<p>Sounds like she’s beginning to listen to reason and some of the emotional stuff is passing. :)</p>
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<p>If she were going to go to some unranked, unknown, regional public then she might have a point. But, if she goes to a “good school” that has a recognizable name that has a good IR program and she gets good grades (and does an internship), she’ll get accepted to a good grad school. :)<br>
From the sounds of it, all the school that you’ve mentioned are “known schools”. </p>
<p>She’ll have enough chances to get some debt with grad school; she doesn’t need to further her burden with undergrad debt. ;)</p>
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<p>And, why is any of this their business? Seriously. How dare they try to intimidate you into taking on debt. If they think such a loan is so worthwhile, let them take out loans for your D. LOL </p>
<p>Honestly, you need to have some “come backs” in your repetoire to say when these people try to pressure you. Of course, you could simply say, “That’s not for you to decide.” or “That’s none of your business.” or simply, but firmly say… “Stop trying to pressure me; I know that I can’t afford any loans, and I know that my D won’t be able to easily pay any back. If you’re going to continue to pressure me, then I won’t speak to you about any of this until D is in college.”</p>
<p>Don’t you dare feel bad about not being able to save for this… {{{{ hugs}}}} You raised her, you fed her, you clothed her…all on a low income. You did an amazing job. You have nothing to apologize for.</p>
<p>Or: “Well, I don’t see how I would be doing her any favors by not having money for old age. You DO realize that anything borrowed now will have to be paid back later?”</p>
<p>Of course, you could also make them feel STUPID, but they’re probably your friends and you wouldn’t want to get into the idiocy of borrowing what you can’t actually afford to borrow. You are also doing your daughter a massive favor by not allowing her to mortgage away her future. (I’m sure people have already told you this on this thread!)</p>
<p>I like best that you are putting in the time to guide her in the direction of her best interest. You know, when my kids were younger, my oldest D (very strikingly beautiful) was approached…we were approached…to sign her as a model. She wanted very much to “act.” People used to say “well if she WANTS it…” She was 4, 10, 15…etc… </p>
<p>“Yeah, well when she was a baby she wanted to run out into traffic pretty badly, too, but I didn’t let her do THAT, either.” People always have opinions. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>sorry to hear that the non-custodial thing is not going to work out. And you’re right about not going into a lot of private debt, although college is always more expensive than it seems, you may need to borrow a little just to get her through. Have you approached the guidance office to see what they can do in terms of finding a scholarship for her. At our high school they make an effort for high scoring low income kids.</p>
<p>My D. is a poli sci major with a focus on international relations. She applied to Columbia’s School of International and Public Affairs for a master’s degree as part of a combined 5-year-degree program with Barnard, but she did not get in, despite a 3.9+ GPA and an application that her advisor felt was one of the strongest for the year. (The dual degree program is VERY competitive - at most they might accept 2 students in a given year, some years none. This past year they took only 1). </p>
<p>I really can’t say that my d. is better off in terms of employment opportunities coming as an undergrad from a top school than a student with a bachelors from a school like Seton Hall. Employment opportunities are very limited in any case. </p>
<p>There are other expenses to consider. My d’s dream job would be to work with a NGO such as a UN agency – and she created and got her own dream internship spending a summer working for UNHCR in Geneva and New Delhi. The internship was incredible, but it was unpaid and my d. had to come up with her own travel expenses. So in a sense, what was more important than the quality of her school was the availability of reasonably lucrative part-time employment opportunities. (My d. does a lot of bartending). </p>
<p>I do think international travel experience is useful for that major/focus – and that costs $$. So that is definitely something to consider. </p>
<p>I also think that foreign language proficiency is very important – if I were giving advice based on what I have learned from my daughter, I’d say that it would be ideal for a student with similar career goals to hers to be trilingual with proficiency in French and in a strategic language – and perhaps to look for graduate level funding to focus on foreign language study (where there is some funding available). (My d has the strategic language but not French – but she realized in Geneva that would be a real shortcoming for her career goals.). </p>
<p>And I would definitely recommend conserving financial resources as much as possible, so as to have flexibility for post-graduate internships and employment that might not initially meet financial expectations. When my d. was in Geneva, almost all of the interns there were grad students, many working on their Ph.D’s – all were unpaid, and Geneva is an expensive place to live, so there was a lot of griping about the cost of meals, etc. </p>
<p>In other words, if your d. opts for a prestigious but expensive school that requires her to take on a lot of debt, she won’t have the money to fund the international living and travel that is important for the career and is a plus for graduate school admissions; she won’t have the money to fund the internships; and she’s going to have a hard time paying for grad school. </p>
<p>I would put it this way: everyone has opportunities, but the opportunities come in different forms for different people. Life has dealt our daughters a certain set of cards, and their success with their educations and careers depends on how well they play the cards in their hands. It isn’t about the undergraduate school, it isn’t about the degree – it’s about being resourceful, flexible and creative. Your daughter SHOULD apply to some more selective colleges, because sometimes they can be very generous with need-based aid in surprising ways – but she should ALSO apply to colleges that will be more affordable or which are likely to offer her merit money.</p>
<p>Bundle, in your financial situation, her best options are either the Ivies or Rutgers (I gather from the Princeton statement that you’re a NJ resident). She may get accepted and be offered scholarships to the schools you mentioned, so see what pans out. But with her stats, she should try for the Ivies, which are all offering full tuition for families that make under $60,000 a year. See what happens.</p>
<p>My brother-in-law and his best friend were both accepted to both MIT and Harvard. Both were offered full scholarships at Rutgers. His best friend chose Rutgers because his parents were broke and his younger siblings were not as academically gifted as he was. He triple-majored in Physics, Chemistry, and something obscure at Rutgers, and is currently finishing his PhD at MIT in String Theory. My brother-in-law also chose Rutgers because although his parents had a college fund for him, he knew he was going to grad school. So Rutgers paid his way through undergrad and Columbia is paying him to finish his PhD, and his parents could still afford to help him pay for his wedding and help him put a down payment on their future home in lieu of spending a fortune on his undergraduate education. I can keep listing stories of friends of mine who chose state schools if you’re not convinced…</p>
<p>Calmom, good call on the community college professors! They really care about teaching…I took organic chem with a Georgetown professor who swore that his students at the community college were more devoted to actually learning instead of beating the curve than his students at Georgetown. Incidentally, he gave the same exams to both groups, and the c.c. students scored a few points higher…</p>
<p>I don’t understand how the Ivies are an option if the noncustodial parent will not fill out the financial aid forms. </p>
<p>Bundle, as far as the guilt… We moms (especially single moms) can be very driven by guilt. It’s not good for you or your daughter. Reality is what it is. There isn’t a money tree and the bills have to be paid. Whenever people tell me that I should pay this or do that (my favorite is when they tell me in front of my teen that I should let him drive), I tell them when they pay my bills, they get some say. Either that, or I just offer to forward them the bills for the car insurance. They shut up pretty quickly. So if someone tells you you should cosign her loans, tell them you can’t but are they offering to do it? Because anyone can cosign-- not just a parent. I bet they will stop yammering.</p>
<p>2college is exactly right. Since none of these people will have to “live” with the results (from taking out loans), suggesting that “they” pay for these things will shut them up!</p>
<p>“Does it really affect a person’s career if someone wants to work in IR, but attends a lesser-known school as an undergraduate? Isn’t it more important to have excellent undergraduate grades and GRE scores, or does the brand-name of a school really affect grad school admissions?”</p>
<p>Another vote here for not allowing your daughter to take on debt. My daughter is in the process now of applying to grad school and she will graduate with two undergrad degrees with no debt. You are exactly spot on when your instinct tells you that her grades and GRE scores are more important than undergrad school name. In my daughter’s field of study, research experience and fit is the third component. I would agree with calmom that in your daughter’s field, internship, travel and language would be critical components.</p>
<p>One consideration is that many of the large state schools use stipends for international study as a recruiting tool so you may want to consider researching those types of opportunities, sometimes offered through the honors colleges. The experience gained at little or no cost would be so much more important than the fact that her degree is from a state university.</p>
<p>I’d also suggest since your daughter has a specific major in mind that you consider looking more closely at the individual program quality than the overall prestige of the school. There’s another thread you may want to take a look at currently talking about quality programs at lesser known schools.</p>
<p>OP, is your daughter interested in one particular area of the world? What is her language experience to date? There are 10 schools that get special federal dollars for being centers for Latin American Studies…they change around a little but University of Pittsburgh, COrnell, Wisconsin-Madison, Uof Florida, Tulane etc not only have top ranked LA studies programs but have extra dollars to help students with study abroad in the region. I believe there may be similar programs for the middle east, south asian, etc regions. I received money in grad school to study Portuguese and Quichua (a native american language spoken in parts of South America). I never took a loan out after I declared a major in Latin American studies… there are many programs to support graduate research abroad etc. Get her to do a little bit of research on her favorite areas of the world and identify top programs. A google search brought up a ll the latin american studies programs I mentioned above…</p>