>It’s not for everybody, certainly, but I think that if a student is accepted, he or she can almost certainly handle it.</p>