My child is merely average.

Parents Forum
401

<p>AnonyMom, AMEN!</p>

<p>I deleted a fairly long post. It just seems futile, given what we've been told now and in the past regarding LC's relationship with her daughter. We have no idea what the tone in the house is, only the tone of LC's posts, which is pretty bad, I must say. LC, you come off sounding cold, compassionless, and selfish. Oh, and whiney. It sounds like you do not and may never have liked/loved your child. It was OK when she was being "easy", but now that she is no longer being easy, she's just such a drag on you. She doesn't give you any joy or pride or anything that makes you feel good. (That's not really her job, though, ya know???!!)</p>

<p>You both suffered a huge loss, no? Have you EVER considered that you both might not be emotionally well? 'Cold' can = 'depressed'. Are you depressed, LC? You talk about your dd, and her failings, but what about YOU? What in the world are you feeling behind that cold rational exterior you have consistently shown us? </p>

<p>I bet that 6 weeks on an SSRI would change your outlook entirely. How your daughter is acting can easily be explained by a too-heavy courseload combined with being around a depressed mother. That feeling of heaviness you feel around her?? That feeling is coming FROM YOU!</p>

<p>I'm thinking 2 things. One, you're depressed and have been for some time. Two, you are a borderline personality with some degree of narcissism.</p>

<p>The things you say about your child are just not right.</p>

402

<p>OP- hugs to you. This cannot have been an easy year for either of you.</p>

<p>I cannot pretend to know what it's like to walk in your shoes. What I can tell you is that once/if you get some professional help, you will no longer feel weighed down by your daughter. You will most likely look forward to seeing what the next adventure/chapter in her life holds, and will eagerly be looking ahead (tinged with the sadness that she's moving out and you will miss her).</p>

<p>So please- don't miss out on the rest of this special time with your daughter. Even people experiencing the normal sadness of grief and mourning get to make each other feel loved and cherished. So if that's not the place you find yourself in, recognize that you and your daughter are in the throes of a serious illness. Would you let her ignore a strep infection? Of course not. So don't ignore this. </p>

<p>And please- understand that I'm not being critical. However, your comment about your brother was the most revealing to me. Do you actually think that he bought airline tickets to watch your D get some piece of paper and walk across a stage in a wrinkled polyester robe? No- he bought tickets to show her (and you) that they love her and are proud of her; that despite your loss you still have family and people who are on your team and in your court- always and unconditionally. Would he care about losing the money on an airline ticket if you called him to say that your daughter is in trouble and on the verge of not graduating??? Do you not realize that he'd be on the next flight out to help you sort through what's going on???? He's not showing up so he can brag about her GPA or her accomplishments or because he cares about her class rank or EC's (or the lack thereof). He's showing up, kids in tow, as a visual and visceral reminder to your D that she is not alone in the world and that there are people who cherish her for who she is and not what she achieves. Her graduation is just a convenient excuse (and a nice symbolic one to boot) to show that to her.</p>

<p>You clearly have people in your life who want to demonstrate that they care and are there for you. Do not block them out. Get help.</p>

403

<p>Sorry, I can't get past the first post where the OP says that her daughter's SAT score of 1830 (which means she could have gotten over 600 on each section) is "laughable". After that comment, I can't really believe all the talk about "hanging on by a thread" in her classes...that could mean that she is getting a B for all we know. </p>

<p>By now the daughter should have heard from a college...let's hope it is one that has more support than she has at home.</p>

404

<p>Linda, </p>

<p>I mean this is the nicest way -- you should seek professional help. Your D has a 1830 on her SATs. That is not laughable. She should be able to make her way in the world. Plenty of successful people did not go to Ivies and do not have ECs. Is she a nice person? </p>

<p>Please let us know how she did on acceptances.</p>

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<p>Blossom, I too was completely repulsed by the comment about the brother/family coming for graduation. Seems more and more like BPD to me.......God help the poor daughter. </p>

<p>I know depression extremely well. In addition, I had a BPD mother. I no longer feel the OP is depressed. Not after that plane ticket comment. </p>

<p>We can all save our breath because LC does not and will not 'get' it. Period. Just pray that the daughter gets through her senior year and gets away come August. </p>

<p>Addendum: One tries to give someone the benefit of the doubt....but LC has been consistent in her presentation, over and over and over. LC is sick, but typically has not ever looked at herself as the problem, even after many many comments inviting her to at least consider the part her emotions might be playing in the family dynamics. Emotionally well mothers would agonize over what <em>they</em> had done to cause the problem, and would not repeatedly blame the child. BPDs are <em>never</em> at fault, even if it means labeling their children as defective, which, clearly, LC has repeatedly done.</p>

<p>LC, this is the last I'm going to say on this subject: You are mentally ill. You could be seriously damaging your daughter. You need to get help. If you have any spark of love for your daughter, get help. People CAN recover from BPD.</p>

406

<p>I wouldn't presume to try to diagnose what's wrong with you and your family, OP, but I agree with those who suggest that you seek professional counseling. Obviously, something is wrong, and you're aware that something is wrong. Since you're concerned, go to a professional to get help and advice.</p>

407

<p>Of course I blame myself. Puh-leeeeze.</p>

<p>Anyway, for those who asked, D applied, among other places, to a state university with rolling admissions and was accepted and she decided to go there a few months ago. her deposit and acceptance were sent in prior to Xmas. She was also accepted to two other schools (one a LAC that offered virtually no FA), and denied at Tulane and William & Mary. Her friends had very discouraging college acceptances, so in that regard, she is actually in good shape, having worked past disappointment and accepted her choice as a great one for her. (Longwood University.) IF she can just get there.</p>

<p>I am not familiar with the BPD diagnosis being tossed around, but I will look into it.</p>

<p>Again, let me say that I am shocked by the interpretations that I am NOT blaming myself. Of course I blame myself. I have made basically every life choice with this D in mind for the past 17 years and have tried to ensure that she had what she needed to pursue her interests and receive a good education. But something recently has gone awry. I have inventoried every possibility and have even chalked it up to senior-itis.<br>
When her report card with poor grades showed up last month, it was the CC consensus that I not say anything. I did not. She has been struggling but has been working with her Govt and English teachers getting extra help. This has been on her own. I hope she is successful.</p>

<p>I will say that this website has also contributed to my stress. I just don't know that it represents the real world. One thing I have noticed is massive grade inflation. A disconnect between a 4.5 W GPA and a 1950 SAT, for example. In any event, that is just my rant, I found the college admission experience stressful as did my D, and I am optimistic that she will graduate and find her way at Longwood University. </p>

<p>Finally, I want to say this. Some of you responded in a courteous, kind way, but a great many of you, upon reading one snide response, pile on. It's an interesting microcosm. I do not think that I have shared anything that some of you also have not felt yourselves.</p>

408

<p>"One thing I have noticed is massive grade inflation. A disconnect between a 4.5 W GPA and a 1950 SAT"</p>

<p>The above can occur in weak schools. Students may be excelling in their classes, but their classes just aren't that good, no fault of the students. This is why many colleges still use the SAT, so the colleges can differentiate between the quality of high schools.</p>

409

<p>Linda,
It felt like groundhog day reading these posts - my simple advice - get some help for yourself. I had a co-worker who had a bad marriage, bad relationship w/son, on and on. I would patiently listen to her for years in the break room and she would even email/call me. But never once did I hear her say she was seeing a therapist or even looking for help for herself. And then it dawned on me, her negative attention was better than no attention. Her problems got her attention from those who listened. Its been 8 yrs and she has done nothing to try to break out of her cycle of self-doubt and unhappiness in order to improve her life. There is a revolving door of friends and acquaintances who quickly figure her out after hearing her stories. Do yourself a favor, focus on yourself and sort out the reasons why you are feeling this way w/professional help. Your daughter will respond to a different more positive mom who loves herself. It will be a long process - just get moving in the right direction.</p>

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<p>Linda, I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings in any way, that was not my intention. It is clear to me that you have made many sacrifices for your D and many of the qualities you admire in her (her resilience, her friendships, her ability to suck it up and ask for help from her teachers which couldn't have been easy) are clearly resulting from your great parenting skills.</p>

<p>But- and here's the but- I've had kids with massive senioritis. Yeah, there were moments when we wondered would they graduate. But the feelings of heaviness and hardship and weightiness that you describe resonate with me as the feelings I had when I went through a depressive illness-- and were not the feelings of irritation and bemusement that I felt while watching my kids blow off school at the end of senior year. I so regret not having gotten help sooner-- I missed a couple of major milestones in my family (I was there in body but not in spirit, and certainly not in a joyful way at all) and I cannot get those moments back. The depression chewed up my ability to appreciate things or gain perspective or even cope with very small setbacks that usually I'd have shrugged off easily. That's how powerful it was.</p>

<p>So yeah, teenagers can be annoying and senior year is rough. I think we can all empathize with that. But much of what you describe goes beyond the ups and downs or parenting an adolescence. Even without your back-story, I'd think you could both benefit from seeing a MHP. But with the background of grief and loss that you've experienced- it makes my heart break for you.</p>

<p>I have a cousin who lost a father at the same age as your D. She was estranged from the family for many years, and recently she told me that what stung was not losing the father (she mourned, she grieved, it was sad and she still misses him but she has become an adult missing her parent) but what really hurt was losing her mom at the same time. Her mom was functioning fine, going to work, paying the bills, getting dinner on the table- but lost to her kids emotionally.</p>

<p>So my heart breaks for you but there are people who love you and are on your team.</p>

411

<p>Linda: you wrote, "My dog went to a puppy class, but she was very good and did not need any extended classes or other training to get her Canine Good Citizen certificate or Therapy Dog card."</p>

<p>Your dog sounds like a dream--easily trained and responsive to commands. You must enjoy that. </p>

<p>Have you been taking the dog to do therapy work since your D was unable to do so? Do you find that the dog benefits from that kind of activity and stimulation?</p>

412

<p>I have been obsessively looking for a wonderful school for my daughter who is a very gifted, and by all counts excellent student and high achiever. I love CC because she and I have been able to come up with a list of perfect schools, all well suited for a student like her. She will be a senior in the fall and my focus will be to continue to help her find a school that is perfectly suited for a high achiever who wants to major in musical theatre. I am so excited and must admit that I am vicariously living through her in this whole experience!</p>

<p>Today, I thought to myself, well this will be a whole new experience next year when I start to help my son, who is currently a sophomore, look for a college. So, with him in mind, I typed in the words "Great Colleges for Average Kids". You see, my son is a fabulous kid who happens to make A's, B's and C's, takes grade level classes (NOT on the fast track), and I doubt he will graduate with one AP class. He is NOT type A like my daughter and really is quite satisfied with being just another "bum on the bus." Ha! He's not a bum at all, but I mean he does not aspire to be FIRST or to seek extra-curricular activities that might help him grow as a student or that might even help him get into college! When I suggested to him the other day that he might join a club so that he could have something to write in the EC activities on his college application, he said "I run cross country and play Varsity Tennis." I added that maybe a club would be nice and he said, "I'm in the ultimate frisbee club!" So there you have it. My son's ECs! Anyway, he is a great kid, but I do see what the OP is saying...it seems like everyone these days is "gifted" and our kids do seem to live in a "gifted" world. The guidance counselor at the school I work at recently said that she was so mad at her son for getting a C, becuase "C's won't get you into college!" Well, of course I didn't say anything, but it worried me because my son gets a C almost every report card.</p>

<p>But realistically, my son is not gifted and he does very, very average (if not below average on the PSAT's). He falls right on the 50% line -- I think that means he's right in the middle. Certainly he won't impress admissions committees, however, he's my son and I want a FABULOUS school for him. My husband and I often think that he might just surprise us all, with his easy going, flying by the seat of his pants (last minute for everything!), laid back outlook on school. "Heck, if they're not impressed with me, then I don't want to go there anyway kind of attitude" might just work out to his benefit. He's perhaps one of the funniest people that you would ever meet and we would love for a GREAT college to know what a great kid he is, but his resume certainly won't sell him. We just have to trust that there is a really wonderful school somewhere out there for what others might consider an "average kid". He loves history...the only "honors" class he has ever taken : - ) Has an A in that class, too! Suggestions?</p>

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<p>"We just have to trust that there is a really wonderful school somewhere out there for what others might consider an "average kid". He loves history...the only "honors" class he has ever taken : - ) Has an A in that class, too! Suggestions?"</p>

<p>Start your own thread, so as not to hijack this one. Also look in the CC archives as this subject has come up before, and there's lots of good info on it.</p>

<p>There are plenty of schools that are great fits for average kids, something that most college-bound students are.</p>

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<p>Oops, sorry everyone. I still have not figured out all the rules on these threads. I was trying to keep within a thread already addressing "average" students. Thanks!</p>

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<p>There's an interesting contrast between terig's descriptions of her "average" son and LindaC's descriptions of her "merely average" daughter. </p>

<p>LindaC, I have no interest in piling on or saying anything else on this thread, except to agree with everyone here that this is a problem more to do with you than with your daughter. Most people would not want to engage in this extended argument, given how personally insulting some of the comments have been. You might ask yourself why you continue to post here, and what is it in your manner that is so provoking to so many readers. Until you are willing to let go of your willful blindness by seeking psychological help, you and your daughter will not get better. I sincerely wish for you both some peace of mind and contentment. </p>

<p>And now I think I will quit reading this thread. It feels too much like enabling.</p>

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<p>LC-</p>

<p>I'm a high school senior, with this "grade inflation" that you speak of, who thinks that you need to seek professional help. (4.52 GPA and 1920 SAT--I'm sure you think I'm "average")
I'm not trying to be insulting or rude, but if my mother talked about me like you have talked about your daughter, I'd be suicidal. I think it's common for the parent to push the child's feelings aside due to other worries and concern. Your daughter will be fine academically, I'm sure, but will she be fine emotionally? Instead of focusing on why she didn't find the cure for AIDS or make a 2400 on the SAT, focus on why she always retires to the computer or why she harbors a "heavy presence."</p>

<p>And although I thorougly questioned your sanity and ability to love when I read your post, I am sorry that you and your D have been through so much. I think that's even more reason to try and work things out with your D, preferably with some sort of counseling.</p>

<p>Lastly, I hope you are not insulted by my post. I am simply trying to ensure that you seek help for you and your daughter. And I have a 17 year old daughter's perspective--I don't know how I would ever deal with the disapproval that seems to permeate every word of your posts. Please consider my advice, for you AND your daughter's sake.</p>

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<p>Mrs Weasley: A very mellow, friendly dog makes a good therapy dog. We go once a week, currently to a skilled nursing facility and substitute at a hospital as needed. I did not want to let down the Therapy Dog program because of my D's TB test; there are a small number of their residents, in these facilities, who love the dog visits. Let me stress "small number." </p>

<p>After your dog is certified, you will be contacted by a local coordinator who will send you a list of participating facilities (and any homebound folks who want a visit at their homes). You then contact the facility and see if their needs and your dog are a good match.</p>

<p>To be honest, not every patient enjoys petting the dog. In fact, I would say that 30% really like the pet visits. And they really do like them. One of the hospitals I went to even had a Polaroid camera and a volunteer took pictures of the dog with the patients -- they let the dog hop into the bed with the patient! I also work with Hospice and have taken my dog to visit Hospice patients (the families really enjoy this time). If you have a very, very calm dog, then it works out. </p>

<p>My D may be able to take over the reins this summer if her TB test comes back negative next month. I mean, the leash.</p>

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<p>blairb91: Yes, I do think your GPA seems inflated, but my opinion is not important here. And it is not your fault. </p>

<p>You will succeed at whatever school you attend and do very well. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Well, LC, my GPA is not inflated and actually should be higher (around 4.56 or so), as I have taken 7 AP classes with the rest being Honors.</p>

<p>The more you post, the more I feel sorry for your daughter. How could you possibly know anything about the workings of my school in NC when you live in VA?</p>

<p>Anyway, I also assume you completely ignored my advice, which I intended to be the meat of my post. I will try to ignore your mildly insulting generalization to urge that you, once again, consider attending counseling with your daughter. I am sure that it will yield a positive response from both of you, at least eventually. Have you considered this?</p>

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<p>It has been quite interesting to follow this thread since I put in my first $.02 back on post #152. At that time I wrote:</p>

<p>
[quote]
What I am getting to here Linda (in a long winded way), is that you need to worry about fixing your feelings about your situation and stop projecting your feelings onto what your daughter should be feeling about her situation. She's going to be OK. It is you I am worried about.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It would still appear that you seem to feel that your daughter should feel that same sense of urgency about how your daughter should feel about her situation. I will give you credit for biting your tongue about the last report card. It probably would have had only negative effect, given that she is now working to remedy the situation. </p>

<p>However, I think the bottled up feelings are the problem here, not your daughter's performance in school. You still seem disappointed in (or at least ambivalent about) her college acceptance and seem to project a continuing doubt about her character with the way you present the possibility of her getting that rescinded.</p>

<p>I think it is time to take a step back from your daughter, acknowledge all that you have done for her and accept the positive results of her life and take a little credit for her getting this far. I say take a little because, like everything else in life, so much is beyond our control.</p>

<p>And just because she hasn't quite found what she wants to be in life and poured herself into being that doesn't mean that you have done something wrong or she is a failure. Some of us just take a little longer to get there. </p>

<p>I think I also mentioned in that post that my own goaliegirl was in the same boat, not having found a direction and that I didn't forsee that changing soon. Well, things do change and I am beginning to get some optimism in the past month as she seems to have focused herself on a plan for college. Right now she is exploring what that entails and I am hoping in the next couple of months that more of focus of her efforts will go to this new direction.</p>

<p>And while this new direction is not necessarily something that everyone on CC goes around bragging about, my wife and I completely understand why she is looking in this direction (you can tell a lot about a kid by what they stop for while channel surfing and this is something that has been a subject that has had her attention for as long as I remember). And even if she changes her mind after doing the due dilligence regarding the necessary committment, the fact that she is making that effort is progress enough to make me satisfied.</p>

<p>And to that extent, I am happy to support her in any way that she asks me to. It is her turn to drive, though. I've done it enough years.</p>

<p>You've put enough opportunities in front of her. It is time for you to step back and watch for her to take the lead. You just need patience and to listen very carefully for when she does grab onto something.</p>

<p>And learning that patience will in the end help you to improve your feelings about both your daughter and yourself. And once she chooses her direction, you will feel much better about both of you, no matter what that direction is.</p>

<p>I'll leave you with one last thought about happiness. When Expectations > Reality, happiness is never an outcome. However, when Reality > Expecations, happiness is always assured. Right now your expectations are just a little too high for reality to support your happiness. Lower your expectation as to when she will discover that passion for achievement and your satisfaction will rise rapidly when she does find it. I'm much happier now than just a few months ago when I had finally accepted that goaliegirl was going to take a while to find direction.</p>

<p>I wish you peace.</p>