<p>I've just skimmed this thread, but I want to reinforce what 07DAD said: "an insolvent parent [is] a dreadful burden on that child in later life." As an adult, I've felt that burden (and the worry that goes along with it) from my own parents (now just one of them) for many years. I don't want my son to have that experience. It's something very important to consider when making the financial decision about college.</p>
<p>you may be right maysixx..I looked at the school we visited yesterday online and found some cheap apartments which she could get cheaply nearby and buy her own food and not have to do the meal plan thing ay school...however...My hubby is vehemently opposed to her at 18 getting an apt he feels she is too young and he will be too worried about her safety and I have to say I cannot disagree with him on that...If she got some roomates in an apartment I would be fine with it but I dont know still if my hubby is willing to bend on this apt thing..We discussed it a while back and he said no way no how not until she is a junior...I dont know how I could convince him if maybe she had roommates would it be ok..especially if we are talking right off the campus...I guess I can work on him about it...</p>
<p>money isn't everything you know. I hate parents like this who care so much about their own finances that they are not even willing to fufill their child's future education. You have to sacerfice some things to give your daughter a meaningful education. Do you think your daughter will even think of you when you are in old age after knowing you denied her to do what she wanted to? I don't think so. </p>
<p>And also you just proved the fact that you are controling her. Please do not do this to her. You said she will end up like you, but how do you know that, you don't. It sounds like you dont even trust your own daughter. and also if you let her "do what she wants and she comes back and finds it was what YOU told her it would BE" that clearly shows that you are trying to shape her future. How is she ever going to learn if she is babied and controlled all her life? I mean if you clearly think you know your daughter and know what she wants, but in reality you only know what you want and you only want her to have what you think she wants. But you don't know. No one knows but herself. my parents try to tell me to go to UVA so I can be with my brother. I tell them yes i like uva but I have a chance to go to Stanford with a full ride. when they heard this, they immediately tried to tell me not to. they constantly ask me where I want to go and I just say UVA. But they have no idea that UVA is my number one choice unless I get a full ride to stanford.</p>
<p>you dont know how your daughter thinks. I dont, you dont , no one knows except her. I am not telling you to go up to her and say "do what you want". I am saying when she says I really want to do this, listen to her case, ask her why she wants to, what she will gain from it, what programs it has that others don't and from this you and her will learn whether she really is making an informed decision.</p>
<p>But go ahead, I think if you want to make her decisions by telling her what you think she wants, then go right ahead.</p>
<p>I know my parents would never think the way you do.</p>
<p>also what is her goal in life, have you asked her what her career goal is? who knows she could get an excellent job and may give back to you for supporting her desires. But know this, as she gets older she will think about her experiences, and if she begins to think the decisions her Mommy made thinking they were for her own good were terrible ones, you will be lucky if she even thinks of you when you are in your old age and unable to support yourself.</p>
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no I cant tell her to do whatever she wants unfortunately. I have been through college 3 times. I know the costs and the debt and I have it personally. I dont want her ending up like that bc I realize now I did not do what was financially practical. If I had never gone to college I probably would tell her to do what she wants go where she wants, live where she wants but in the end who do you think she will come to when what she thought she wanted is exactly what I told her it would be? That would be me of course. Im not scaring her, Im bringing her into reality. Money doesnt grow on trees.
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<p>OP--you are on the right track. There is another thread by a student whose parents encouraged him to take out loans (which they also signed) and promised support for the balance to get him into a certain school. </p>
<p>Now the parents cannot afford to make the promised support and it looks like the student is going to have to go to community college to continue his education. He hopes to be able to work and earn enough to get into a non-community college to finish, but resents that he now has a substantial debt from the original loans.</p>
<p>It is refreshing to see that you are willing to assess that you didn't make economically wise choices and are trying to help your daughter avoid making those same mistakes. Keep preaching reality to your daughter.</p>
<p>"money isn't everything you know. I hate parents like this who care so much about their own finances that they are not even willing to fufill their child's future education. You have to sacerfice some things to give your daughter a meaningful education. Do you think your daughter will even think of you when you are in old age after knowing you denied her to do what she wanted to? I don't think so. "</p>
<p>Puh-leaze! The parent is willing to give her child an education, and that in itself is not something any parent HAS to do. The parent simply isn't willing to give her child an education at a college that the parent feels the parent can not afford. </p>
<p>It's not babying and controlling the D to not send her to a college that the parents feel is too expensive for their budgets.</p>
<p>"Do you think your daughter will even think of you when you are in old age after knowing you denied her to do what she wanted to? I don't think so. "</p>
<p>Apparently you would treat your parents this way, and that doesn't reflect well on you.</p>
<p>"I know my parents would never think the way you do."</p>
<p>I can't help but wonder what they would think of your post.</p>
<p>I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond, but moviemania pushed my buttons. Some parents "care so much about finances" because they want to set a good example for their children--as in not living beyond their means and/or going into deep debt. The OP's issue is not what she wants for her child vs. what her child wants for herself. The issue is finances, which for many families is a very real issue.</p>
<p>"money isn't everything you know. I hate parents like this who care so much about their own finances that they are not even willing to fufill their child's future education. You have to sacerfice some things to give your daughter a meaningful education. Do you think your daughter will even think of you when you are in old age after knowing you denied her to do what she wanted to? I don't think so."</p>
<p>This has to be one of the most obnoxious posts that I have ever read on CC. Do you honestly believe that it's up to parents to buy the love of their kids? Hopefully when you go back and reread your post you'll realize just how terrible your response seems. It shows an enormous lack of character.</p>
<p>moviemania 101</p>
<p>how sad. </p>
<p>I wonder if your parents have tried to educate you on the realities and very real difficulties of obtaining high loans and the decade long consequences of paying high loans. Perhaps they've shielded you excessively. Perhaps you have no other siblings and have no practice at considering how to balance the needs of several on the means at hand. Perhaps you have no plans on supporting your parents in their retirement when you're trying to save for a home and support your own children and trying to hang onto a job!</p>
<p>In a million years I would never take out loans for my child's college education. First off, I'm 50, and probably would not be paying them back out of earnings, but instead out of my "retirement" (HA! given todays economy). Second, I would have to pay them back whether my child finished college or not. </p>
<p>Nor would I encourage my child to take out close to $150k in educational UNDERGRADUATE debt (let's just say $30k a year for 4 years, not even considering the yearly outlandish(!) tuition rise, based on the numbers you stated ($20k tuition + $10k room/board).</p>
<p>This is a tough conversation, and I hate to say it, but it's one that happens all over, and one that should have been had before sending out applications.</p>
<p>I had an exact $ amount that had been set aside to help my D with her college expenses. She's in a 5 year program, and knew going in how that $ was to be divvied up. Every month I remind her of the balance...I don't want her to lose sight. She works during the school year (in a yogurt shop, not some glamorous boutique, in NYC) and works 2 (or more) jobs during the summer. She's not getting an easy time of it. She'll have loans to pay off when she graduates, but so do most students. And it won't be $100k.</p>
<p>I don't envy you, but being honest is the best thing you can do.</p>
<p>I realize the obnoxious nature of moviemanias post towards me however I also realize he is a kid and does not have a firm grasp on reality as of yet. Movie when you are older and have been through life a little like the parents here have been you will understand. I made mistakes, I admit them. I dont want my daughter making my mistakes which is why i am trying to discourage her from going into deep debt to finance an education she can get at a public vs a private out of state school. I never once stated I was telling her she HAD to do this but rather we only have so much to give and the rest of the burden should she make the decision (if she can somehow manage to get the loans) will be on her. I am teaching my daughter to borrow responsibly..My parents never taught me that and I wish they had. They always said take the loans take the loans..Well movie when the classes are over and the diploma has been handed out and you are out in the real world you realize someone has to pay those loans back...I would be a bad parent if I told my daughter to get into 6 figure debt over an undergrad lower tiered private school. Thats not being a bad parent Movie, thats called loving and caring about your childs future</p>
<p>In the real world where most of us live and work, money is usually not available in unlimited quantities. Choosing a college is partly about finances, that's reality. Certainly by the time your son/daughter is a junior or senior in high school, they should recognize what your family is/is not able to financially afford. I call that being realistic and really has nothing to do with whether or not your love your children or some of the other bizarre comments I have read recently on this topic!!!!!</p>
<p>moviemania,</p>
<p>You're going to have a really hard time adjusting to life in the real world whenever you're let out of whatever bubble you're in at the moment...</p>
<p>"there is no monetary value on education and my parents have told me this, they said go anywhere I want as long as I am getting the best possible education(and I am fairly poor less than $50,000)"</p>
<p>moviemania, your parents can afford to say that because you probably qualify for financial aid at a level that many of us, MomfromPa included, do not. Those of us over a certain income, and it is not a wealthy income, are turned down for <em>any</em> amount of financial aid. We absolutely put a monetary value on education, because we have to pay full price for it. </p>
<p>Maybe I'm misinterpreting your post, but you seem to think that we parents are begrudging our children their perfect college because we are nothing more than selfish money hoarders.</p>
<p>""there is no monetary value on education and my parents have told me this, they said go anywhere I want as long as I am getting the best possible education(and I am fairly poor less than $50,000)""</p>
<p>IF what your parents mean is that you should do something like take out $40,000 or more in loans, then your parents' advice to you is very unwise. </p>
<p>There are people who took out large loans and found that decades after college, they were still paying those loans back, and due to the loans had restrictions on what jobs they could do, where they could live, etc.</p>
<p>Just because your family has a fairly low income doesn't mean that you'll get lots of need-based scholarships. The majority of colleges in this country can not meet the full financial need of low income students, and many colleges that do meet such needs, do so by giving very large loans.</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>"The lack of financial literacy in the US is appalling.">>>></p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>The lack of human sensitivity in your post is appalling.</p>
<p>Even if someone had a spare $120,000 in cash sitting in their bank account I still wouldn't recommend they spend $30k per year to attend a 'dream' school. They'll simply never see a return on investment for all that additional money over what one gets for spending far far less. </p>
<p>If, after financial aid, one still needs to shell out that much per year for a school then look elsewhere... period. </p>
<p>If you don't have the cash on hand then the amount of debt one would have to go into to pay the tuition fees amounts to financial suicide. If you do have the cash on hand, there are far better things to use if for than paying far more than you need to for a college degree.</p>
<p>I spoke with my hubby tonight in light of this post to see where we were with all of this. He estimates we can give our D 15K per year for college...The private school is 40K with 11K scholarship which leaves 30K a year. Assuming we give her the 15K she will have to get loans for the rest and provided no increase in tuition (not realistic) she will graduate 60K + in undergraduate debt. (Then she wants to go to law school..add another approx 75K if not more to that) OR she can go to one of the state schools she has been accepted into thus far at a cost of 15K for tuition AND room in board total. She would graduate with a debt of ZERO because we would still give her the 15K..So can anyone on here tell me that financially Im not doing whats best for her? Moviemania made me out to be an ogre so Im wondering what you all think</p>
<p>It is possible to do a FAFSA worksheet or calculator to get a ballpark "guestimate" of what kind of expected financial contribution would be expected of the family. I figured it would be similar to the one I tried filling out when our kids attended a private HS with lower tuition than college. When I completed the form & we milled it in, the estimated "contribution" was extremely high. The same with the FAFSA (in our case).
Others have mentioned that the FAFSA estmates have been accurate for them as well.</p>
<p>With that being the case, we have always been very upfront with our kids (as I believe benefits the entire family) that we did not have unlimited funds but could help finance their undergrad education as if they went to the local flagship U for 4 years, including dorming. That was all we originally budgetted for and realistically all we could afford.</p>
<p>We have worked closely with the college counselor at our HS & asked him honestly which schools were known for merit aid with kids who get very high SATs and S made his list of schools from those responses (provided they met his other criteria). The validictorian at their HS chose to apply to all of her dream schools & unfortunately assumed that since she was such an exemplary student & athlete, she would get appropriate merit aid. She was accepted everywhere but did not get nearly the merit aid they had hoped for & her family also didn't qualify for much/any need-based aid. She chose to attend flagship U with huge merit scholarships & save funds for med school which she intends to do afterwards. She & her family were bitterly surprised at the merit packages she was offered.</p>
<p>Her younger sister (not the val) applied more selectively & I believe was able to find a school that accepted her & offered her a more generous merit package that made the private school workable; don't think the younger one plans on med school.</p>
<p>We all have to make trade offs. It is dangerous to stretch ourselves too thin financially or otherwise because things happen--school takes more years than projected, travel expenses continue to rise, parent jobs & pensions fluctuate, health can vary. I too worry about families who optimistically assumed "everything would work out," and now have a pile of debt and the unenviable job of switching from one school to local CC because things did not work.</p>
<p>Our children do not need themselves or us to be saddled with crushing debt--that really serves no good purpose and mortgages our futures and theirs and the rest of the family's.</p>
<p>If she is set on Grad school, she should go to the school with no debt. I have friends struggling with 100k of debt and it isn't pretty. I had the choice between Stanford with alot of debt and USC with none. I picked 'SC and do not regret it at all. You just need to put it in terms your daughter can understand.</p>