My daughter does not want to pay back her college loans

Parents Forum
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<p>Chevda said
[quote]
And if that were true, why all this fuss about good high schools, public or private? Maybe we should all just live in the cheapest areas we can find and send our kids to failing schools - they'll do fine; after all it's the kid not the school. Bilgewater.

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<p>Absolutely true. In fact, why don't we send our smart, articulate four-year-olds off to underfunded, overcrowded, badly staffed daycare, because they're smart and they'll do fine defending themselves and learning how to survive the streets.</p>

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<p>We can all agree that OP may not have followed the most prudent course of action. Why does that lead to attacks on her value system? We all do silly things, or things based on hope. To solve poster's problem expert financial advice is in order. Beyond that, this decision was already made for reasons some of us can understand, other can't. I can.</p>

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<p>Stafford and Perkins loans are student only loans...no parent co-signer. It sounds to me like you may have taken a private loan. If you are the co-signer, you are AS responsible for the repayment of these loans as your daughter.</p>

<p>Re: health insurance. Tell her to get a job at Starbucks. They have excellent health insurance for anyone who reliably works for them more than 20 hours a week.</p>

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<p>I would assume that a young adult-
as an 18 year old is, has accumulated skills and knowledge through their lifetime that allows them to adapt to different circumstances. Even if transitions are still difficult, the strategies that are learned by adjusting to their environment/adapting it to their needs, are ones that can be used elsewhere.</p>

<p>*
In fact, why don't we send our smart, articulate four-year-olds off to underfunded, overcrowded, badly staffed daycare, because they're smart and they'll do fine defending themselves and learning how to survive the streets.*</p>

<p>Only 1 in 3 high school freshman graduate from high school in my state- so the numbers of students who even go on to college isn't really that large- arguing that an accomplished young adult attending a state university is the equivalent of a 4 year old attending a failing school is hyperbole.</p>

<p>Why the OP chose to ask for critical financial advice from a message board rather than asking the lender is anyones guess. Why she chose to include information that painted the student as having a history of instability but reacted strongly when replies included that information in their responses, indicates a lack of perspective.</p>

<p>If all she really wanted was advice on paying back the loan- and she is familiar with CC, why not post this on the financial aid board- asking
" My child is unable at this time to pay back a private loan which is coming due- I am the co-signer- what steps do I take, in order to transfer the debt?"
Statements about the younger son applying to MIT as the "pride and Joy", about the older daughter as going "ballistic" are really superfluous to the steps to take to transfer payments of the loan.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
arguing that an accomplished young adult attending a state university is the equivalent of a 4 year old attending a failing school is hyperbole.

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<p>ah, come on now, surely you didn't read this as EQUATING the two. The point is, we love our families and want to help them throughout their lives. The OP is in a financial bind because she did what she could to help her daughter. I could see myself in a similar spot if my fragile elderly parents need expensive care. None of us deserve your contempt or criticism for doing our best.</p>

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<p>celloguy,
I think what we're seeing is the reaction to an attitude of "nothing except a $45K a year private university with inadequate FA and gigantic loans will do. Not honors programs at large universities, not sub-top 10 privates with merit scholarships, not anything...except the $45K a year private university."</p>

<p>Anyone reading CC for any amount of time will see that there are so many excellent options for a fantastic education out there that does not necessitate sacrificing your financial stability. People keep reminding everyone of this out of concern, not contempt. No one wants to see someone get themselves into trouble when there are alternatives. They just are using this scenario to illustrate that point.</p>

<p>I misread the original post, I inferred that the because parents were concerned about their credit if the daughter defaulted, that meant that the parents were not willing to step in. The word defaulted caught me, because I thought by definition as long as someone writes a check it's not a default.</p>

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<p>doubleplay: I agree with you in most circumstances, but not in all. I did fine at a public that doesn't even have a rep. (SUNY Stony Brook), and I think my son would adapt. My daughter would adapt too, but she desperately wanted to live in NYC. Yes, CUNY schools were a possibility, but they have no dorming or campus life. Could she have done it? Yes. She would NOT have carried on and guilted me into making a financially disasterous decision, but she would not have become the person she is now. Not a tragedy, I know, but something to be sad about.</p>

<p>I would definitely choose UNC over Duke if there were financial considerations involved, and Cal over Stanford if finances dictated, but not all decisions are that easy. There are some fantastic opportunities as you have pointed out, but there are situations that money dictates a less than ideal solution. Again, for most, not a tragedy. For some, perhaps a small some, it would make a significant difference. This is then an agonizing choice.</p>

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<p>And for those of us with less-than-stellar state schools, the choices are less clear. The OOS tuition plus travel costs can easily add up, making an excellent public institution as costly as some privates.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If all she really wanted was advice on paying back the loan- and she is familiar with CC, why not post this on the financial aid board- asking
" My child is unable at this time to pay back a private loan which is coming due- I am the co-signer- what steps do I take, in order to transfer the debt?"
Statements about the younger son applying to MIT as the "pride and Joy", about the older daughter as going "ballistic" are really superfluous to the steps to take to transfer payments of the loan.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, I was curious about all of the excess information and then "all I really wanted was financial advice". I think in some ways the OP was using the thread to vent, not just get money counseling. But hey, that's cool, too. </p>

<p>Although now the thread has kinda warped away from any shred of the original topic and I wonder if the OP is even still following.</p>

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<p>CUNY/Hunter has a dorm</p>

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<p>
[quote]
We can all agree that OP may not have followed the most prudent course of action. Why does that lead to attacks on her value system? We all do silly things, or things based on hope. To solve poster's problem expert financial advice is in order. Beyond that, this decision was already made for reasons some of us can understand, other can't. I can.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Agree. Every parent gets distressed when his or her child is unhappy; every parent wants to make that child happy; every parent hopes that his or her child will outgrow his emotional problems; every parent wants to give his or her child a second chance. Or a third chance, or fourth chance.</p>

<p>I think that the OP's decision was totally understandable. Anyway, it's all water under the bridge.</p>

232

<p>Prudence....ahhhhh...if only prudence were an easy option in the face of mental illness.</p>

<p>The OP has never mentioned the illness, but I am going to pretend the illness is bipolar illness.</p>

<p>Bipolar illness is devastating for the entire family. When it strikes an unusually bright individual, it takes ages and ages for the individual and their families to accept the diagnosis--and the limitations. I reckon it took my brother twelve years to accept the limitations of his severe illness. I reckon it took my parents (and me) at least ten years to accept his vastly diminished future.
Why does it take so long? Partly because human instinct falsely tells us that the ill person is as capable as we are. This is a terrible falsehood--but it is very difficult to counter. My brother was on the hospital doorstep six times before we learned to read the onset of mania correctly. (Mania can appear to be a good thing--especially to a group of highly ambitious people. Hey! He wants to change the world! Fantastic!) As ill as he was, he made it through university. He married a stunning woman. It all turned to custard before he was thirty but before thirty? His brilliance carried him farther than any doctor thought possible--despite three hospitalizations.</p>

<p>My brother was also beyond furious with my parents for a decade. Why? He couldn't move beyond basic parent-child concepts. "I'm sick! I don't want to be sick! Fix me!" He even signed up for al-anon meetings so he could tear into my parents in public. (They are non-drinkers). My poor parents. What they wouldn't give to 'fix' their darling, darling boy. As it is, they will go to their graves worrying about his well-being.</p>

<p>Eventually, my brother ended up on disability. I'm not sure what happens to financial obligations under disability. That could be worth an investigation. mini probably knows. </p>

<p>It also might be worth a frank chat with the lender about your daughter's worsening condition. If the lender is your banker, you might receive more grace than expected. Also, if her condition is worsening, consider finding another psychiatrist and therapist. My brother spent fifteen fruitless years in analytical therapy. It was only in cognitive therapy (coping training) that he gained stability and steady employment.</p>

<p>Anyway, perhaps your non-illness 'loan' post is actually about the heavy heavy reality of your daughter's illness--and the long-term implications of that illness. If so, cyber hugs to you and everyone in your family. I hope you discover that you are stronger than you know. I also hope the money will sort itself out.</p>

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<p>I'm not sure what the question here really is, and motherwise hasn't posted for several pages. I assume it is financial rather than medical. Originally, she says that she and H tried to explain the consequences of the debt to D, which made me think it was D's loan. Then she later says that D hates her because she is expected to help out with the loans, which makes me think it was parental loans. Or maybe it was both?</p>

<p>Anyway, I really think that everything depends on (1) whose loans they are, (2) how debilitated D is vs how much is just D would just rather have the apartment than make the loan payments, and finally (3) how hard a line motherwise and H are willing or able to take.</p>

<p>I know it is difficult because I am an old "softie" too. Maybe D's physician or therapist can offer advice on what D can reasonably be expected to do?</p>

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<p>I agree that the dr should have an opinion on what is expected- however perhaps the dr should have been consulted re the feasibility of completing education at a rigorous college.</p>

<p>I am not an old softie- my social/economic class doesn't have that luxury.
We dont have the financial resources to take on our kids expenses or debt. Even if our kids have ongoing medical issues, if they are adults, they are expected to deal with it themselves, as after college graduation, they are no longer eligible for medical ins with the family.</p>

<p>Sure it is tough- I hate seeing that my daughter is still wearing shoes she wore in high school even though she graduated 7 years ago, and I hate knowing she has no medical insurance and hasn't had her eyes/teeth checked since she graduated from college. She was on medications, but they were more than $180 a month, so she isn't on it anymore.
She is still paying on her school loans however, and perhaps that is why I am appalled when I read about a parent who signed for a loan despite her better judgment and allowed her daughter to attend her first choice school because she was manipulated by tears.</p>

<p>I expect from passive aggressive comments that the parent has made, that the daughters selfish and immature ( mothers words) tendencies have been reinforced by giving into her when ever she indicates that she might be made a little uncomfortable if she doesn't get her way.
Being a spoiled child is learned behavior, and while therapists are apparently making money off of the dysfunction- having one person as the scapegoat may have suited this families need, unfortunately, they have found it isn't so easy to change when you want to.</p>

<p>Since government loans dont require a cosigner- and the top 10 LACs meet 100% of need, I expect that the EFC is high enough that the family was expected to pay more than they could afford being that the OP stated they had weighty financial obligations.</p>

<p>The daughter may be feeling that her having to take out a private loan, for money that the school expected her parents to come up with, should be her parents responsiblity.</p>

<p>If the parents knew they did not want to be responsible for the additional debt and if they knew that she had several other options as stated in the first post, of full ride at honors colleges at universities which must have been attractive enough to apply to in the first place-why did they co sign the loan?</p>

<p>Why only now ask " what will their daughter learn if they take over the debt?"</p>

<p>Better late than never I suppose, to question how parenting practices have affected her behavior.</p>

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<p>If you read her posts, the OP said her daughter has a chronic illness--an illness which she suggests is neurological, rather than physical.</p>

<p>The OP also stated that her daughter's seems unable to get a good paying job. She said she has raging temper tantrums.</p>

<p>All of these statements point to significant mental illness--an illness that might preclude education at a large university perhaps.</p>

<p>However, without the details, posters cannot know the OP--or judge her parenting of a significantly ill daughter. </p>

<p>The title of the thread is misleading. It should perhaps read as "My Mentally Ill Daughter May Not Be Able to Pay her School Loan".</p>

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<p>cheers,
That is true, I hadn't thought about it that way. The stuff about "what will she learn if we pay her debt for her" (my words, not OP), threw my thoughts into the realm of "well, you need to just teach her a lesson!" I need to keep in mind the "until you walk in the shoes of others..." lesson.</p>

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<p>I would never assume that:
Lack of good paying job + Temper tantrums = Mental illness</p>

<p>In fact, unless some illness was mentioned, it wouldn't even occur to me because there are lots of ill-tempered people without high paying jobs.</p>

<p>And I agree with cheers about the thread title. As it is, it sounds like a conscious decision of kid who doesn't want to pay the piper. If she if functionally unable to secure employment, that is a different story. And if D is really mentally ill, it would be no time to try to teach her a lesson. I'm really sorry for motherwise. It's a tough decision either way.</p>

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<p>I skimmed, so I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I would be VERY concerned about her moving to her own place if you suspect/know that she is not stable-- not to mention it would be money down the drain. </p>

<p>Assuming she can hold a job, my approach would be:</p>

<p>(1) have her get a job, pronto, preferably one with health insurance. Really ANY job-- pitch it as a temporary thing; she can always upgrade the job later if something better presents itself. It may help her just to get into a purposeful routine rather than lying around the house. </p>

<p>(2) determine a reasonable % of her after-tax income for her to devote to paying the debt. (If you can set up auto debit do it.) Maybe start it out a low-ish % (? 25-30%) & give her several months at that level, then bump it up a bit higher in the next several months. Figure into this calculation whether or not there is health insurance offered by her job and also consider her total income. But leave enough for her that it feels like she's working for something tangible for her. </p>

<p>By allowing her to keep at least some of her income, she'll have more incentive to work. There must be some stuff she wants to buy, or save up for? </p>

<p>If my choices were "slave away and see none of it" vs. "lie around and mom will cover it," I might be tempted to lie around too. The % system creates a third option: "slave and get some things I want in addition to paying off some of the loans."</p>

<p>(3) See about deferrals of payments-- but still do #2, even if the payments are successfully deferred. She can "pay it forward" into a savings account. Then YOU'LL have a cushion for later, when the official repayments actually begin. This savings account must be in your name!</p>

<p>None of us can know your exact situation. I really empathize with how hard it must be on you. These ideas may not fit for you; it is just my instinct as to an approach.</p>

<p>I echo blossom's earlier comments, too. I am paying 2x the price of our state school for my D to be at a LAC. With her learning style and personality, we felt it was a much better place for her to really learn, come out of her shell, and thrive. </p>

<p>Disregarding rank all together, a small LAC environment is quite different from a State U. There is the whole "nurturing" angle, and a parent of a fragile kid would surely consider this a plus. So Beloit can be better, for some kids, than Berkeley-- even though Berkeley is more "prestige."</p>

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<p>this is in response to speculation regarding repayment of student loans if a person is on disability. I was peripheral participant in a similar situation where someone was diagnosed with a serious illness and had mountains of federally funded and private student loans. Before the recent change in bankruptcy law people could claim private student loans in a bankruptcy case. Now, they are protected just as federally funded student loans are. The patient's family retained a well know team of attorneys and at the end of everything the loans still have to be paid back. The debt is not affected ability to receive disability benefits or Medicaid - but it affects everything else. Oh, and when they went to court the judge cited the only precedent of someone being forgiven student loan debt was a patient who had AIDS. That case ended up being reversed since the patient reverted back to HIV status. It would be interesting to see if there were any precedent setting cases regarding student loan repayments being deferred indefinitely or forgiven.</p>

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<p>this is in response to speculation regarding repayment of student loans if a person is on disability. I was peripheral participant in a similar situation where someone was diagnosed with a serious illness and had mountains of federally funded and private student loans. Before the recent change in bankruptcy law people could claim private student loans in a bankruptcy case. Now, they are protected just as federally funded student loans are. The patient's family retained a well know team of attorneys and at the end of everything the loans still have to be paid back. The debt is not affected ability to receive disability benefits or Medicaid - but it affects everything else. Oh, and when they went to court the judge cited the only precedent of someone being forgiven student loan debt was a patient who had AIDS. That case ended up being reversed since the patient reverted back to HIV status. It would be interesting to see if there were any precedent setting cases regarding student loan repayments being deferred indefinitely or forgiven.</p>