<p>"I am upset to a degree I cnt give my kids everything they want but at least I know that I have tried.."</p>
<p>I don't see any reason to be upset at not being able to give your kids everything they want. Would you have wanted your kids to be spoiled brats like, for instance, Paris Hilton?</p>
<p>Not getting everything one wants builds character. After all, in life, no one gets everything they want even if they are multimillionaires. And someone who gets everything material that they want from their parents has no reason to develop a work ethic or strong character.</p>
<p>Wow. Some people are harsh. Yeah, some of us didn't know about taking our money out of stock if we needed it. So what? Maybe those people know something the condemners don't know.</p>
<p>How does it help to kick people when they're down?</p>
<p>My H's business lost $300K that he dealt with foolishly, and there went the money I'd saved for college. Instead of wringing my hands, my kids applied to a varied array of schools, including in state publics, but got great FA at their first choice schools.</p>
<p>We were very lucky, and my D is graduating, and I just paid her last tuition bill from cash flow. I have worked two jobs. So what?</p>
<p>I would still be very sympathetic to those not as lucky.</p>
<p>Knowing what to do when is a form of luck, too.</p>
<p>To the OP: IMHO your daughter does not have the grades or attitude to "entitle" her to her dream school. This is no criticism of you, or even of her, really. It sounds like she needs to do a bit of growing up (don't we all.) If she ends up at an instate public, I'm sure she will learn a lot and find a way to enjoy herself.</p>
<p>My kids did not have a car in high school. It doesn't sound like academics are her top priority. That's okay. She can still get an education.</p>
<p>I think Lurk Ness Monster mentions a good possibility in Pitt. I think it's a wonderful school and have heard all good things about it.</p>
<p>Good luck. Stay strong. You know you love her. Good luck with your own career.</p>
<p>Things do have a way of working out--sometimes in instrutable ways that prepare us for things we have no idea we will later encounter. "Luck" or "coincidences" play roles I don't understand, but when we are open to things and options, it is very freeing.</p>
<p>We have all personally had to make choices about finances, resources and futures. Making good choices jointly with our kids can strenthen our families and help our kids mature if we choose to let that happen.</p>
<p>I'm glad this is being discussed again. It's incumbent on parents to make time for that hard conversation about the affordability of education. I've seen too many threads on the college selection forum about "applying to 18 colleges" or "I'll only be happy in my first choice". Life just doesn't always work out like that. Even though I make a good wage and have been blessed with very bright children, with one in college and another about to head there we could not afford to pay for top schools. We were up front with them that finances were part of the consideration. And they were gracious enough to realize that.</p>
<p>"My kids did not have a car in high school. It doesn't sound like academics are her top priority. That's okay. She can still get an education."</p>
<p>Unfortunately where we live kids need a car to get anywhere. there is no public transportation where I am and without a car, she would literally be chained to the house as my hubby and I are not home much, we are always working and we both work an hour away in the city...Even the poorest kids here seem to have cars (crappy ones but cars nonetheless) No academics are not her top priority, they are important but unlike some on here they arent the end all do all and frankly I am glad to some extent she hasnt spent the last 4 years absolutely killing herself for the chance at an Ivy league school that she may have gotten rejected from or we may not have been able to afford. I see the things some of these kids go through on CC agonozing and killing themselves and well it seems to me many of them dont have time to be kids...Thats not the kind of life I would want for my daughter personally but hey, to each his own I suppose...She still has a rigorous courseload and she is very close to being an A student (one point under) so I hardly think she is a slacker to a high degree. ..She has a social life and that is important to her too.. She works 2 part time jobs to help pay for the car she wanted. I pay her insurance, she pays the car and gas..That was her decision to make..I gave her limits and if she didnt want to conform to them, she was on her own....Just like for college...If she wants massive debt she can go out of state..She will be paying for most of it not me..In the end I would almost guarantee she is at a state school come August and she will learn to like it...</p>
<p>Well over a year ago, BEFORE the stock market hit its high point and started tumbling, the subject of the financial aspect of college was in full play on CC. Some argued that borrowing for college was "worth it" to make sure that the student attending the "best" school possible or got to experience "the school of thier dreams."</p>
<p>Some argued that there should be a cost-benefit analysis used on these issues.</p>
<p>A few of us argued that the best gift a parent could give a child was to NOT go into debt or put the parents' retirement at risk to fund "the school of their dreams" since an insolvent parent was a dreadful burden on that child in later life. We argued that the students needed to make their choices within the framework of a financial commitment that the parents could make without putting the parents at risk. And, we argued the student should help pay for college through merit scholarships or actual monetary contributions to have a stake in the process.</p>
<p>Last year seems like a lifetime ago. How are those parents who went out on a limb assuming their jobs would continue, prices would remain the same, investments would not decline etc. etc. doing? It might benefit OP to hear whether those parents would now do it a different way.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Be honest about the $$ you can afford.
[/quote]
This goes two ways, of course. Remember that the fact that something is very expensive, and even more than you anticipated, is not the same as not being able to "afford" it. Parents need to have a really good idea of how much a range of schools will cost, what kind of need-based and/or merit based aid is offered and for which your kid will be eligible, and what levels of debt might be reasonable. In reading a lot of threads on this subject on CC, I have seen parents (in my opinion) go wrong in both directions: on one hand, going into unreasonable debt and privations to pay for the most expensive education, but on the other hand, refusing to take reasonable financial steps to help their kids get a good education, including manageable loans. Some parents are living in the past, when it was more possible for kids to work their way through top colleges, for example. Others have a philosphy that helping their kids too much weakens their character. Whatever your ideas are, you should get the facts, talk to guidance counselors and financial aid counselors, and finally, make sure you and your kids are on the same page so there will be no unpleasant surprises.</p>
<p>I think collegeboard just sent an email to seniors on this very issue. It can't be more than a week old. Ask your daughter if she can find it, if not, pm me and I can upload it.</p>
<p>To the OP- not having a college fund isn't quite child abuse so stop beating yourself up.</p>
<p>I have observed that kids manage to figure things out if given enough information and then the support to make mature decisions. Your job is to make sure that she knows enough about the family finances to ascertain whether or not she will qualify for need based aid at a particular school, and if that amount of aid will make the school affordable for all of you. Your job is to help her understand what X amount of loans means in terms of lifestyle, length of payment, etc. Your job is to give her perspective on what other things cost, i.e. 'we pay X dollars a month for health insurance, which is why it only costs you $15 to visit the doctor and $10 to fill a prescription." It's also your job to help her understand what her car insurance will cost next year and the tradeoffs, i.e. higher deductible, lower premium, etc.</p>
<p>It's her job to then come up with a plan for college that meets her needs and is workable for the family. I suspect (and I mean this respectfully) that due to the hardships and sacrifices you've made as a family, that you and your husband have been happy not to involve your D in a lot of financial planning discussions. Now, however- she's got an inflated sense of what you can afford, and doesn't really understand how a paycheck gets eaten up by food, health insurance, utilities, etc.</p>
<p>Not too late to involve her in being part of the solution, not part of the problem. </p>
<p>I would also encourage you not to project your own dislike of dorm living onto your D. She may hate it; she may love it; but as long as she's in a school that meets her academic needs and is affordable, I don't think it's fair for you to plant in her head the idea that living at home is the way to go. Many kids find dorm life to be the best part of college. Yours may or may not, but if you continue to remind her that she's better off in her spacious room with privacy at home, she may prematurely close off some great options that would involve dorm living.</p>
<p>Kids who commute long distances miss out on a lot more than the dorms, by the way- there are musical performances and clubs and debates and interesting programs going on every night of the week at many campuses, and if she's anxious to beat the traffic every day after her 4 pm class ends, she'll be missing out on all those things as well. Plus the social connections.</p>
<p>I agree with most of what you said blossom and as I stated she is the one who told me from day one she did not want to have a roommate...I am not clear why everyone keeps bringing up this dorm thing but I have now reiterated several times it is up to her to make the decision. She has asked me about dorm life and I dont sugar coat it I tell her how it was for me (Not everyone but me personally). She is old enough to see for herself when she walks into the small rooms at the schools we visited (and granted many have nice living facilities but all we have seen are concrete block 2 x 4 rooms in every school we have gone to so far) and sees the one bathroom for upteen people what it may be like and she is not happy about the prospects..But it is what it is..Like I said some kids may like this environment some may not and its MY belief (yes again i said MY belief) my kid will not go for this. At no time did I tell her she could not live in a dorm..She wants an apartment..Thats not happening...so she will either live home or in a dorm..I dont discourage her at all and she is free to test it out if she finds an affordable situation she feels she will be happy with.</p>
<p>As for the campus activities well I have told her she has to get involved or she will end up unhappy..She knows that but she says that if she has to commute she has her life here and isnt so worried about missing campus activities..Again, thats all up to her...I cant make her get involved in social activities on campus I can only tel her if she doesnt she may miss out..</p>
<p>I am a proponent of a combination of a realistic understandings of possible parental contributions and casting a wide net. As mentioned previously, some privates can end up being more affordable than some states. So it is fine to apply to a variety of schools, as long as the student understands (REALLY understands) that the final decision will be greatly influenced by financial considerations.</p>
<p>indeed mafool and she has applied to public and private in and out of state. We wont know the extent of anything until the FAFSA is filed, the school is chosen and we see where we are..I am however aware that certain choices will be unreachable pretty much no matter what...</p>
<p>yea so just wait for FAFSA, who knows you may get a large grant, and also there are those loans the gov gives, what my dad does is he takes all the loans(the no interest ones by the gov) he can, and instead of paying the tuition with his own money, he uses the loan the gov gives. He then puts the money he DOES have into a CD account and racks up interest, so at the end when he does have to pay it back, he will have more than before, lol its confusing to explain buts its pretty smart on his part i admit.</p>
<p>and did your D not talk to you about the schools she was applying to? she should have and so you could have looked at the financial pacakges that college usually gives, so instead of denying her want to attend the school, you could have simply told her before she applied that it would cost too much. </p>
<p>also if social life is important to her, let her live in the dorm, dont let your experiences hiinder her from experiencing the first year of college, I mean sure tell her, but dont let ur bad experiences keep her from having a memorable college experience. My brother last year told me the amazing experiences he has at college(UVA) last year. I am looking forward to the close nit community that is there to help each other. So if "social life is important to her" then let her live on campus and thrive in the social life that is often connected with college. To me it seems you are making all the decisions for her. In AP statistics, what you have done(telling her about ur bad college experiences, scaring her about the debt), we like to call response bias. Of course is not gonna attend the school she wants after hearing you almost threaten her with the cost factor, and she is definately gonna live at home after hearing you moan and groan about your misery. lol, just let her do her thing. If you truly want her to thrive, stop sheltering her(telling her to live in her coozy room at home with you) and just tell her to do whatever she likes.</p>
<p>Also is the education reputable compared to other public schools(like is it the university of penn.) cause if it is then by all means let her go, i see it as this, there is no monetary value on education and my parents have told me this, they said go anywhere I want as long as I am getting the best possible education(and I am fairly poor less than $50,000)</p>
<p>As your daughter is looking at schools, remember to factor in travel costs. Those can really add up. Most people go to college within 250 miles of their homes for good reason.</p>
<p>yes I have thought about travel costs. She will be taking her car and thats her travel costs...gas and mantenance...The only school she applied to which she would have to fly is in Florida and the RT air is cheap...Everywhere else she can drive of course, some are farther than others. She would only be coming home on breaks if she is father then a couple hundred miles so thats oddly not a real concern of mine...I also have frequent flier miles which would cover some of her airfares if she needed them...</p>
<p>I appreciate your point of view moviemania but no I cant tell her to do whatever she wants unfortunately. I have been through college 3 times. I know the costs and the debt and I have it personally. I dont want her ending up like that bc I realize now I did not do what was financially practical. If I had never gone to college I probably would tell her to do what she wants go where she wants, live where she wants but in the end who do you think she will come to when what she thought she wanted is exactly what I told her it would be? That would be me of course. Im not scaring her, Im bringing her into reality. Money doesnt grow on trees. She has always gotten most things she wanted..not all but a lot of what she wanted. Its time for her to learn life isnt always like that and things happen which we dont plan as you are young and will learn. Im not addressing the dorm thing again as I have stated my feelings on that ad nauesum...</p>